Behind the Iron Curtain

Discuss the alleged Nazi genocide or other wartime atrocities without fear of censorship. No bullying of fellow posters is allowed at RODOH. If you can't be civil, please address the argument and not the participants. Do not use disparaging alterations of the user-names of other RODOH posters or their family members. Failure to heed warnings from Moderators will result in a 24 hour ban (or longer if necessary).
Post Reply
User avatar
Vesoz
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:06 pm
Location: Cónaidhm na Rúise
Contact:

Behind the Iron Curtain

Post by Vesoz » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:02 pm

Jewish History
There has been much talk of mass murders, gassing of Jews and so on. The Holocaustians of course want the world, well those who know, to continue to support the Zionist cause by German guilt. But is this what really happened? If the Nazis did it then they and the Krauts deserve everything we throw at em, but maybe the truth is somewhat different to the "official narrative".

A clue comes from the Prolific Russian writer, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, who in his book The Gulag Archipelago speaks of Russian prisoners of war taken by the Nazis. In Stalin’s eyes those soldiers and other prisoners were contaminated and had no place in Russian Soviet society. When they came back home they were to be sent straight to the labor camps of frozen Siberia. Many Jews followed this path. This includes the Jews found interned in the Nazi Concentration Camps.

Estimates suggest there were approximately 250,000 Jews in the Nazi concentration camps when World War II ended including thousands and thousands of others. Many "liberated" people had no choice but to remain in the very camps where they were imprisoned. Instead of concentration camps they were now Displaced Persons (DP) camps and they were displaced persons. For the time being they were kept in the same camps: this happened all over the Soviet Sector. Some returned to the communist Polish regime when they came back to Poland they came back to pogroms. Literal pogroms. Tens of Jews, if not hundreds, were killed, perhaps thousands.

Jews who found themselves behind the Iron Curtain, especially in Russia, now found themselves under a completely different type of oppression – an oppression in many ways as dark as German oppression. To Stalin anyone who had contact with the pathogen called “the West” was sent to a Siberian gulag a long with the Russian people and soldiers who came into contact with the Germans.

Rabbi Greenwald from Toronto, an enormous Torah scholar, who at one point ended up in Siberia after the war. A Hungarian Jew, he had been forcibly conscripted into a work battalion of the Romanian army, which was allied with the Nazis. He survived a year-and-a-half in that battalion until the Russians captured them, and sent them all to Siberia.

Between the malnutrition and the winter cold, people were falling like flies. At least when they were fighting they had hope of the war ending, the ex concentration camp prisoners now in a Soviet Gulag died of despair. Now, there was no hope, just an end. People were broken in their spirit even before their bodies. Greenwald was told by the Commandant to write a letter explaining how he was forced to work for the Romanians. The penalty for writing such a note was instant execution. Many times guards convinced prisoners to write a small explanation – and then shot them for writing it. Despite the danger, Rabbi Greenwald wrote the note and eventually released.

The Russians today have good reason to support the official narrative, though they do not emphasize the holocaust as much as the West: perhaps this is because they know the truth. The displaced people of Eastern Europe were in their custody.

In December 2001, Ambassador JD Bindenagel, Special Representative of the US Department of State for Holocaust Issues, gave this insight to German publisher Die Zeit

Tragically, many millions of victims of the Holocaust were trapped behind the Iron Curtain in the post-war period. They never got the money that was paid out to their governments. Only after the fall of the wall could they be helped, so Germany established a hardship fund for Jewish victims in the 1990s.




Ambassador JD Bindenagel Special Representative of the US Department of State for Holocaust Issues had been involved in compensation negotiations between the German Government and Jewish interest groups led by The World Jewish Congress and affiliate agencies.

In original German....

Tragischerweise waren in der Nachkriegszeit aber viele Millionen Opfer des Holocaust hinter dem Eisernen Vorhang gefangen. Sie haben das Geld, das an ihre Regierungen ausgezahlt wurde, nie bekommen. Erst nach dem Fall der Mauer konnte man ihnen helfen, Deutschland richtete daher in den 90er Jahren einen Härtefonds für jüdische Opfer ein

It does seem that the Soviet involvement is the real holocaust.

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 26812
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Behind the Iron Curtain

Post by Nessie » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:15 am

Vesoz wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:02 pm
......

Estimates suggest there were approximately 250,000 Jews in the Nazi concentration camps when World War II ......
Think about that. If the Nazis had not been mass killing Jews, then there would have been many more than that liberated from Nazi camps.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 4945
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh. Swabia
Contact:

Re: Behind the Iron Curtain

Post by Huntinger » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:37 am

Nessie wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:15 am
Think about that. If the Nazis had not been mass killing Jews, then there would have been many more than that liberated from Nazi camps.
Think not, disease, war, pogroms, Soviet assimilation can account for most of it. A few bits and pieces to clean up but basically the holocaust is explained. Not the Germans.
𝕽𝖊𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖘𝖘𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖙𝖘𝖉𝖎𝖊𝖓𝖘𝖙

User avatar
Trolljegeren
Posts: 1185
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:20 am
Location: Raufarhöfn
Contact:

Re: Behind the Iron Curtain

Post by Trolljegeren » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:49 am

Huntinger wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:37 am
Think not, disease, war, pogroms, Soviet assimilation can account for most of it. A few bits and pieces to clean up but basically the holocaust is explained. Not the Germans.
Pretty much it, those Gulags in Siberia get to -40C on a regular basis in Winter. Breathing the air can kill as your lungs freeze. Poor supply lines, no food basically and very much a lack of respect from the Soviets. Stalin and Hitler divided Europe between them in 1939 at the time of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. They jointly invaded Poland and the Baltic states. It was Stalin's decision to do that that allowed Hitler two years in which to invade Western Europe. And the Soviet Union -- the Russian people -- then paid the price. They then suffered when Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, for which the Soviet Union was basically unprepared. The many, many millions of people who died all died unnecessarily. Had Stalin not participated, had he not had a union with Hitler at the beginning, then maybe [those people] would be alive today.

Ekkert er eftirsjá
Nordisk motstandsbevegelse

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 26812
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Behind the Iron Curtain

Post by Nessie » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:03 am

Huntinger wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:37 am
Nessie wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:15 am
Think about that. If the Nazis had not been mass killing Jews, then there would have been many more than that liberated from Nazi camps.
Think not, disease, war, pogroms, Soviet assimilation can account for most of it. A few bits and pieces to clean up but basically the holocaust is explained. Not the Germans.
The Korherr Report has 10 million Jews in Europe in 1937, by 1943 that had reduced by 4 million and by 1945 the Allies liberated only 250,000.

Please show how many died from disease, war and pogroms and how many went from Nazi captivity to Soviet assimilation.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Trolljegeren
Posts: 1185
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:20 am
Location: Raufarhöfn
Contact:

Re: Behind the Iron Curtain

Post by Trolljegeren » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:15 am

Nessie wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:03 am
Huntinger wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:37 am
Nessie wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:15 am
Think about that. If the Nazis had not been mass killing Jews, then there would have been many more than that liberated from Nazi camps.
Think not, disease, war, pogroms, Soviet assimilation can account for most of it. A few bits and pieces to clean up but basically the holocaust is explained. Not the Germans.
The Korherr Report has 10 million Jews in Europe in 1937, by 1943 that had reduced by 4 million and by 1945 the Allies liberated only 250,000.

Please show how many died from disease, war and pogroms and how many went from Nazi captivity to Soviet assimilation.
It was said that it is estimated 250 000 were interned by the Soviets not the Allies which to me means the UK and the US. Many more were "liberated" elsewhere. Please stop asking questions and do your own research for a change. For over a century, the Jewish World Almanac has been widely regarded as the most authentic source for the world’s Jewish population numbers. Academics all over the world, including the editors of the Encyclopedia Britannica, used to rely on the accuracy of those numbers. Here is what the World Alamanacs of 1933 and 1948 had to say about the world population of Jews. the world population of Jews increased (!) between 1933 and 1948 from 15,315,000 to 15,753,000. If the German government under Adolf Hitler had – as alleged – murdered six million Jews those losses should have been reflected in the Jewish population numbers quoted in the World Almanac. This is another topic but should answer your question.
Image
Almanac 1933
Image
Almanac 1948
How those figure were derived is unknown. Estimates perhaps as the real number of Jews in the USSR was unknown. However, 600 000 as mentioned did leave for the Netherlands. See Henry's post.

Ekkert er eftirsjá
Nordisk motstandsbevegelse

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 26812
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Behind the Iron Curtain

Post by Nessie » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:22 am

Trolljegeren wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:15 am
Nessie wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:03 am
Huntinger wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:37 am
Nessie wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:15 am
Think about that. If the Nazis had not been mass killing Jews, then there would have been many more than that liberated from Nazi camps.
Think not, disease, war, pogroms, Soviet assimilation can account for most of it. A few bits and pieces to clean up but basically the holocaust is explained. Not the Germans.
The Korherr Report has 10 million Jews in Europe in 1937, by 1943 that had reduced by 4 million and by 1945 the Allies liberated only 250,000.

Please show how many died from disease, war and pogroms and how many went from Nazi captivity to Soviet assimilation.
It was said that it is estimated 250 000 were interned by the Soviets not the Allies which to me means the UK and the US.
The claim made was "Estimates suggest there were approximately 250,000 Jews in the Nazi concentration camps when World War II ended..."
Many more were "liberated" elsewhere.
How many more and where?
Please stop asking questions and do your own research for a change.
If you make a claim, it is up to you to evidence it.
For over a century, the Jewish World Almanac has been widely regarded as the most authentic source for the world’s Jewish population numbers. Academics all over the world, including the editors of the Encyclopedia Britannica, used to rely on the accuracy of those numbers. Here is what the World Alamanacs of 1933 and 1948 had to say about the world population of Jews. the world population of Jews increased (!) between 1933 and 1948 from 15,315,000 to 15,753,000. If the German government under Adolf Hitler had – as alleged – murdered six million Jews those losses should have been reflected in the Jewish population numbers quoted in the World Almanac. This is another topic but should answer your question.
.....
No, since, no denier yet has claimed that during WWII, under Nazi captivity, the Jewish population went up! Are you seriously suggesting that happened!
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Trolljegeren
Posts: 1185
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:20 am
Location: Raufarhöfn
Contact:

Re: Behind the Iron Curtain

Post by Trolljegeren » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:27 am

Nessie wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:22 am

No, since, no denier yet has claimed that during WWII, under Nazi captivity, the Jewish population went up! Are you seriously suggesting that happened!
You desire evidence and it is there officially. This is the official almanac. In 1933 the Almanac states there were 15 515 359 Jews; the 1948 Almanac gives an increase to 15 753 678. Perhaps you might like to explain why there is a claim of 6 million Jews missing.

Ekkert er eftirsjá
Nordisk motstandsbevegelse

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 4945
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh. Swabia
Contact:

Re: Behind the Iron Curtain

Post by Huntinger » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:11 am

Critics of the Almanac say this:
The difference between the 1938 and 1948 figures is thus 4,481,491. In 1949, however, the World Almanac gives a revised 1939 population of 16,643,120 giving a difference of between 1938 and 1947 of 5,376,520. Where the extra population between 1938 and 1939 came from is not cited, though one might speculate that it was based upon the Nazi estimates made in 1942 for the Wannsee Conference. Despite the apparent exactness of the numbers listed, the World Almanac warns that all numbers listed are estimates.
How convenient the Wannsee conference was used which was a secret meeting: One copy of the Protocol with circulated minutes of the meeting survived the war. It was found by Robert Kempner in March 1947. If 6 million Jews were missing we can all be confident this document would be hailed as truly factual world wide.
Interesting point in these figures is that the Jewish population of Europe fell in those years by 121 702 but rose in the US by 583 798.
The figures are estimates but good enough to assume especially in the US that there was a rise and 122 thousand deaths in Europe which can be attributable to disease, old age etc. No evidence of mass murder. If there was mass murder the people would be screaming from the roof tops to show the 6 -17 million murdered by the Nazis. The Almanac would be waved in everyones faces. If so people might have to concede the German National Socialists did some shit things. As it stands the evidence points away from this.
𝕽𝖊𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖘𝖘𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖙𝖘𝖉𝖎𝖊𝖓𝖘𝖙

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 26812
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Behind the Iron Curtain

Post by Nessie » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:59 pm

Trolljegeren wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:27 am
Nessie wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:22 am

No, since, no denier yet has claimed that during WWII, under Nazi captivity, the Jewish population went up! Are you seriously suggesting that happened!
You desire evidence and it is there officially. This is the official almanac. In 1933 the Almanac states there were 15 515 359 Jews; the 1948 Almanac gives an increase to 15 753 678. Perhaps you might like to explain why there is a claim of 6 million Jews missing.
The number killed (not missing) has been determined from evidence such as the Nazi's own records;

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/educ ... -telegram/

which showed the numbers sent to the AR (death) camps as 1,274,166 by the end of 1942 and;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rherr.html

which stated "these figures indicate that the Jewish population of Europe has already been reduced by 4 million. On the European continent (after Russia with c. 4 million) only Hungary (750,000, Rumania (302,000) and possibly France have large Jewish populations.
In addition to the abovementioned figures, if one takes into account the Jewish emigration, the excess mortality in the non-German countries of Middle and Western Europe and the unavoidable double-counting due to the fluctuation of the Jews, then the reduction of the Jewish population of Europe from 1937 to the beginning of 1943 could be estimated at 4 and a half million."

and the Einsatzgruppen Reports, for example

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rt101.html

"Sonderkommando 4a in collaboration with Einsatzgruppe HQ and two Kommandos of police regiment South, executed 33,771 Jews in Kiev on September 29 and 30, 1941....The Kommandos continued the liberation of the area from Jews and Communist elements. In the period covered by the report, the towns of Nikolayev and Kherson in particular were freed of Jews. Remaining officials there were appropriately treated. From September 16 to 30, 22,467 Jews and Communists were executed. Total number 35,782. "

So, how, during the war, when the Nazis themselves were recording huge drops in the Jewish population, did the Jewish population rise, as is claimed by the Almanac? The Almanac is clearly wrong.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 8 guests