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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Nov 28, 2021 6:34:52 GMT
The following map of Treblinka was produced by Yankel Wiernik in 1944. This can be found at DeathCamps.org, map I. (the compass rose extended to show North) The IssueThis map indicates the Warsaw-Bialystok main trunk railway to the left. The compass rose indicates North pointing towards the railway line. This puts the "extermination center" in a "northerly aspect". The current Treblinka II has the extermination center with a "Southerly Aspect", the exact opposite to Wiernik map one. The railway line indicated is some 4 km away at least; the line to the east of the current TII is the Malkinia - Siedlce line (now defunct). If this map is aligned with the main trunk line the northerly aspect is correct and the camp just south of the line. One can only surmise, Malkinia is the real location of this camp, real or imagined. Much of the Treblinka narrative is based on the works of this man and yet after a considerable period of time at the camp would make two fundamental errors: the compass direction and the railway line.
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Post by ๐๐๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ on Nov 28, 2021 8:57:46 GMT
You do not believe anything Yankel Wiernik has to say, so why is this significant? You spend a lot of time discussing the witnesses you do not believe. It would make more sense to discuss what you do believe.
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Nov 28, 2021 9:27:18 GMT
You do not believe anything Yankel Wiernik has to say, so why is this significant? You spend a lot of time discussing the witnesses you do not believe. It would make more sense to discuss what you do believe. This map is worthy of discussion as well as subsequent maps; this might be the only truthful thing this apparent operative has made. It also links to Malkinia. It is not about belief but where the evidence flows, in this case serious flaws which do not align with the current camp. Perhaps you may like to contribute instead of the theorizing about what people should and should not do.
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Post by ๐๐๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ on Nov 28, 2021 9:36:19 GMT
It is a plan of the gas chambers, with some other details that do not correspond with other maps and the aerial photos showing the size, shape and layout of TII. Since it clearly does contain errors, I would suggest it is discarded as evidence.
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Nov 28, 2021 9:51:26 GMT
It is a plan of the gas chambers, with some other details that do not correspond with other maps and the aerial photos showing the size, shape and layout of TII. Since it clearly does contain errors, I would suggest it is discarded as evidence. Unlikely to be errors, this was produced a short while after he escaped after the rebellion; matters were clearly fresh in his mind. A cursory examination of the thumbnail above shows that the map is carefully drawn with a compass rosette; north is clearly indicated. Some parts are nicely typed, while Warsaw and Bialystok are written in very neat readable letters. He has put in a legend to indicate the railway line, he even has a spur line entering the camp from the North West. There appears to be Hebrew "flame writing" as well. This is NOT a hurried map but a carefully considered and presented item, worthy of full attention. He obviously paid attention to detail. It is just that those details do not align with the current location of TII. Discarding this work, a work from an original Treblinka survivor because it does not fit with the later graphical morphing says much. We have linked this (Prudent Regret and others) to a location near the junction at Malkinia, but more to come.
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Post by ๐๐๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ on Nov 28, 2021 14:50:16 GMT
It is a plan of the gas chambers, with some other details that do not correspond with other maps and the aerial photos showing the size, shape and layout of TII. Since it clearly does contain errors, I would suggest it is discarded as evidence. Unlikely to be errors, this was produced a short while after he escaped after the rebellion; matters were clearly fresh in his mind. A cursory examination of the thumbnail above shows that the map is carefully drawn with a compass rosette; north is clearly indicated. Some parts are nicely typed, while Warsaw and Bialystok are written in very neat readable letters. He has put in a legend to indicate the railway line, he even has a spur line entering the camp from the North West. There appears to be Hebrew "flame writing" as well. This is NOT a hurried map but a carefully considered and presented item, worthy of full attention. He obviously paid attention to detail. It is just that those details do not align with the current location of TII. Discarding this work, a work from an original Treblinka survivor because it does not fit with the later graphical morphing says much. We have linked this (Prudent Regret and others) to a location near the junction at Malkinia, but more to come. You are assuming Wiernik was responsible for every thing, from the drawing, to the handwritten directions, to the typed Polish to the Hebrew in the margins. How do you know that he is responsible?
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Post by Sandhurst on Nov 28, 2021 18:48:59 GMT
You are assuming Wiernik was responsible for every thing, from the drawing, to the handwritten directions, to the typed Polish to the Hebrew in the margins. How do you know that he is responsible? I think you can answer your own questions due to the links given to the same place: deathcamps.orgWIERNIK MAP #1 Plan of the extermination area of Treblinka, drawn in 1944 by survivor Yankiel Wiernik According to Wiki This resistance group was the Jewish Underground who got him false papers, a Kennkarte in the name of Kowalczyk. A "year in Treblinka" was published in the same year as map one. The book was produced due to the influence of Jewish agencies, first as a clandestine document. This is a very polite way of saying Wiernik was almost illiterate. Did he write his own book? Did the Jewish organization write it for him using his name? Obviously map one was drawn by someone who had no connection with the current location of TII.
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Post by ๐๐๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ on Nov 28, 2021 19:28:06 GMT
No revisionist trusts Wiernik or that plan. Why spend so much time discussing it? Its not a particularly important piece of evidence and I have not seen it used in any historical work.
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Nov 28, 2021 20:16:04 GMT
No revisionist trusts Wiernik or that plan. Why spend so much time discussing it? Its not a particularly important piece of evidence and I have not seen it used in any historical work. The evidential value of this for anything holocaust related is perhaps limited. It is produced and it is from that era, a time when so many documents are missing. Interesting one of the first maps shows North in a different perspective. The "Survey Map" below is very similar to the above map. Here are three maps of TII all in a northerly perspective. Strangely enough the "survey map" has "north" 45 degrees out from the middle map, which has the compass alignments correct. One would expect the "survey" map to be correct at least.
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Nov 30, 2021 23:52:56 GMT
Malkinia Junction The following photo was taken by the Luftwaffe in 1944. (1944 April 16) link. The caption at ushmm says: Photograph Number: 04376: National Archives and Records Administration, College Park Copyright: Public Domain Source Record ID: 373-Aerial Photographs--GX12225 Here is a photo of the same Junction supplied by PR. This is a few years later. The caption says: Yad Vashem: Treblinka,Extermination Camp,Poland. 4070448Yad Vashem have interestingly stated that this junction is the Treblinka Extermination Camp. The shape of the area in both photos resembles the current TII camp. The current TII location is some 6km south of this point.
Wierniks first photo when aligned north put the camp in a similar layout to the area shown in the photos above.
Here is a current google maps view of the area now.
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Post by ๐๐๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐ on Dec 10, 2021 20:28:44 GMT
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Post by Sandhurst on Dec 11, 2021 3:11:24 GMT
Thank you Nessie, this is a remarkable find. More thought will go into this but here are the initial findings. Two different maps. However, the similarities are remarkable; these include the Warsaw-Bialystok line and North. Krzepicki has labelled his map Treblinka B. The two men either drew the same camp or one has copied from the other with the same layout and orientation.
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Post by been_there on Dec 11, 2021 8:15:15 GMT
According to the GHETTO FIGHTERS HOUSE ARCHIVES this below is the second drawing of the Treblinka 2 camp drawn by Jakow (Yaakow) Wiernik , made by him in February 1945. The legend was written by his daughter, Yael Levi Gordon. Wiernik made the drawing in Warsaw, having consulted two camp survivors: a man named Reisman and Henrik (Jechiel) Rajchman. This drawing was the blueprint for Wiernikโs model of the camp. This info is from THIS Jewish website. It states that Wiernik took part in the Treblinka uprising of 2 August 1943, succeeded in escaping, and returned to Warsaw. There he became part of the Jewish underground, the Coordinating Committee of Jewish Social Organisations (in Polish known as the KK, Komisja Koordynacyjna Zydowskich Instytucji Spolecznych). He even served as a liaison person for the KK. As part of their propaganda drive, in 1943 he drew a diagram of the Treblinka campโs layout and wrote down what he claimed he had seen during his yearโs stay there. This non-credible and racist document, Rok w Treblince (English: A year in Treblinka), was published in 1944 by the Jewish National Committee ( Zydowski Komitet Narodowy) after a clandestine edition was published by members of the Polish underground who worked at the print shop of the Nazi-sponsored Polish language newspaper, Nowy Kurier Warszawski. On 24 May 1944, this written testimony was sent together with a packet of underground documentation from Warsaw to Jewish activists in London (seat of the Polish government-in-exile) and from there to the U.S.A. and to Mandate Palestine. In Palestine his testimony was published in Hebrew in December 1944 by the Histadrut - General Federation of Laborers in the Land of Israel, part of its brief works series, โPinkas Katan.โ At the same time, it was translated into other languages, notably English and Yiddish. In 1945 he redid his drawing of the Treblinka campโs layout, after the loss of the original drawing that he had made in late 1943 - early 1944. (This 1945 version is preserved in the Archives of the Ghetto Fightersโ House and is shown below). After the war he became one of the many Jewish colonialist settlers that commited racist ethnic cleansing of non-Jews in Palestine, and in the early 1950s he became a settler in Holon. In 1955 he was approached by Zivia Lubetkin and Yitzhak Zuckerman to build a model of the Treblinka camp for the Ghetto Fightersโ House museum. The modelโs exhibit was inaugurated in 1959. 
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Post by been_there on Dec 11, 2021 8:50:42 GMT
Here is a website with many different maps and diagrams of T2. www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/maps.htmlAccording to it, THIS is the drawing made by Krzepicki.  Jakub Abraham Krzepicki claimed he was deported to Treblinka on 25 August 1942. He claimed that eighteen days later, he escaped by hiding under clothes that were sent back to Lublin in a freight car.
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