Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Dec 27, 2021 18:11:59 GMT
Only TII, Belzec, Sobibor and Chelmno had large areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains, where most of the rest of the camp had also been demolished and much of it buried or removed. So the graves at Belsen in the photo did not disturb the ground? Of course the Soviet shelling of Treblinka might have something to do with disturbed earth. Those bombs do set of quite a shock wave in marshy land a few metres above the water table. Yes, the digging of mass graves at Belsen disturbed the ground. Those mass graves contain whole bodies, not cremated remains. |
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Venatแปr
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Post by Venatแปr on Dec 27, 2021 18:17:43 GMT
Yes, the digging of mass graves at Belsen disturbed the ground. Those mass graves contain whole bodies, not cremated remains. The burning pit at Birkenau, that would have disturbed ground as well. You know the one where spaghetti girl is. That is not a large enough area then? perhaps it was just a rubbish pit. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Dec 27, 2021 18:21:15 GMT
Yes, the digging of mass graves at Belsen disturbed the ground. Those mass graves contain whole bodies, not cremated remains. The burning pit at Birkenau, that would have disturbed ground as well. You know the one where spaghetti girl is. That is not a large enough area then? perhaps it was just a rubbish pit. AFAIK, that area has never been surveyed to establish what is there. Kremas IV and V were demolished, which is another example of the Nazis trying to destroy evidence. |
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Post by Venatแปr on Dec 27, 2021 18:38:53 GMT
AFAIK, that area has never been surveyed to establish what is there. Kremas IV and V were demolished, which is another example of the Nazis trying to destroy evidence. Interesting as it is, the demolishion of anything is off topic and so is the intent. The large pit was away from the Krema. There were apparently other mass graves and pits in the area of the AB complex. Benjamin Lesser said: I am not interested in the Kebabs but the pits; there were apparently thousands of bodies buried. I am not interested in the impossibility of burning in pits; the Treblinka grate is more feasible than pit burning. On this basis your statement that only some AR camps had ground disturbances of significance is wrong. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Dec 27, 2021 20:09:08 GMT
... On this basis your statement that only some AR camps had ground disturbances of significance is wrong. You have misrepresented what I said. |
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Post by Turnagain on Dec 27, 2021 20:16:02 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Mattogno is quoting from Lukaszkiewcz's report. Lukaszkiewcz offered NO proof of what he claimed to have found beyond his report stating, "I found this". No samples, no photos, no lab tests and reports, no nada. He also claimed that the mass graves that were supposedly dug at Treblinka no longer existed. Nessie is apparently trying to palm Lukaszkiewcz's report off as a direct quote from Mattogno.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Dec 28, 2021 10:51:33 GMT
Nessie wrote: Mattogno is quoting from Lukaszkiewcz's report. Lukaszkiewcz offered NO proof of what he claimed to have found beyond his report stating, "I found this". No samples, no photos, no lab tests and reports, no nada. He also claimed that the mass graves that were supposedly dug at Treblinka no longer existed. Nessie is apparently trying to palm Lukaszkiewcz's report off as a direct quote from Mattogno.
I have not seen Lukaszkiewcz's original report, neither have you, to know exactly what it contains. His finds are corroborated by photos that were taken of the site, including the aerial photo of 1944 and the Kurt Franz photos of 1943, along with witnesses and the later archaeological/geophysical survey, so it is proved the Nazis were digging there. You are dishonestly misrepresenting what he said about the mass graves, to make it appear instead of mass graves he found undisturbed ground. Instead of mass graves, he found disturbed ground full of cremated human remains.
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Post by Turnagain on Dec 28, 2021 19:22:38 GMT
I've read Lukaszkiewcz's report to the IMT. In it he states that the mass graves at Treblinka no longer exist. He found some graves with human remains and some other sections of earth that smelled bad. Your "disturbed ground" mantra is just plain bullshit.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Dec 28, 2021 20:36:22 GMT
I've read Lukaszkiewcz's report to the IMT. In it he states that the mass graves at Treblinka no longer exist. He found some graves with human remains and some other sections of earth that smelled bad. Your "disturbed ground" mantra is just plain bullshit. The report stated;
"The Examining Judge The State Attorney
ลukaszkiewicz Maciejewski
Decision:
The Examining Judge of Siedlce, on November 13, 1945, rules in consideration of the fact that with great probability no mass graves are any longer to be found on the grounds of the former camp today, as is to be concluded from the witness testimonies examined so far and from the results of the works carried out at the site..."
Going by the rest of the report, his conclusion is that further excavations would just find more and more disturbed ground containing cremated remains, the areas that contained human remains and smelled, and that the original mass graves containing bodies had all been exhumed and the bodies burned.
The report describes what was found, where the mass graves had been located;
"Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition.[[208]] The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay."
That is exactly what anyone would expect to find, when mass graves are exhumed and the bodies are cremated.
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Post by Turnagain on Dec 28, 2021 20:49:07 GMT
Nessie claims that pits allegedly 30-40 feet deep just up and disappeared. Yup, you heard it right, folks, they just vanished. If you believe that I've got this here bridge I'll sell real cheap.
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Post by Agandaur on Dec 28, 2021 21:11:01 GMT
Nessie claims that pits allegedly 30-40 feet deep just up and disappeared. Yup, you heard it right, folks, they just vanished. If you believe that I've got this here bridge I'll sell real cheap. 10m deep graves would be well in the water table of this flat marshy ground. It was only a few km from the Bug River which accounts for the sandy silt soil. Interesting quote below: Does numerous mean 800 K + remains. These could well be the oldies popped off and the dead arriving on the trains. |
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Dec 29, 2021 9:21:37 GMT
Nessie claims that pits allegedly 30-40 feet deep just up and disappeared. Yup, you heard it right, folks, they just vanished. If you believe that I've got this here bridge I'll sell real cheap. That is not true and you know it is not true. The following is my actual argument, which you cannot cope with, so you make up what is called a strawman version, which is part of your reliance on logical fallacies.
In 1942, at TII camp, rectangular pits are dug and filled with corpses, and then in 1943 those pits are dug into to get at as many of those corpses as possible, which will leave a more irregular shape of disturbed ground. It will still be rectangular, but not the neat shape it was before. Those corpses are cremated and the cremains are buried back into the ground, but to make the ground flat, more earth is needed and the cremains are mixed in with that earth. When the Nazis left the AR camps in 1943, they left various irregular shaped rectilinear areas of disturbed earth.
In 1944, the grave robbing started. Soviet troops and Polish locals had heard about Jews swallowing valuables, which were then buried and cremated with them and in those desperate times, the site was excavated. Those excavations were haphazard and included the use of explosives. The Polish authorities who investigated the site in 1945 found huge craters, up to 7m deep, caused by the grave robbing. Photos of the site show something more like the bombed out trenches of WWI. The rectilinear graves are now even more disturbed with other ground disturbances around and adjoining them.
The grave robbing continues, until the mid 1960s, when the Polish authorities agree to the building of a memorial, consisting of a large concreted over area, which will stop digging. The site is a mess, with human remains visible, so that is cleared up and those remains reburied, which creates even more ground disturbances.
Demands to be shown rectangular original graves are now impossible to achieve, because of the amount of disturbance to those graves and the site in general and that so much of it has been covered over. You cannot argue against that, so you make a false and childish claim that I say the original graves have vanished.
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Post by Turnagain on Dec 31, 2021 13:49:22 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Rajchman testified that there were eleven graves that were approximately 12 meters deep. There were seven graves that were 50 meters long and four more that were larger with one capable of containing 250,000 cadavers. Nessie claims that all rectangular aspects of the graves have been obliterated by the Germans exhuming cadaver and by grave robbers using both hand tools and explosives. He claims that a 7 meter pit was discovered by investigators.
Has anyone ever heard a more pitiful excuse for why no rectangular graves can be discovered? The graves covered at least 1,500 square meters and every inch of that was excavated down to a depth of 12 meters (39 feet) by the Germans exhuming cadavers and by the efforts of the grave robbers. Nessie's absurdities achieve a new high (low?).
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Dec 31, 2021 16:46:53 GMT
Nessie wrote: Rajchman testified that there were eleven graves that were approximately 12 meters deep. There were seven graves that were 50 meters long and four more that were larger with one capable of containing 250,000 cadavers. Nessie claims that all rectangular aspects of the graves have been obliterated by the Germans exhuming cadaver and by grave robbers using both hand tools and explosives. He claims that a 7 meter pit was discovered by investigators. Has anyone ever heard a more pitiful excuse for why no rectangular graves can be discovered? The graves covered at least 1,500 square meters and every inch of that was excavated down to a depth of 12 meters (39 feet) by the Germans exhuming cadavers and by the efforts of the grave robbers. Nessie's absurdities achieve a new high (low?). I have not said that "all aspects" have been "obliterated"
"but several larger pits were recorded in areas suggested by witnesses as the locations of mass graves and cremation sites.
One is 26m long, 17m wide and at least four metres deep, with a ramp at the west end and a vertical edge to the east.
Another five pits of varying sizes and also at least this deep are located nearby. Given their size and location, there is a strong case for arguing that they represent burial areas."
Why do you say the Nazis dug pits that size at TII? Show your evidence to back up your claims.
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Post by Ulios on Dec 31, 2021 17:37:05 GMT
Why do you say the Nazis dug pits that size at TII? Show your evidence to back up your claims. That evidence has been given in the past, please stop asking for endless repeats. It appears there is a morphing attempt so that the SC graves become the norm, not what was reported by the eye witnesses. |
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