Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Dec 12, 2021 17:55:27 GMT
Yes! An excellent summarisation of this personโs approach. It is also pretty much sums up the approach that all the other H-believers and defenders employ: STEP 1: First believe. STEP 2: Then select the โfactsโ and โevidenceโ to fit the belief. STEP 3: Then filter out any awareness of the numerous contradictions, physical impossibilities, and conflicting evidence, etc., that could disturb the belief. STEP 4: Finally protect the belief with a pre-emptive attack on any dissenters or doubters of the belief, using threat of ad hominem smears, ostracisation, career-destruction, prison time and/or physical violence. This following reply confirms the irrational, belief-driven modus operandi explained above. Viz. the person starts from a position of unassailable belief in the infallible nature of the H narrative. Then all โevidenceโ is either accepted, rejected or twisted to fit that belief. This faithful โbelieverโ was asked this: Here is the reply: This is illogical, religious type of thinking. He believes something happened, so even if he canโt explain how it happened, he canโt even consider the possibility that maybe it didnโt happen. It is logical to believe mass graves were dug, when multiple witnesses state mass graves were dug and the archaeological and geophysical evidence finds large areas of disturbed ground, where the witnesses say the mass graves were dug.
The reason why the archaeological finds do not match the witness claims of rectangular graves, so meters long, wide and deep is also logically and evidentially explained. There is evidence the Nazis did as much as they could to hide the original mass graves, by exhuming bodies, cremating them and reburying them, not necessarily in the original mass graves, as they buried rubbish and demolished buildings and buried them as well in 1943. Then the sites were subjected to sustained grave robbing, lover the next 20 or so years, and including the use of explosives. That mixed up the ground even more. Then, to stop the grave robbing, in the 1960s, the sites were memorialised, which meant gathering up any exposed remains, and reburying them and then building memorials, the biggest of which was at TII, to cover as much of the grave area as possible.
The modern day archaeological digs that started in the late 1990s at Belzec, and then in the 2010s at Sobibor and TII, found, around the memorials, large areas of mostly ill-defined disturbed ground, consistent with all of the disturbances going back to 1943. The exception is Chelmno, where the forest burial site, was left, post war, largely undisturbed, with little grave robbing and a small memorial, and the areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains, are pretty much as the original graves were.
It is perfectly reasonable to accept the evidence of the use of excavators to dig mass graves, without knowing the make, model and type of those excavators. It is an illogical argument to claim that since the make, model and type is unknown, therefore those excavators did not exist and are magical.
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Nessie
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๐๐๐ง๐๐ซ๐๐๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ฌ ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ท๐๐ฑ๐ถ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ผ๐ฟ (Nessies forum)
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Post by Nessie on Dec 12, 2021 17:57:56 GMT
There were reports of explosives used at the camp by grave robbers and craters were found. It was used as an artillery range. The use of explosives is evidenced by the Polish 1945 report finding of craters, the post war photos of the site and the later day geophysical survey. No wonder nice neatly outlined rectangular mass graves were not found. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Dec 12, 2021 19:20:59 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Yup, all those mass graves just up and disappeared. Vanished without a trace. Gone like the wind. Suuuuure, that's the ticket. The entire 13 hectares got blown up/dug up down to a depth of 30-40 feet. Anything can happen in holyhoax la-la land.
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Nessie
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๐๐๐ง๐๐ซ๐๐๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ฌ ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ท๐๐ฑ๐ถ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ผ๐ฟ (Nessies forum)
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Post by Nessie on Dec 13, 2021 10:54:20 GMT
Nessie wrote: Yup, all those mass graves just up and disappeared. Vanished without a trace. Gone like the wind. Suuuuure, that's the ticket. The entire 13 hectares got blown up/dug up down to a depth of 30-40 feet. Anything can happen in holyhoax la-la land. That is not what happened. Stop making up nonsense. You are the one in la-la land, making up strawman fallacies. |
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Dec 13, 2021 17:20:21 GMT
Nessie wrote:
If that's not the case then where the hell are the graves? They didn't just effing disappear.
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Nessie
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๐๐๐ง๐๐ซ๐๐๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ฌ ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ท๐๐ฑ๐ถ๐ฐ๐ฎ๐๐ผ๐ฟ (Nessies forum)
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Post by Nessie on Dec 13, 2021 20:11:24 GMT
Nessie wrote: If that's not the case then where the hell are the graves? They didn't just effing disappear. The original graves are part of the larger areas of disturbed ground that the post war Polish investigations and later archaeological investigations found. The closest match between original grave and what is there now, is at Chelmno, as the forest site was largely undisturbed.
Some details and dimensions here.
"Plot II [5]
The first grave: It has an irregular shape; the width of the northern part can be established at 8 m and narrows by 3 meters towards the south. Its length equals 62 m. Under the humus there is an ash layer, on top of which were found unburned objects belonging to the victims. While uncovering the grave it was noticed that the earth must have contained some active substances, for protective rubber gloves became destroyed. The presence of such substances was thought to be linked to experiments of destroying the corpses in the graves with quicklime, which however were discontinued as the method turned out to be ineffective.
Plot III
The second grave: The grave was found to have irregular width, ranging from about 7 m in the southeastern part, through about 10 m in the middle part, to only 4 m in the northeastern edge. While the new layout was being uncovered, the existence of burned-out objects and ashes as well as crushed human bones both burned and unburned was detected. A further part of the grave contains burned-out objects mixed with inclusions of ash and bone meal as well as lumps of burn waste and coke. The total length of the grave equals 254 m. The depth established on the basis of drills equals 3 m. The northern segment of the grave was assumed to be probably linked to different attempts to remove the corpses, burn them inside the graves or in primitive furnaces-hearths as well as to the process of crushing bones. In the other segment, bones ground into bone meal were found. During one of the traverse probing surveys a fragment of a smoked concrete pipe was found, suggesting that in some part of the grave corpses were burned.
Plot IV
The third grave: Its total length equals 174 m, width about 8 m. The contents of the grave include sandy soil with gravel, burn waste, ash, and crushed human bones.
The fourth grave: Its actual width equals 10 m, while its length is 182 m. It is filled with gray sandy soil mixed with inclusions of burn waste, ash and crushed bones.
The fifth grave: It is not one single grave but rather a line of pits filled with ashes. The total length of these 11 pits, located 2-3 m from one another, equals 161 m. The dimensions of the pits vary from 9x7.5 m to 15.50x8.50 m. They are filled with gray soil with a significant mixture of burn waste and crushed human bones. In the southern (SE) part of the grave the bones found in the pits used to be ground; those in further parts crushed. The archaeologist refers to judge Bednarz, according to whom the depth of the pits was about 4 m and their width 8-10 m. Even now the flora on the pits is more luxuriant, making this stretch more visible on the surface."
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Nazgรปl
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Post by Nazgรปl on Dec 13, 2021 21:17:23 GMT
Nessie has supplied information which at best is somewhat inconclusive. Some witnesses saw excavators digging at the building site when the current TII was being built. This could be for mass graves or for latrines; the camp did have thousand inhabitants. Latrine pits are typically 3 metres deep minimum.
Dead did arrive on transports so there would be graves, plenty of them.
The truth about these archaeological studies is as follows (from wiki)
The fact that there may not have been dead down there did not appear to enter the consciousness of these leaders and authorities.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Dec 14, 2021 6:35:57 GMT
Were any soil samples taken from the Chelmno grave sites and sent to a laboratory for analysis? This is beginning to sound like another case of, "Shut up and take our word for what was found".
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Venatแปr
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Post by Venatแปr on Dec 14, 2021 6:48:28 GMT
Were any soil samples taken from the Chelmno grave sites and sent to a laboratory for analysis? This is beginning to sound like another case of, "Shut up and take our word for what was found". When we find out more there is a thread on Chelmno (not the slightest interest in gas vans). The internet is resplendent with such openers as: This means some post holes were found, false teeth, a lysol bottle and keys. I think these people should be more honest and people who are independent. Sobibor archaeology: It does seem that there is an ethno-cultural bias in the above investigation team. |
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Post by Ulios on Dec 14, 2021 9:00:25 GMT
Yup, all those mass graves just up and disappeared. Vanished without a trace. Gone like the wind. Suuuuure, that's the ticket. The entire 13 hectares got blown up/dug up down to a depth of 30-40 feet. Anything can happen in holyhoax la-la land. If the Russkis used this sacred temple as a bombing range would there not be arms, legs, teeth and jaws scattered all over the place? It would look like a real charnel house. I am trying to find my Granny. Should look like the photo down bottom.  |
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