Robert Litoff tells us WHERE THE JEWS WENT

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Nessie
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Re: Robert Litoff tells us WHERE THE JEWS WENT

Post by Nessie » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:57 pm

Werd, Kues may have the answer for you.

"On 4.5 we continued already with excavating by ourselves new pits in the vicinity of the Commander's Estate. This work also took 4 days.

On 11.5 a transport with Jews (1000 units) from Vienna arrived in Minsk and was immediately taken from the railway station to the above mentioned pit. For this purpose the Zug was deployed directly at the pit."

The Jews were resettled in pits.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Robert Litoff tells us WHERE THE JEWS WENT

Post by blake121666 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:49 pm

Here's an image of page 249 of the 1948 Almanac:

Image
1948 Almanac wrote:Source: Compilations from latest available data, 1938, by the American Jewish Committee, and the Jewish Statistical Bureau of the Synagogue Council of America, H. S. Linfield, director
1948 Almanac wrote:The American Jewish Committee, which gives the figures in the table below, estimated the Jewish population of the world, in 1939, as follows: ...
In other words, the 1948 Almanac's Jewish population figures are based on 1939 figures estimated from 1938 data. The 1948 Almanac is obviously not a good reference for info on 1948 Jewish population figures.

Spread my scan around to anyone tossing around the one Werd posted (which is from the bottom of page 572, btw).

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Re: Robert Litoff tells us WHERE THE JEWS WENT

Post by blake121666 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:22 pm

That scan of Werd's is noteworthy on another point as I see it. It gives the total number of Christians in North America as 90 million (47 million Roman Catholic, 1.2 million Orthodox, 42 million Protestant). The estimated population of the USA was around 140 million for 1948. How many USA citizens were not Christian in 1948? It HAD to have been at least 50 million since that list gives only 90 million Christians in all of North America. I don't think the majority of Americans were non-Christian in 1948. So those figures are screwy in that they imply a minority of Christians in the USA and Canada in 1948 (a small one too since I don't think Roman Catholics outnumbered Protestants in the USA and Canada in 1948).

EDIT: RIght above Werd's scan, the Roman Catholic population of the USA was given as 25 million. So the USA must have had 25 of the 47 million Roman Catholics in North America.

EDIT 2: On the next page (573) it says:
1948 Almanac p. 573 wrote:There were in continental United States in 1947, 256 Religious Bodies with 253,762 churches and an inclusive membership of 73,673,182, ...
So there were less than 70 million Christians in the USA (5 million are Jewish in the 74 million number) in 1948 (must've been about a third RC and 2/3 Prot). Page 208 estimates the USA population as about 141 million in 1946. So less than half the USA population was Christian?

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Re: Robert Litoff tells us WHERE THE JEWS WENT

Post by Nessie » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:38 pm

The best example of record keeping that I know of is the Netherlands. In the almanac the Jewish population is 156,817 in 1938. The post war population was calculated at 34,379 (Wiki using various sources). Werd has 34,379 potential witnesses from the Netherlands to Dutch Jews being resettled in the Russian east.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Robert Litoff tells us WHERE THE JEWS WENT

Post by blake121666 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:38 am

I made up a list from above of areas occupied by Germany during WWII and starred areas that no sensible person would argue that Jews weren't seriously affected in those starred areas. We could argue whether the numbers are correct or not, how many Jews were evacuated, etc; but the starred countries are known to have been involved in rounding up (and/or violence - e.g. Lithuania) of Jews. I didn't star countries where it's not clear to me that ALL Jews were affected (such as Rumania or Bulgaria) - even though we all know SOME Jews were definitely affected in each country on this list.

Code: Select all

Austria           191,408 *
Belgium            60,000 *
Bulgaria           48,398
Crimea             45,926
Czechoslovakia    356,830 *
Danzig             10,448 *
Estonia             4,302 *
France            240,000
Germany           240,000 *
Greece             72,791
Hungary           444,567 *
Latvia             93,479 *
Lithuania         155,125 *
Luxemburg           3,144 *
Netherlands       156,817 *
Norway              1,359
Poland          3,113,900 *
Rumania           900,000
Russia (Europe)   539,272 *
Russia (USSR)   3,020,141
Ukraine         1,574,428 *
White Russia      407,059 *
Yugoslavia         68,405 *
               ----------
TOTAL          11,747,799
STARRED         7,419,184
As you can see, the total is 11.8 million. The total of the starred areas is 7.4 million. Anyone who makes it sound like it is some kind of no-brainer that anyone would, a priori, think that the Germans didn't even have access to 6 million Jews during WWII is the one who needs to do the explaining of that position. At the very least, someone making this claim needs to say EXACTLY what happened to the Polish Jews. How was it that they were not under German control? How many Polish Jews were under German control? If less than about 3 million, why? The same goes for Ukraine and Hungary.

Poland (3 million) + Ukraine (1.5 million) + Hungary (.5 million) + Greater Reich (about .5 million) add up to over 5 million all by themselves. How did these Jews not fall under German control? Anyone making this claim absolutely requires a thorough understanding of EXACTLY how it is that these Jews slipped out of German control. No fuzzy "the Soviets evacuated them". Exactly how did the Soviets do this and where did they take them? Who in the USSR decided on this? What train lines did they take? I'm ok with the idea that millions of Jews were in fact able to flee these areas in some way or other. I am NOT ok with the idea that over 6 out of the possible 12 million were able to do this. Anyone making these type claims should understand that this is an extraordinary claim and requires solid evidence of mass transporting specifically and dedicatedly of Jews by the Soviets into unaffected areas - before anyone would even know that those areas would be eventually affected. When did the Soviets decide to evacuate their Polish Jews to Siberia and why? I am not denying the possibility of this having happened. I'd like to know who in the USSR (persons or organization(s)) were so focussed specifically on this HUGE "save the Jews" project. How did it come about that over half the Jews thought to have been in areas occupied by Germany slipped out of the grasp of the Germans?

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Re: Robert Litoff tells us WHERE THE JEWS WENT

Post by blake121666 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:18 pm

I see those numbers don't add up. There must be alot of double counting. If there were 8.9 million Jews in all of Europe, and 0.8 million in all of Asia, there couldn't have been about 12 million in the countries listed.

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Re: Robert Litoff tells us WHERE THE JEWS WENT

Post by Nessie » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:17 pm

Werd has run away from this thread since he has no evidence of Jews being resettled in the Russian east.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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