Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Oct 4, 2022 10:35:09 GMT
Nessie wrote: The "I already done that" excuse. One of Nessie's more well worn lies. Nessie answers the unasked question. The question is how does Nessie account for the fahrplanaordnungs stating that the trains left Malkinia, arrived at Treblinka seven minutes later, stayed there with no further train movement noted and left on their return trips 2 hours and 40 minutes later. A fine example of Nessie ignoring evidence that doesn't fit his holyhoax narrative. That the train left Malkinia and stopped shortly thereafter and for the next 2 hours and 40 minutes it was at Treblinka before it left, fits in with witness evidence of leaving Malkinia and then spending hours on carriages before entering TII, because the train had to be split and shunted in and out of the camp. You are relying on very short excerpts of their testimony, from the Eric Hunt videos. How do you know there is nothing about mistreatment in the testimony Hunt edited out and did not use in his videos?
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Oct 4, 2022 10:49:56 GMT
because the train had to be split and shunted in and out of the camp. It is impossible for a steam train with all those carriages to travel 5 km in 7 minutes from being stationary.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Oct 4, 2022 11:01:01 GMT
because the train had to be split and shunted in and out of the camp. It is impossible for a steam train with all those carriages to travel 5 km in 7 minutes from being stationary. The evidence from Polish rail workers and those on the trains, is that when the trains left Malkinia, they did not travel non stop to TII. Instead, the journey lasted many hours, with lots of shunting. That fits with a timetable of the train left Malkinia and 7 minutes later is stopped, but it would be nearly 3 hours before it left TII to go back to Malkinia.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Oct 4, 2022 11:17:54 GMT
Nessie ignores my statement, "The "I already done that" excuse. One of Nessie's more well worn lies". Nessie has no witness who corroborates Gley's description of how the crematory grate was built and it's capacity.
Nessie wrote:
The Treblinka that was about a mile from Malkinia was the final destination for at least two fahrplanaordnung trains. They remained stationary there for 2 hours and 40 minutes and then resumed their journey to collect more Jews. They didn't wait 2 hours and 40 minutes and then begin shuttling cars to Treblinka II. They most likely scenario is that they used that 2 hours 40 minutes to service, refuel and change train crews before leaving on their next trip to pick up Jews. The fahrplanaordnungs make no mention of Treblinka II at all.
Are you accusing Hunt of editing out everything the witnesses claimed about being tortured at Treblinka II?
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Post by ๐ฅ๐ฐ๐๐ด๐ป๐ธ on Oct 4, 2022 11:35:45 GMT
The evidence from Polish rail workers and those on the trains, is that when the trains left Malkinia, they did not travel non stop to TII. Instead, the journey lasted many hours, with lots of shunting. That fits with a timetable of the train left Malkinia and 7 minutes later is stopped, but it would be nearly 3 hours before it left TII to go back to Malkinia. Timetables do not work on individual cases but an orchestrated plan to be at the destination. End of story these trains did not go to the Treblinka railway station from Malkinia.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Oct 4, 2022 11:47:35 GMT
Nessie ignores my statement, "The "I already done that" excuse. One of Nessie's more well worn lies". Nessie has no witness who corroborates Gley's description of how the crematory grate was built and it's capacity. Which is not true and I have already linked you to Nazis who corroborate him. But that is off topic, which you do a lot. Show me the location of that camp, its present remains, any documentary reference to it and evidence of its commander and any staff or other witness who worked there, or local Pole who remembers such a camp. The trains spent the 2 hours and 40 minutes being split and shunted in and out of TII, as described by lots of witnesses. Name and quote a Polish train driver who describes what you describe. Yes, for example, Helen Schwartz. In Hunt's video, he makes no mention of this; theverylongview.com/WATH/personal/both2.htm"We exited and realized that they had brought us to Treblinka. This turned out to be the worst of the worst concentration camp in history. So many Jews were killed in this horrific place....We were very hungry and because everybody was saying that they were going to kill us and put us in the crematoriums, some women did not want to eat... I remember I was pushed on a table and there were men and women in white coats examining me. Unfortunately, I do not remember anything else. I must have been given something to knock me out. I do not know what they did to me. Finally, I was slapped in the face, O awoke, was helped down from the table, and I ended walking outside the office with my legs shaking. After this incident, my menstruation period ceased. Only after the war, a little before I got married, my menstruation period returned." Hunt edited out how she had been terrified, starved and was subject to some sort of examination/experimented on. So, again, how do you know none of the witnesses Hunt used, said anything about mistreatment or torture, when all you have is Hunt's brief edits?
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Oct 4, 2022 11:48:38 GMT
The evidence from Polish rail workers and those on the trains, is that when the trains left Malkinia, they did not travel non stop to TII. Instead, the journey lasted many hours, with lots of shunting. That fits with a timetable of the train left Malkinia and 7 minutes later is stopped, but it would be nearly 3 hours before it left TII to go back to Malkinia. Timetables do not work on individual cases but an orchestrated plan to be at the destination. End of story these trains did not go to the Treblinka railway station from Malkinia. The evidence from every single witness and the circumstances of AR, contradicts you.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Oct 4, 2022 16:12:41 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie straight up lies about linking to a witness that corroborates Gley's account of how the crematory grate was constructed and it's capacity. Nessie does that a lot.
Uh-uh. The German fahrplanaordnungs describe the final destination of the trains as being about a mile from Malkinia at Treblinka. They were at that destination for 2 hours and 40 minutes then commenced another trip to transport Jews. That was from the German timetable that would have noted any further train movements. The 2 hours and 40 minutes would have been just enough time to unload the passengers, clean the cars, service and fuel the locomotive and change crews. It then left Treblinka to repeat the timetable. That is the fahrplanaordnung record.
Nessie is apparently claiming that the German timetable was some kind of lie to hide the fact that the Jews were transported from a camp designated Treblinka that was located about a mile from Malkinia to the Treblinka II camp. Or something. At any event he's apparently claiming that the German fahrplanaordnung, the timetable, was a lie.
Here is the heading from that article.
IOW, that is an "as told to" story written and edited by Helen Schwartz's kinfolk. Hunt had nothing to do with that account and posted only his edited version of what Schwartz claimed in her Spielberg interview.
Schwartz claimed to be hungry but was given something to eat. She was apparently given some kind of medical examination which frightened her. None of that comes even close to the alleged witnesses' tales of daily physical torture. Neither did Hunt reference the "as told to" account of her sojourn in Treblinka. Trying to equate a silly young woman's fear of a medical examination to being beaten with whips and bashed with gun butts is beyond asinine.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Oct 4, 2022 18:52:02 GMT
Nessie wrote: Nessie straight up lies about linking to a witness that corroborates Gley's account of how the crematory grate was constructed and it's capacity. Nessie does that a lot. Here is the post where I link to Gley and the corroborating account; Here is your response to that, which is the very next post;
rodoh.info/post/11694/threadYou have no evidence of a Treblinka camp 7 minutes by train from Malkinia, because there is no such camp. I am claiming, based on the evidence, the timing is the time of arrival at the place where the shunting into TII began. How do you know, from edited videos, that none of the witnesses described any form of torture? Lots of people would describe what happened to Schwartz as a form of torture, your suggestion that only being beaten counts, is idiotic.
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Post by Prudent_Regret on Oct 4, 2022 19:15:31 GMT
I am claiming, based on the evidence, the timing is the time of arrival at the place where the shunting into TII began. The point is that people like you constantly repeat the phrase "there are records of transports into Treblinka, but no reports of transports out of Treblinka". But there are no written records of any "shunting" of these transports from "Treblinka", wherever that may be, to TII. There are no written reports or schedules of transports, or shunting, to TII. There is only witness testimony, which likely misinterpreted the closed goods wagons going in and out of TII as being entirely full of Jews rather than old clothes and property confiscated from the liquidated ghettos. So, there are no train records of transports to TII, contrary to what people like you constantly claim. All known records record somewhere else, referred to either as Malkinia or as "Treblinka" in the documents, as the destination. All we know is that this destination "Treblinka" was not TII.
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Nessie
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Post by Nessie on Oct 4, 2022 19:41:42 GMT
I am claiming, based on the evidence, the timing is the time of arrival at the place where the shunting into TII began. The point is that people like you constantly repeat the phrase "there are records of transports into Treblinka, but no reports of transports out of Treblinka". But there are no written records of any "shunting" of these transports from "Treblinka", wherever that may be, to TII. There are no written reports or schedules of transports, or shunting, to TII. There is only witness testimony, which likely misinterpreted the closed goods wagons going in and out of TII as being entirely full of Jews rather than old clothes and property confiscated from the liquidated ghettos. So, there are no train records of transports to TII, contrary to what people like you constantly claim. All known records record somewhere else, referred to either as Malkinia or as "Treblinka" in the documents, as the destination. All we know is that this destination "Treblinka" was not TII. The Stroop Report documents transports to TII. TII, as in the camp on the spur line to the Treblinka quarry, was the AR camp, so the documents recording mass transports from ghettos to a Treblinka camp, are referring to TII, as AR was the operation to empty the ghettos of Jews and to steal the last of their property.
Where is your evidence of another Treblinka camp, not on the spur line to the quarry? Show me witnesses, documents or the physical remains of that camp.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Oct 4, 2022 21:02:39 GMT
Nessie wrote:
Nessie continues to lie. He claimed to have witnesses who corroborate Gley's description of how the crematory grates were constructed. He doesn't. He has no witnesses who claim that the railroad rails were placed on large rocks and then cross-meshed with lighter rails. That the grate would hold up to 200 cadavers.
Obviously Gley was being coerced and came up with this cockamamie tale as the best he could do under the circumstances. Did he actually see any such structure? Of course he didn't but it satisfied the demands of his captors that cremations had taken place. Nessie's claim to having a witness who corroborates Gley's fantasy is bunkum.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Oct 4, 2022 21:36:04 GMT
Nessie wrote:
The actual German records make it plain that the Treblinka located about a mile from Malkinia was the final destination of the fahrplanaordnung trains. Nessie can fantasize whatever he wishes about "shuntings", the transfer of Jews from Treblinka to Treblinka II, but as Prudent Regret has said, those records of trains arriving at and leaving Treblinka II no longer exist.
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Turnagain
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Post by Turnagain on Oct 4, 2022 23:19:55 GMT
Prudent Regret wrote:
Here is a pure, blue sky speculation. Nothing whatsoever to back it up. The fahrplanaordnung trains were dedicated to transporting Jews. Those trains were sent directly to the Treblinka located about a mile from Malkinia. However, there were other trains that carried incidental passengers and dropped the deportees off at Treblinka II for temporary housing and sorting. Your opinion. A possibility or clownworld?
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Post by Prudent_Regret on Oct 5, 2022 0:21:20 GMT
Prudent Regret wrote: Here is a pure, blue sky speculation. Nothing whatsoever to back it up. The fahrplanaordnung trains were dedicated to transporting Jews. Those trains were sent directly to the Treblinka located about a mile from Malkinia. However, there were other trains that carried incidental passengers and dropped the deportees off at Treblinka II for temporary housing and sorting. Your opinion. A possibility or clownworld? Even according to official historiography, it was a "smaller shunting engine" and not the original engine that supposedly brought the carts to TII. So already, we are talking about two separate trains. I think the separate train, that "smaller shunting engine" was part of an industrial railway that connected the various quarries and industrial centers throughout the area (including TII) to Malkinia. TI would use this local industrial train for hauling gravel and transporting prisoners. TII would use it for transporting goods and passengers to TI/TII. But witnesses in the area would see the fahrplanaordnung trains arrive at Malkinia / "Treblinka." And then they would also see this separate train go from Malkinia to TI/TII. So it's not hard to see how this story took hold. The whole "shunting" aspect of TII has always been very dubious and clearly intended to blur the fact we are talking about a different train going to/from TI/II than arrived at Malkinia / "Treblinka." In any case, the notion that all the passenger carts of these fahrplanaordnung trains were "shunted" to TII is not supported by transport records. It was probably an entirely different train with its own carts and own engine.
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