Bergs bogus challenges?

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Friedrich Paul Berg
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Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:03 pm

Nessie is another typical, incorrigible Jew. One sees such fanatical, deranged creatures again and again, especially within the extreme left. They make outrageous demands again and again and again, ad infinitum--hoping, of course, that resistance to their outrageous demands and LIES will eventually weaken and they will get some outrageous concession just so that they shut-up and go away.

Unless, Nessie can get the medical profession to rewrite its medical literature, he has lost on the bright cherry red appearance of CO caused corpses--once again. Unless, Nessie can get Yahweh or someone really powerful to rearrange nature and the universe, he has lost--once again. Will any of that persuade Nessie to stop arguing in circles, again and again? Of course, not! Nessie is a Jew. He really is different.

Friedrich Paul Berg

Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
http://www.Gaschamberhoax.com

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Nessie
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Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Nessie » Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:37 pm

been-there wrote:
Nessie wrote:I have won the debate.
You are deluding yourself.
Nessie wrote: Your claims about cherry red bodies are not backed up when you study all of the evidence available on what happens when people are poisoned to death with CO.
This is a continuation of the same delusion.
Nessie wrote: 1 - The medical texts which are clear about how many people discolour or show obvious cherry red before death, all say such a symptom is rare. That rareness is matched by only two witnesses commenting on it.
You showed in incapacity to read and understand mediacl texts which were referring medical practitioners on how to detect CO poisoning in the living and how to prevent deaths. The texts you are referring to were NOT on how to detect signs of people who were close to passing beyond any chances of recovery and survival.
That is not true. I have repeatedly used medical sources on acute or severe poisoning that if left untreated will kill. Hence the references to death in many. Here is a post with a list of such http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 450#p49758

They are for "Symptoms for acute CO poisoning", "High-level poisoning", "severe carbon monoxide poisoning" and all say cherry red is rare, unusual, 2-3%. Then one has "The symptoms of CO poisoning in order of increasing severity include the following:.....death". Note the last one is death and no mention of discolouration or cherry red.

You agree the texts are about "how to prevent deaths" and then try and claim they are not about doses of CO that will kill. That is contradictory. I am showing that all texts which comment on the number of times discolouration/cherry red appears agree there is no point in looking for discolouration or cherry red as it is rare and unreliable.

It is you and others who have failed to read the sources which are all about severe or acute which will kill and not chronic CO poisoning.
been-there wrote:
Nessie wrote:2 - You cannot explain why all texts agree lividity takes time to appear and that with CO poisoning it is cherry red, yet according to you they are cherry red already.
ALL reputable texts agree that lividity starts appearing withing thirty minutes of death. People who were still alive and showing the bright pink colouring have been shown to you, and have been ignored/disregarded by you. Some of such living victims of CO poisoning survived, and yet showed bright pinkness, evidence of which has also been provided to you, and ignored by you.
You dodge the question. Firstly the medical texts agree lividity appears within a range of 20 minutes and 3 hours. Read them again. Lividity starts within about 20 minutes of death, but its appearance is after that and can be up to 3 hours. Stop ignoring the time scale can take longer than 20 minutes.

I have shown from the texts people who have severe or acute CO rarely discolour which means, as I have said before, I accept some will. That some is about 2-3% So again, if according to you they are already cherry red on death, why are all the medical sources in agreement that lividity appears before the cherry can be seen?
been-there wrote:
Nessie wrote:So very simply put, few bodies gassed with CO will show any obvious signs of being discoloured and they were in graves or cremated before lividity clearly established itself. Hence few commented on discolouration.
You are behaving stupidly and obstinately. Thousands of allegedly gassed bodies could not possibly be removed from narrow doors of the claimed homicidal gas-chambers, checked for gold teeth, etc., and be "in graves or cremated before lividity clearly established itself".
PLUS, bright pinkness appears BEFORE lividity begins, for the umpteenth time. :roll:

Yert NONe of the so-called 'eye-witnesses' to mass gassings of Jews' ever mentioned it. On the contrary, they falsely claimed the bodies displayed other colouring such as yellow and blue.
Deal with the reality.
There are two eye witnesses speaking to bodies showing discolouration associated with CO poisoning. The rest is argument from incredulity based on you fixating with the 20 minutes time scale and ignoring it can also take up to 3 hours and it it does not fix and become clear as per Bergs photo till 6 to 12 hours after death.

You have also dodged that Berg's evidence about Vienna coroners criticises them, experts for failing to spot CO lividity in one out of three cases.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Nessie » Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:45 pm

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:Nessie is another typical, incorrigible Jew. One sees such fanatical, deranged creatures again and again, especially within the extreme left. They make outrageous demands again and again and again, ad infinitum--hoping, of course, that resistance to their outrageous demands and LIES will eventually weaken and they will get some outrageous concession just so that they shut-up and go away.

Unless, Nessie can get the medical profession to rewrite its medical literature, he has lost on the bright cherry red appearance of CO caused corpses--once again. Unless, Nessie can get Yahweh or someone really powerful to rearrange nature and the universe, he has lost--once again. Will any of that persuade Nessie to stop arguing in circles, again and again? Of course, not! Nessie is a Jew. He really is different.
.....
Berg is busted and reduced to a series of ad hominems and no refutation of my argument by use of evidence. He failed to notice (or noticed and ignored) that cherry red is only common once people have been dead and lividity has had time to settle and fix as per his photo of the dead lady. That time is 6 to 12 hours after death, shown here in multiple sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livor_mortis

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor ... idity.html

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Lividity.aspx

http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/ ... hypostasis
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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been-there
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Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by been-there » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:49 pm

Nessie wrote:
been-there wrote:
Nessie wrote:I have won the debate.
You are deluding yourself.
Nessie wrote: Your claims about cherry red bodies are not backed up when you study all of the evidence available on what happens when people are poisoned to death with CO.
This is a continuation of the same delusion.
Nessie wrote: 1 - The medical texts which are clear about how many people discolour or show obvious cherry red before death, all say such a symptom is rare. That rareness is matched by only two witnesses commenting on it.
You showed an incapacity to read and understand medical texts which were referring medical practitioners on how to detect CO poisoning in the living and how to prevent deaths. The texts you are referring to were NOT on how to detect signs of people who were close to passing beyond any chances of recovery and survival.
That is not true. I have repeatedly used medical sources on acute or severe poisoning that if left untreated will kill. Hence the references to death in many. Here is a post with a list of such http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 450#p49758
Ho-hum.
:roll:
Your own sources refute your argument:
"One classic sign of carbon monoxide poisoning is more often seen in the dead rather than the living – people have been described as looking red-cheeked and healthy. However, since this 'cherry-red' appearance is common only in the deceased, and is unusual in living people, it is not considered a useful diagnostic sign in clinical medicine."
Now read it again and again until you get it.
Cherry red colouring is a "classic sign" of carbon monoxide poisoning BUT it is not considered a useful "diagnostic sign" in clinical medicine for medical practioners seeking to prevent deaths. That is because by the time noticeable cherry red colouring is occuring it is often TOO LATE to save the victims.
Get it?

Now we have not been discussing detecting early signs of CO poisoning. We have been discussing alleged witnesses allegedly handling the deceased corpses of hundreds of thousands of allegedly CO gassed victims.
Corpses, which according to your own references, should have shown the "classic sign" of cherry red colouring.
Is any of this getting through to you?
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Nessie
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Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Nessie » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:57 pm

been-there wrote:.......Ho-hum.
:roll:
Your own sources refute your argument:
"One classic sign of carbon monoxide poisoning is more often seen in the dead rather than the living – people have been described as looking red-cheeked and healthy. However, since this 'cherry-red' appearance is common only in the deceased, and is unusual in living people, it is not considered a useful diagnostic sign in clinical medicine."
Now read it again and again until you get it.
Cherry red colouring is a "classic sign" of carbon monoxide poisoning BUT it is not considered a useful "diagnostic sign" in clinical medicine for medical practioners seeking to prevent deaths. That is because by the time noticeable cherry red colouring is occuring it is often TOO LATE to save the victims.
Get it?
I get that you have misunderstood what is being said. It says that discolouration is rare in the living and is common in the dead. You have dodged the other evidence which that passage does not mention that the cherry red in the dead is once lividity has appeared and then set in. That starts to appear between 20 minutes and 3 hours and is set in between 6 and 12 hours. There is a gap, a gap which allows the dead to be buried or cremated before cherry red is obvious.

been-there wrote:Now we have not been discussing detecting early signs of CO poisoning. We have been discussing alleged witnesses allegedly handling the deceased corpses of hundreds of thousands of allegedly CO gassed victims.
Corpses, which according to your own references, should have shown the "classic sign" of cherry red colouring.
Is any of this getting through to you?
That passage does not say on dying from CO poisoning people will be cherry red. Again, why do all the references to cherry red relate to post mortem when lividity appears as the cherry red blood settles in the outer skin at the lowest part of the body? Why is there no reference to people who die from CO are cherry red at the time of death?

Is that getting through to you?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by been-there » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:14 am

Nessie wrote:
BT wrote:Your own sources refute your argument:
"One classic sign of carbon monoxide poisoning is more often seen in the dead rather than the living – people have been described as looking red-cheeked and healthy. However, since this 'cherry-red' appearance is common only in the deceased, and is unusual in living people, it is not considered a useful diagnostic sign in clinical medicine."
Now read it again and again until you get it.
Cherry red colouring is a "classic sign" of carbon monoxide poisoning BUT it is not considered a useful "diagnostic sign" in clinical medicine for medical practioners seeking to prevent deaths. That is because by the time noticeable cherry red colouring is occuring it is often TOO LATE to save the victims.
Get it?
I get that you have misunderstood what is being said. It says that discolouration is rare in the living and is common in the dead. You have dodged the other evidence which that passage does not mention that the cherry red in the dead is once lividity has appeared and then set in. That starts to appear between 20 minutes and 3 hours and is set in between 6 and 12 hours. There is a gap, a gap which allows the dead to be buried or cremated before cherry red is obvious.
You are quite clearly delusional and obstinately so. Nowhere does the word "rare" appear there in that particular quote. By claiming it does appear there, this shows you are more delusional than dishonest. But this has been pointed out to you now. So... You now no longer have the choice to be self-deluded. The choice now is whether to be honest or not about your previous delusion.
And you are fixating on a time factor to ignore the fact that whatever the time delay, corpses WOULD NOT APEAR BLUE, as false eye-witness testimony maintained.
Be honest now.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Nessie
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Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Nessie » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:04 am

been-there wrote:
Nessie wrote:
BT wrote:Your own sources refute your argument:
"One classic sign of carbon monoxide poisoning is more often seen in the dead rather than the living – people have been described as looking red-cheeked and healthy. However, since this 'cherry-red' appearance is common only in the deceased, and is unusual in living people, it is not considered a useful diagnostic sign in clinical medicine."
Now read it again and again until you get it.
Cherry red colouring is a "classic sign" of carbon monoxide poisoning BUT it is not considered a useful "diagnostic sign" in clinical medicine for medical practioners seeking to prevent deaths. That is because by the time noticeable cherry red colouring is occuring it is often TOO LATE to save the victims.
Get it?
I get that you have misunderstood what is being said. It says that discolouration is rare in the living and is common in the dead. You have dodged the other evidence which that passage does not mention that the cherry red in the dead is once lividity has appeared and then set in. That starts to appear between 20 minutes and 3 hours and is set in between 6 and 12 hours. There is a gap, a gap which allows the dead to be buried or cremated before cherry red is obvious.
You are quite clearly delusional and obstinately so. Nowhere does the word "rare" appear there in that particular quote. By claiming it does appear there, this shows you are more delusional than dishonest. But this has been pointed out to you now. So... You now no longer have the choice to be self-deluded. The choice now is whether to be honest or not about your previous delusion.
And you are fixating on a time factor to ignore the fact that whatever the time delay, corpses WOULD NOT APEAR BLUE, as false eye-witness testimony maintained.
Be honest now.
The article uses unusual and I used rare, they are synonyms. From google

rare 1
rɛː/
adjective
adjective: rare; comparative adjective: rarer; superlative adjective: rarest
(of an event, situation, or condition) not occurring very often.
synonyms: unusual, uncommon, unfamiliar, out of the ordinary, atypical, singular, remarkable, recherché, special, precious "a collector of rare stamps and coins"


I have been describing discolouration in those living but who are not treated as rare for some time now. That is because the evidence states it is rare, unusual, 2-3%, unreliable in its appearance.

Stop fixating on one piece of evidence or one word and look at what all of the evidence has to say. It is clearly that people dying of CO poisoning rarely discolour. That explains why all of the entries regarding lividity state it is like any other and the cherry red takes time to form and become obvious. There is a time gap. Berg missed that out.

The blue has been explained to you before. It is a symptom of suffocation and descriptions of people being crammed into the chambers along with signs of being blue evidence some died from suffocation and not CO poisoning.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Nessie » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:32 am

Berg, I thought you wanted to debate?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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been-there
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Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by been-there » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:26 am

Nessie wrote:Berg, I thought you wanted to debate?


NESSIE: "A mere flesh wound from poisoning the well, non-sequiter, tu quoque, and cherry-picking, etc. Have at you. C'mon you coward."
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Nessie » Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:04 pm

How does that progress anything? You are such a hypocrite been-there.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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