"The Most Famous Holocaust Photo a Fraud" ?

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theblackrabbitofinlé
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Re: "The Most Famous Holocaust Photo a Fraud" ?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé »

Roberto Luc wrote:The Rabbit is angry because it was shown his "thesis" is wrong. Unconciously he discovered the NY Times used a manipulated photo and still have suggested that the original picture is the fake photo. Freak Rabbit.
In your "thesis" robbie, are the NYT "manipulated photo" and the Mermelstein "manipulated photo" the same manipulated photo or were they coincidentally manipulated in the same manner?
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947


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theblackrabbitofinlé
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Re: "The Most Famous Holocaust Photo a Fraud" ?

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Roberto Luc wrote:The problem is that the original photo is that one with the man standing. Did he talk about this detail?
No, he doesn't mention the fact that Simon Toncman was doctored into the photo.

He doesn't talk about Elie Wiesel being in it either.
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Roberto Luc
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Re: "The Most Famous Holocaust Photo a Fraud" ?

Post by Roberto Luc »

theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:
Roberto Luc wrote:The Rabbit is angry because it was shown his "thesis" is wrong. Unconciously he discovered the NY Times used a manipulated photo and still have suggested that the original picture is the fake photo. Freak Rabbit.
In your "thesis" robbie, are the NYT "manipulated photo" and the Mermelstein "manipulated photo" the same manipulated photo or were they coincidentally manipulated in the same manner?
If he used the NYT "manipulated photo", the photo in his book is obviously the same manipulated one. What I said and I repeat it is any manipulated photo that he used doesn't change the fact this is the original photo.

I can suppose the reason he may have used this photo at the time, i wasn't so easy to check this material as it's today with some clicks on web, in any case I don't know his current opinion on this photo in his book cover.

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theblackrabbitofinlé
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Re: "The Most Famous Holocaust Photo a Fraud" ?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé »

Another version of the photo is held by the Imperial War Museum, London. It originates from a collection of approximately 250,000 photographs donated to the museum by the US Embassy in 1947.
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205194348

Although the photo provides no answer to the debate on whether Simon Toncman was doctored into the photograph by the U.S. Army or doctored out by The New York Times and Mel Mermelstein, it does prove that the photograph held by the NARA has been cropped, and is not therefore an authentic reproduction of the negative.

Composites of the IWM and NARA versions show that both photographs have been cropped:

Image

Image
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: "The Most Famous Holocaust Photo a Fraud" ?

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theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:Another version of the photo is held by the Imperial War Museum, London. It originates from a collection of approximately 250,000 photographs donated to the museum by the US Embassy in 1947.
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205194348

Although the photo provides no answer to the debate on whether Simon Toncman was doctored into the photograph by the U.S. Army or doctored out by The New York Times and Mel Mermelstein, it does prove that the photograph held by the NARA has been cropped, and is not therefore an authentic reproduction of the negative.

Composites of the IWM and NARA versions show that both photographs have been cropped:

Image

Image
regardless of who owns the doctored photo, and who is responsible for it, the fact that it exists is a black eye on the believer side
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theblackrabbitofinlé
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Re: "The Most Famous Holocaust Photo a Fraud" ?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé »

Blogbuster wrote:regardless of who owns the doctored photo, and who is responsible for it, the fact that it exists is a black eye on the believer side
That's a truth BB.

I'm of the opinion that the NYT would not have dared doctor an official U.S. Army photograph, and the forgery was committed by atrocity propagandists within the U.S. Army.
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: "The Most Famous Holocaust Photo a Fraud" ?

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theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:
Blogbuster wrote:regardless of who owns the doctored photo, and who is responsible for it, the fact that it exists is a black eye on the believer side
That's a truth BB.

I'm of the opinion that the NYT would not have dared doctor an official U.S. Army photograph, and the forgery was committed by atrocity propagandists within the U.S. Army.
A strong possibility
Blogbuster

Get the facts about the strange phenomenon of Holocaust hate blogging!
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theblackrabbitofinlé
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Re: "The Most Famous Holocaust Photo a Fraud" ?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé »

I recently discovered that the Greek newspaper I Kathimerini (Η Καθημερινή = The Daily) featured a cropped version of the photo in its edition of Saturday, May 5, 1945, the day prior to the NYT Magazine publishing its infamous Simon Toncman-less version.

As I've shown elsewhere, the so-called 'original version'which is evidently not true — was been published in various US newspaper from April 29th onwards, but what makes these Greek appearance notable is:

1. It's the earlier appearance outside of the US I know of

2. The gentleman in the centre of the top bunk has most of his head cropped off in the so-called "original version" and in all the versions published in April-May of 1945 that I'm presently aware of, yet his full head is present in this Greek version.

click to enlarge
Image

A native Greek translated the photo caption for me as follows [ it could probably use a little rephrasing]:
How the prisoners in the German concentration camp of Buchenwald were fed. Sleeping on wooden shelves of four floors. Some barely having enough strength to get up and look at the photographer. The ones using metal plates as pillows barely managed to turn their heads.
click to enlarge
Image
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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theblackrabbitofinlé
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Re: "The Most Famous Holocaust Photo a Fraud" ?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé »

As has previously been mentioned on this thread and elsewhere; on the cover of the three editions of his self-published memoirs [original 1979, revised edition 1981, reprint 1991] Mel Mermelstein published a version of *the photo* in which Simon Toncman [the standing man] is absent.

I recently discovered an article about Merlmelstein in the 9 July 1977 edition of the Independent Press-Telegram [Long Beach, CA] which features a photograph of Mermelstein pointing to his younger self in a framed version of a photo in which Toncman is present.

Image


I thinks it's likely that the framed photograph was Mermelstein's property, because the same version he's holding in the IP-T photograph appeared in another article about him in a Nevada newspaper in 1981.

Identical white marks [which may originally have been tape] confirm both newspapers feature the same version of the photograph:

Image


Aside from this being another example of Merlmelstein pictured in the press holding a different version of the Buchenwald photo to which he published on his memoirs; the photo in the 1977 IP-T article proves that Merlmelstein was well aware of the Toncman-present version before he published a Toncman-absent version on the cover of his 1979 memoirs.
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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theblackrabbitofinlé
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Re: "The Most Famous Holocaust Photo a Fraud" ?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé »

Below is an extract from Mermelstein's 1994 USC Shoah interview in which he shows a Toncman-present version of the photograph displayed in his home.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEVDoUt3t4w

Judging by the photo and its frame, I think it's the same version he was pictured holding in the 18 October 1981 edition of Newsweek magazine:

Image

But the copy in Newsweek & the USC Shoah video does not have the 4 white marks that were visible in the version he was pictured holding in 1977, which was also in a different frame.
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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