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Post by Tribunus Laticlavius on Nov 21, 2021 18:13:44 GMT
the Kremas were modified to contain gas chambers and significantly, undressing rooms the Sonderkommando photo of people undressing outside Krema V So what Nessie is saying is that there were undressing rooms that were not used which is why people were stripping down outside. Must have been cold for them in December. |
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Post by Nessie on Nov 21, 2021 19:10:06 GMT
the Kremas were modified to contain gas chambers and significantly, undressing rooms the Sonderkommando photo of people undressing outside Krema V So what Nessie is saying is that there were undressing rooms that were not used which is why people were stripping down outside. Must have been cold for them in December.
No. Kremas II and III had undressing rooms. Kremas IV and V were smaller and there is evidence sometimes people undressed outside.
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Post by nazgul on Nov 21, 2021 19:40:40 GMT
A few naked females taken at the same time as "spaghetti woman" was photographed by resistance agents (Greek-Jewish concentration camp prisoner Alberto Errera ) is not really all that compelling. There could be a number of reasons why people were naked, presumably for a wash after transport. Alberto worked at Krema V.
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Post by Nessie on Nov 22, 2021 9:15:45 GMT
A few naked females taken at the same time as "spaghetti woman" was photographed by resistance agents (Greek-Jewish concentration camp prisoner Alberto Errera ) is not really all that compelling. There could be a number of reasons why people were naked, presumably for a wash after transport. Alberto worked at Krema V. One photo, considered in isolation, is never going to be compelling. That is not how evidencing works. ALL of the evidence has to be considered at the same time. The evidence is that Kremas IV and V were a different design and smaller than Kremas II and III. There is evidence that at times of mass arrivals, in particular the Hungarian transports in July and August 1944, the Kremas struggled to cope. There is evidence that undressing and cremations took place outside Krema V.
The Sonderkommando photos corroborate other claims about what happened at the Kremas. There is nothing to corroborate your suggestion they were just washing as part of being transported.
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Post by ๐ธ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Nov 22, 2021 17:01:53 GMT
One photo, considered in isolation, is never going to be compelling. That is not how evidencing works. There is nothing to corroborate your suggestion they were just washing as part of being transported. The photos in question, like the reports in other matters were taken by "intelligence agents" aka spies. These were not photos taken by some ordinary person but designed strategically for black propaganda purposes. The photos, as discussed elsewhere appear doctored to some extent just like the photo below of spaghetti woman. Intelligence personnel are well aware of the rules of "evidencing" many being ex detectives or trained in such legal matters. No doubt any collection of material and reports will coincide with the necessary rules. |
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Post by nazgul on Nov 23, 2021 3:54:25 GMT
There is nothing to corroborate your suggestion they were just washing as part of being transported. Many of those interned at concentration camps write in their memoirs how hygienic the conditions were before the rout; they insist that they had to shower with cold water in the mornings, often without soap. It was an offence to be unclean. Some who arrived at Birkenau mention immediate showering upon disembarkation from the transports. One was told not to drink the water (obviously unfit for consumption) but he did and had severe intestinal issues. (Pierre Berg, Scheiรhaus luck) This alone suggests that washing and transportation were highly associated. |
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Post by Nessie on Nov 23, 2021 8:33:33 GMT
There is nothing to corroborate your suggestion they were just washing as part of being transported. Many of those interned at concentration camps write in their memoirs how hygienic the conditions were before the rout; they insist that they had to shower with cold water in the mornings, often without soap. It was an offence to be unclean. Some who arrived at Birkenau mention immediate showering upon disembarkation from the transports. One was told not to drink the water (obviously unfit for consumption) but he did and had severe intestinal issues. (Pierre Berg, Scheiรhaus luck) This alone suggests that washing and transportation were highly associated. There is no witness to mass showering inside the Kremas. Instead, witnesses speak to gas chambers made to look like showers, which is corroborated by a document referring to the supply of shower fittings.
"Transfer inventory of 24 June 1943 on โ14 showersโ and โ1 gas tight doorโ in crematorium 3 [Pressac, Technique , p. 430]"
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Post by Tribunus Laticlavius on Nov 23, 2021 8:53:44 GMT
There is no witness to mass showering inside the Kremas. Instead, witnesses speak to gas chambers made to look like showers, which is corroborated by a document referring to the supply of shower fittings. This may be true but the Central Sauna is a mere 100m away from Krema IV; this was intended for dis-infestation. |
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Post by Nessie on Nov 23, 2021 11:15:36 GMT
There is no witness to mass showering inside the Kremas. Instead, witnesses speak to gas chambers made to look like showers, which is corroborated by a document referring to the supply of shower fittings. This may be true but the Central Sauna is a mere 100m away from Krema IV; this was intended for dis-infestation. Do you agree that the lack of evidence of mass showering inside the Kremas, rules out that hypothesis about what was happening inside them in 1943-4?
Normally, if something is not evidenced to have happened, where there is also evidence something else happened, then the unevidenced claim is ruled out.
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Post by nazgul on Nov 23, 2021 17:19:32 GMT
This may be true but the Central Sauna is a mere 100m away from Krema IV; this was intended for dis-infestation. This is the reality. |
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Post by nazgul on Nov 23, 2021 17:41:38 GMT
Birkenau SaunaThis is where prisoners selected for slave labor were processed. Often people would have to wait outside naked in any weather. Here they would have to give up all their remaining possessions: money, jewels, even wedding rings and photos. In short, the prisoner was left with only one possession, his or her body. In this building planned humiliation was performed on the confused and terrified new arrivals. 
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Post by Nessie on Nov 23, 2021 20:04:44 GMT
The Birkenau sauna was used for those selected to work at the camp. What about the rest sent to the Kremas?
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Post by nazgul on Nov 24, 2021 1:25:36 GMT
The Birkenau sauna was used for those selected to work at the camp. What about the rest sent to the Kremas? Only the dead go to Kremas. Aktion14f13 no doubt occurred at A_B as was the law; I doubt if these would be registered. The rest existed even if they were too young to work. The official narrative from Aushwitz.org states: However, a single photo shows the above statement to be false. These children are considerably younger than 13, well below puberty  It seems that people like yourself Nessie are confusing lawful euthanasia of the invalid with mass murder of Jews. |
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Post by Nessie on Nov 24, 2021 10:33:55 GMT
Show your evidence that the Kremas were used for lawful euthanasia. How many Jews were euthanised in the Kremas? How were they euthanised?
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Post by Tribunus Laticlavius on Nov 24, 2021 17:49:58 GMT
Show your evidence that the Kremas were used for lawful euthanasia. How many Jews were euthanised in the Kremas? How were they euthanized. It seems the poster has got some wires crossed. What he writer said was: Only the dead go to Kremas. Aktion14f13 no doubt occurred at A_B as was the law; I doubt if these would be registered. There is no mention of those euthanized being "aktioned" in the Kremas, though they would have ended up there after their last breath. It seems the member Nessie is posting Knee Jerk replies without careful consideration of the material presented to him. |
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