Nessie
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𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿 (Nessies forum)
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Post by Nessie on Nov 12, 2021 18:35:44 GMT
Been-there, if the Kremas were being modified so that showering, delousing or use as bomb shelters was the plan, why does no document contain the words "Dusche", "Duschen","Entlausung" or "Luftschutzbunker"?
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Post by Agandaur on Nov 12, 2021 18:44:29 GMT
Been-there, if the Kremas were being modified so that showering, delousing or use as bomb shelters was the plan, why does no document contain the words "Dusche", "Duschen","Entlausung" or "Luftschutzbunker"? I am sure the wording or lack of it fails as evidence for mass extermination. |
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Nessie
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𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿 (Nessies forum)
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Post by Nessie on Nov 12, 2021 19:58:02 GMT
Been-there, if the Kremas were being modified so that showering, delousing or use as bomb shelters was the plan, why does no document contain the words "Dusche", "Duschen","Entlausung" or "Luftschutzbunker"? I am sure the wording or lack of it fails as evidence for mass extermination. The wording mean that the claims made about alternative uses for the kremas are undermined. |
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Venatỏr
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ᴛʀɪʙᴜɴᴜꜱ ʟᴀᴛɪᴄʟᴀᴠɪᴜꜱ
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Post by Venatỏr on Nov 13, 2021 6:47:27 GMT
The wording mean that the claims made about alternative uses for the kremas are undermined. This poster is suggesting that because a morgue does not have signs written, "Shower", "Showers", "Delousing" or "Air raid shelter"?, this some how confirms this was not a morgue. I wonder how many of the inhabitants of this place would be in a fit state to read. I feel that their eyes are firmly shut. |
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Nessie
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𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿 (Nessies forum)
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Post by Nessie on Nov 20, 2021 20:26:17 GMT
The wording mean that the claims made about alternative uses for the kremas are undermined. This poster is suggesting that because a morgue does not have signs written, "Shower", "Showers", "Delousing" or "Air raid shelter"?, this some how confirms this was not a morgue. I wonder how many of the inhabitants of this place would be in a fit state to read. I feel that their eyes are firmly shut. It is clearly significant, in establishing what took place inside the Kremas, that no document uses the terms suggested. The documents are clear, the Kremas were modified to contain gas chambers and significantly, undressing rooms;
- Letter from Eduard Wirths of 21 January 1943 on “undressing room” in crematorium 2 [Mattogno ATCOS, vol. 1, p. 72]
- Letter from Karl Bischoff to Topf of 6 March 1943 on “preheating cellar 1” and “undressing room” in crematorium 2 and 3 [Pressac, Technique, p. 433] - Working time sheet from Heinrich Messing of 14 March 1943 on “undressing cellar 2” in crematorium 2 [Pressac, Technique, p. 434] - Work time sheet from Heinrich Messing of 13 April 1943 on “undressing cellar” in crematorium 3 [Pressac, Technique, p. 439]
Add to that the Sonderkommando photo of people undressing outside Krema V;
The evidence converges, people were stripped before they were gassed.
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Venatỏr
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ᴛʀɪʙᴜɴᴜꜱ ʟᴀᴛɪᴄʟᴀᴠɪᴜꜱ
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Post by Venatỏr on Nov 21, 2021 18:13:44 GMT
the Kremas were modified to contain gas chambers and significantly, undressing rooms the Sonderkommando photo of people undressing outside Krema V So what Nessie is saying is that there were undressing rooms that were not used which is why people were stripping down outside. Must have been cold for them in December. |
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Nessie
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𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿 (Nessies forum)
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Post by Nessie on Nov 21, 2021 19:10:06 GMT
the Kremas were modified to contain gas chambers and significantly, undressing rooms the Sonderkommando photo of people undressing outside Krema V So what Nessie is saying is that there were undressing rooms that were not used which is why people were stripping down outside. Must have been cold for them in December.
No. Kremas II and III had undressing rooms. Kremas IV and V were smaller and there is evidence sometimes people undressed outside.
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Nazgûl
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Post by Nazgûl on Nov 21, 2021 19:40:40 GMT
A few naked females taken at the same time as "spaghetti woman" was photographed by resistance agents (Greek-Jewish concentration camp prisoner Alberto Errera ) is not really all that compelling. There could be a number of reasons why people were naked, presumably for a wash after transport. Alberto worked at Krema V.
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Nessie
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𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐛𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐬 𝗮𝗱𝗷𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗼𝗿 (Nessies forum)
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Post by Nessie on Nov 22, 2021 9:15:45 GMT
A few naked females taken at the same time as "spaghetti woman" was photographed by resistance agents (Greek-Jewish concentration camp prisoner Alberto Errera ) is not really all that compelling. There could be a number of reasons why people were naked, presumably for a wash after transport. Alberto worked at Krema V. One photo, considered in isolation, is never going to be compelling. That is not how evidencing works. ALL of the evidence has to be considered at the same time. The evidence is that Kremas IV and V were a different design and smaller than Kremas II and III. There is evidence that at times of mass arrivals, in particular the Hungarian transports in July and August 1944, the Kremas struggled to cope. There is evidence that undressing and cremations took place outside Krema V.
The Sonderkommando photos corroborate other claims about what happened at the Kremas. There is nothing to corroborate your suggestion they were just washing as part of being transported.
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Velòhaven
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Post by Velòhaven on Nov 22, 2021 17:01:53 GMT
One photo, considered in isolation, is never going to be compelling. That is not how evidencing works. There is nothing to corroborate your suggestion they were just washing as part of being transported. The photos in question, like the reports in other matters were taken by "intelligence agents" aka spies. These were not photos taken by some ordinary person but designed strategically for black propaganda purposes. The photos, as discussed elsewhere appear doctored to some extent just like the photo below of spaghetti woman. Intelligence personnel are well aware of the rules of "evidencing" many being ex detectives or trained in such legal matters. No doubt any collection of material and reports will coincide with the necessary rules. |
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