What is the Revisionist Narrative??

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Huntinger
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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:02 pm
No, you are stupid for repeatedly showing a lack of understanding of hearsay/eye-witness evidence and your repeated use of logical fallacies as if that is a substitute for evidence.

If there is evidence a gas chamber worked, then it does not matter that we do not know exactly how it worked. That witnesses did not give every single detail about how the chambers worked, does not therefore mean it could not have worked.
Gaskammers work as Leuchter pointed out, not the German ones though. It has been mentioned many times by Fritz, others and myself that functioning ones with proper air flows (Kreislauf) could work, not the ad hoc shambles suggested today.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

Amt IV


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Turnagain
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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Turnagain »

Right, witness A says that the gas chamber worked. Well done witness A. You speak the absolute truth.

Witness A says that the gas chamber was hermetically sealed and functioned as a vacuum chamber. Gidoutahere, you're a moron who's just repeating hearsay.

Don't pay any attention to what the witnesses said. Nessie will tell you what they really meant.

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Nessie
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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:41 pm
Right, witness A says that the gas chamber worked. Well done witness A. You speak the absolute truth.

Witness A says that the gas chamber was hermetically sealed and functioned as a vacuum chamber. Gidoutahere, you're a moron who's just repeating hearsay.

Don't pay any attention to what the witnesses said. Nessie will tell you what they really meant.
I am paying more attention than you to what witnesses said. I identify whether they saw what they are referring to, or if they are using hearsay and are repeating what they have been told.

If a witness said he worked at the gas chambers and removed bodies, then he saw a gassing. If a witness said he cut hair and makes no mention of actually seeing a gassing, then anything he has to say about the gassings is hearsay.

Those who worked at the gas chambers, the eye witnesses; Wiernik, Rajchman, Fuchs etc, they all say an engine was used to gas people. That is the most reliable evidence and it is that evidence I use.

But, I do not just use the eye witness evidence. I check it to see if it is corroborated and it is, by the finding of the remains of a building as described. I also check to see if anything else is evidenced and there is nothing. It has been suggested by deniers that instead of being gassed, those people were showered, but there is no evidence to support that alternative.

Based on the best evidence and what is not evidenced, I conclude that gassings did happen.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:24 pm
It has been suggested by deniers that instead of being gassed, those people were showered, but there is no evidence to support that alternative.
Holocaust survivor explains how water miraculously came out of a gas chamber shower head
Based on the best evidence my biases and what is not evidenced, I conclude that gassings did happen.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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been-there
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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by been-there »

TRUE-BELIEVER ASKS
Question: What is the Revisionist narrative?

Answer: A man survives the war, changes his name and emigrates to another country.
He has emotional and psychological issues. So he goes to a therapist.
In the therapist's room he is lying on the couch.

He shouldn't do that. Lying is bad.
He should tell the truth.


:D

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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie claims that Bomba wasn't an eyewitness to the gas/vacuum chambers. For Bomba's interview, go here:
https://codoh.com/library/document/treb ... -bomba/en/
Here is an excerpt from Bomba's interview. CL is Claude Lanzmann and B is Bomba.

"C.L. When they were already inside the gas chamber and the room was closed and the gas was sent [in], did you hear anything?

B. It was not the sort of thing you ask to hear. It was not only that you heard it, but people from outside, the Polish people for kilometres around could hear the screaming and choking that was going on for a number of seconds, even 1 or 2 minutes, until everything was quiet.

C.L. It was so short? No more than 2 minutes?

B. No, that is as short as it was, because when in Treblinka they stopped giving in poion or other kinds of poison things to gas them, they had a pump pumping out the air from the chamber. Naturally, without air the women had to be choked and fall on each other to catch the breath from each other. But it was impossible, and in a very short time, maximum 2 minutes, they were all quiet until the other door opened up; because the Nazi was looking through a little hole to see what was going on, whether they were still alive or dead, to give the order to take them out of the gas chamber.

C.L. But I thought the Jews were killed with carbon monoxide gas from a motor.

B. That happened at the beginning. After that they stopped it because it was expensive. It cost money and it was very hard to get through to them. At the last time they pumped out the air from the chamber.

C.L. You are sure of this?

B. I am pretty sure. And I know about it, I was there and I saw it. I was inside and not many people - maybe 2 or 3 of the people who worked in the second part of Treblinka are still alive. I was one of them, I know, I was there and I saw that."
So much for Nessie's lie that Bomba wasn't an eyewitness and didn't say that he witnessed the gas/vacuum chamber. Same with Nessie's lie that Rajchman didn't say that the normal procedure at the gas chamber was to pump the air out of the chamber and replace it with the exhaust from the engine. Nessie's claim that the alleged experiment failed because the Germans didn't pump any air out of the chamber is just another lie.

"What ifs", "coulda, woulda", omissions and outright lies are Nessie's stock in trade. Why bother to argue with him?

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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by clincher »

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:57 pm
Nessie claims that Bomba wasn't an eyewitness to the gas/vacuum chambers. For Bomba's interview, go here:
Dealt here
Turnagain wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:41 pm
LMAO! Bomba, Rajchman and Rosenberg ALL just made (heh-heh) "little mistakes". So did the USHMM. Your pile of "just a (heh-heh) little mistake" is getting bigger than the alleged stockpile of ex from the mass graves, Nessie.
Going around circles.

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Nessie
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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:57 pm
Nessie claims that Bomba wasn't an eyewitness to the gas/vacuum chambers. For Bomba's interview, go here:
https://codoh.com/library/document/treb ... -bomba/en/
Here is an excerpt from Bomba's interview. CL is Claude Lanzmann and B is Bomba.

"C.L. When they were already inside the gas chamber and the room was closed and the gas was sent [in], did you hear anything?

B. It was not the sort of thing you ask to hear. It was not only that you heard it, but people from outside, the Polish people for kilometres around could hear the screaming and choking that was going on for a number of seconds, even 1 or 2 minutes, until everything was quiet.

C.L. It was so short? No more than 2 minutes?

B. No, that is as short as it was, because when in Treblinka they stopped giving in poion or other kinds of poison things to gas them, they had a pump pumping out the air from the chamber. Naturally, without air the women had to be choked and fall on each other to catch the breath from each other. But it was impossible, and in a very short time, maximum 2 minutes, they were all quiet until the other door opened up; because the Nazi was looking through a little hole to see what was going on, whether they were still alive or dead, to give the order to take them out of the gas chamber.

C.L. But I thought the Jews were killed with carbon monoxide gas from a motor.

B. That happened at the beginning. After that they stopped it because it was expensive. It cost money and it was very hard to get through to them. At the last time they pumped out the air from the chamber.

C.L. You are sure of this?

B. I am pretty sure. And I know about it, I was there and I saw it. I was inside and not many people - maybe 2 or 3 of the people who worked in the second part of Treblinka are still alive. I was one of them, I know, I was there and I saw that."
So much for Nessie's lie that Bomba wasn't an eyewitness and didn't say that he witnessed the gas/vacuum chamber. Same with Nessie's lie that Rajchman didn't say that the normal procedure at the gas chamber was to pump the air out of the chamber and replace it with the exhaust from the engine. Nessie's claim that the alleged experiment failed because the Germans didn't pump any air out of the chamber is just another lie.

"What ifs", "coulda, woulda", omissions and outright lies are Nessie's stock in trade. Why bother to argue with him?
Bomba does not say he saw a gassing. He said he and Polish residents nearby to the camp could hear the screaming, which is clearly an exaggeration, a use of hyperbole. He then becomes unclear about what he saw. He suggests he saw the use of a vacuum and then he states "I am pretty sure". He did not see what he suggests he did, he is using hearsay. He confirms that when he states "That happened at the beginning". He arrived in Sept 1942, the camp opened in July.

A big give away that he did not work at the chambers when there were gassings, is that he makes no mention of seeing or clearing bodies. He states he worked in the second part of TII, and we know hair cuts were in the Lazarette area. He states he cut hair in a gas chamber, but we know when he arrived the old gas chamber was replaced with a new one, so he would be working in the old gas chamber building, whilst gassings took place in the new chambers.

Rajchman did not say pumping air out was the common procedure. He said that both pumping the air out and CO were used and then they tried to just pump the air out and not use any CO, but it did not work. He arrived after Bomba, in October 1942.

The new gas chamber came into operation in Sept 1942. It is not clear what chambers witnesses say was used with a vacuum. They are clear that gas replaced the use of any vacuum and that tallies with the use of the new gas chamber.

The Nazis who worked at the camp, who you ignore, all say that gas was used. None say it was a vacuum. Clearly the use of a vacuum is hearsay, a rumour that spread only around the prisoners.

You will not understand any of what I have said.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Huntinger »

Clearly the use of a vacuum is hearsay, a rumour that spread only around the prisoners.
Why was this accepted as fact by the Nürnberg Military Tribunal.? It is highly suggested all of the claims are rumours spread around by prisoners and civilians.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Nessie
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Re: What is the Revisionist Narrative??

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:03 am
Clearly the use of a vacuum is hearsay, a rumour that spread only around the prisoners.
Why was this accepted as fact by the Nürnberg Military Tribunal.? It is highly suggested all of the claims are rumours spread around by prisoners and civilians.
It was accepted as fact that chambers were used for mass killings. It was accepted that those who worked at the camps did not know for certain how those inside the chambers were killed.

Like a stabbing where witnesses all agree that a person was stabbed to death, but vary over what type of sharp instrument was used. The important part is that the witnesses agree on the main event. It is expected, when witnesses do not collude to make up a story, that details will vary.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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