The Buchenwald gas chamber

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theblackrabbitofinlé
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The Buchenwald gas chamber

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:29 pm

I've recently chanced across several documents at Kew which reference the Buchenwald gas chamber, so I thought It was a good idea to comply them here. If anyone else has any details or musings on the lost gas chamber of Buchenwald, your contribution to this thread would be appreciated.
Subject:— THIES, Richard
Born:— 27/8/25.
Ref No. 3/3/Pf.47770.
2nd April 1948.
(To) Legal Divison,
65 HQ CCG(HE),
BAOR 15.

(From) OC,
No.3 R and I S,
c/o No.3 Civilian Internment Camp,
408 HQ CCG(HE),
BAOR 23.

1. Please find attached a copy and translation of statements made by the a/n who is due to be transferred to this camp from the Middle East on 23rd April 1948.

2. According to the deposition by the a/n taken on 29th Aug'47 at 380 PW Camp,MEF, he admits:—

(a) to having taken part in the in the [sic] mass execution of Polish subjects in the vicinity of WARSAW in April 1943 as a member of the firing squad.

(b) whilst having been employed as a guard with the Guard Bn BUCHENWALD to have escorted to,and forced into, the Gas Chambers, victims of unknown nationality at BUCHENWALD Concentration Camp between 17th March and 26Th April 1944.

[...]

[TNA PRO WO 309/376, unfortunately the "translation of statements made by" Richard Thies are not found in this particular file.]
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: The Buchenwald gas chamber

Post by neugierig » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:04 am

Well done, Rabbit, thank you for that.

Regards
Wilf
Ohne Meinungsfreiheit gibt es keine Freiheit (frei nach I. Kant)

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Re: The Buchenwald gas chamber

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:23 pm

Thanks Wilf.

The document quoted below is found in TNA PRO 309/374 alongside the German original which is signed 'Heinrich Rohde'.
DECLARANT: H FRICKE
DECLARATION
Appears the prisoner of war Heinrich ROHDE and says, to have been acknowledged with the subject of the interrogation and exhorted to deposit the truth.

Personal: I am named Heinrich ROHDE, born the 21.7.09 at TRITTAU/Schleswig, single, professional farm labourer. I have not belonged to the Party or one of her organisations.

Facts: I was 12 years in a concentration camp, and over 7 years in the concentration camp EMSLAND and 5 years in the concentration camp BUCHENWALD.

[...]

CONCENTRATION CAMP BUCHENWALD

3. In October 1940 I was sent over to the concentration camp of BUCHENWALD. For political prisoners in B. 1940 - 1945 about 3000 have died an unnatural death. This only regards Reich Germans.

I was sent to BUCHENWALD with 72 arrested. We were led before the pol. section and had already at the beginning by blows and kicks in the abdomen 10 dead. We remaining 62 came in the penal company. There we had to execute most hard labour in quarries and such, and even 15 hours a day. The feeding was very bad. We marched out with work detachments to the strength of 250 men each morning. There - from generally only 120 - 140 came back in the evening. All the others lost their lives either through shooting, mischievous work accidents, or by being driven into electrical tensioned wire. After I had endured the first 3 months I came in Block 4. Here I was 14 days. After these 14 days, a so named, monthly action was accomplished. In the manege (riding school) 500 Russian troopers, officers and commisioners [sic] were executed by neckshot.

These actions were accomplished once a month, mostly 300 - 1000 prisoners were shot. The bodies of the shot were then brought by work detachments (arrestants) in the crematory and burned there.

1 - 3 times monthly 200 - 1000 Jews German and foreigners with their families were sent in.

These were then separated, men, women, children and led in the "Bathroom", there they were killed by gas pouring through the showers.

[...]
EDIT:

Should have mentioned: although this translation is undated, the original Vernehmung is dated 7.7.1945.
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: The Buchenwald gas chamber

Post by neugierig » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:00 pm

Rabbit, I hope you don’t mind me adding a little to this, if it is a problem, maybe our esteemed Moderator can move it?

What I have is also from Buchenwald, about the stories told originally, although no mention of a gas chamber is made here.

The following is from the:
“Report of the Committee requested by Gen. Eisenhower through the Chief of Staff, Gen. Marshall to the Congress of the United States relative to Atrocities and other conditions in Concentration Camps in Germany”.
http://www.milspecmanuals.com/?page=sho ... gory_id=73

This report was published May 1945. This committee was formed following the reading of a Eisenhower telegram on April 20th in the house of representatives. Here it is:

“We are constantly finding German camps in which they have placed political prisoners where unspeakable conditions exist. From my own personal observation, I can state unequivocally that all written statements up to now do n o t paint the full horrors.
In view of these facts, you may think it advisable to invite about 12 congressional leaders and 12 leading editors to see these camps. If so, I shall be glad to take these groups to one of these camps. Such a visit will show them without any trace of doubt the full evidence of the cruelty practiced by the Nazis in such places as normal procedure.
A similar invitation is being sent to similar representative British groups.”


At this time, it was still ‘political prisoners’, later it turned into Jews, with a few others thrown in. Just one comment on the telegram: Eisenhower makes of course no mention of the total destruction as existed in Germany, he portrays what was found in the camps as “normal procedure”, when in fact the total destruction of supply lines was the reason for the deplorable conditions. This whole investigation was staged plainly for propaganda purposes. And also, the goodly allies needed an excuse so as to try and justify their crimes committed on Germans.

Now to Buchenwald (They also visited other camps):

“On the morning of April 24, following its arrival in Paris on the afternoon of Monday the 23rd, the committee… left Paris by airplane for Weimar…and proceeded from Weimar by automobile to the outskirts of the city, where was located the German political concentration camp of Buchenwald… The prisoners at this camp included the intelligentsia and "leadership " groups from continental Europe, as well as "democratic" or anti-Nazi Germans and their relatives. Among the 20,000 survivors were about 4,000 Jews.
The mission of this camp was an extermination factory and the means of extermination were starvation, beatings, tortures, in credibly crowded sleeping conditions, and sickness.”


Wow, 4 000 Jews left alive, with the camp an extermination factory. But beside the highly efficient killing methods mentioned above, we also have this:

“For instance, in the "Little Camp," where prisoners slept 16 to a shelf, any infraction of discipline – particularly an attempt to escape – not infrequently resulted in all 16 being condemned. Such persons were immediately marched on foot to a small door in the fence of the back yard at a point immediately adjacent to the incinerator building. This door opened inward until it hit a door stop which held it in position parallel to the building's wall, thus creating a corridor 4 feet wide and 3 feet deep. At the far end was an opening about 4 feet by 4 feet, flush with the ground, the head of a concrete shaft, about 13 feet deep, the bottom floor of which was a continuation of the concrete floor of the room at the front end of the basement. The condemned prisoners, on being hurried and pushed through the door in the fence, inevitably fell into this shaft and crashed 13 feet down to the cement cellar floor. This room, on the floor at one end of which they now found themselves, was the strangling room. As they hit the floor they were garroted, with a short double-end noose, by SS guards and hung on hooks along the side walls, about 6 feet above the floor, the row of hooks being 45 or 50 in number. At the time of our visit all of the hooks except 5 had been removed, but we could observe the holes where the other hooks had previously been. When a consignment had been hung up, any who were still struggling were stunned by a wooden mallet, which was exhibited to us in the chamber still bearing stains of blood…”.

How’s that for German efficiency, eh? We also have a description of the crematorium, but this is long enough.

This is to show, as the Rabbit has done, what the original lie, pardon, story looked like, all of it based on witness accounts. Most of it has been dropped unceremoniously, with no explanation offered.

Lies upon lies, followed by more lies. And why should I believe what is offered now, when the gas chamber story rests solely on stories, lies, told by witnesses?

Regards
Wilf
Ohne Meinungsfreiheit gibt es keine Freiheit (frei nach I. Kant)

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Re: The Buchenwald gas chamber

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:33 pm

Thanks for all that info Wilf.

Below, also from TNA PRO WO 309/374, is an SS confession about the Buchenwald gas chamber, but first the covering note:
SUBJECT:- War Crimes.
14 Aug 45.
[unreadable due to treasury tag hole in the paper] Branch (WCS),
[unreadable due to treasury tag hole in the paper] Army Group,

1. Herewith are three statements made by persons under interrogation at RHEINBERG and WICKRATHBERG PW cages together with translations.

2. The witnesses appear to have first hand knowledge of concentration camps including BUCHENWALD and of a camp for extermination of Jews at KULMHOF, WARTHBRÜCKEN, POLAND. There is also an account of war crimes committed in HOLLAND.

'A' Branch.
ISERLOHN.
Tel Ext : 103.
GF/AW______
SDS/APO
[signature illegible]
Lieutenant-General,
Commander, 1 Corps District.
COPY
S.S. Senior Troop Leader Gunter Herman Frich
(Ober Schar Fuhrer)
Appears the Waffen SS Oberschar Fuhrer Gunter - Herman FRICH and declares :—
The 1.12.1925 I was born in Hamburg. I visited the primary school at Hamburg and following this for half a year the superior agricultural proffional school in Arnsberg. I was then in the agricultural exploitation of my father and now and then active as a milker by other farmers.

My wish was always to come to the Waffen SS and even in Hamburg - Fulsbüttel.
By the enlistment an officer of the SS asked me if I would take the SS oath, if I could see blood and if I was hard enough to deal with prisoners of concentration camps. I affirmated [sic] this question. I was further pointed out that itwas [sic] an honour to do service in the SS.

[...]

In Nijmegen I was wounded and came back to the general hospital Bruchühl, District Herford near Osnabruck. After my recovery I reported voluntary again for guard duties in concentration camps and came to the concentration camp Buchenwald.
The concentration camp was the worst camp which I have seen. The treatment and accommodation were unworthy of mankind. The prisoners housed in earth-holes and stonehouses as well as in the ovens [sic] of the in the [sic] camp Buchenwald standing limestone factory. The feeding was conform with the labour performance of the prisoners.
One Sunday morning I heard the crying of a woman's voice. I was called by the SS Obersturmfuhrer GUSTAV WILBRETT and became the order to hit the woman, it was the one who had tus cried before — with a whip to which were attached 6 leaden balls and drive her in a dark room. I then drove this woman as had been ordered to me in this room and went back. I was acknowledged that this woman had to undress herself there and had to stay three days and three nights naked in the room.
For the reason of this punishment the Sturmfuhrer declared, the woman had begged him for bread while she had become nothing more to eat for already three days. Only from bread crumbs which she searched under the tables on which had eat the SS men had she appeased her hunger in some measure. SS Obersturmfuhrer GUSTAV WILBRETT lives in Magdeburg, Lubeckerstr 376. He was because of his cruelty often threatened by the prisoners. He also said to me that he was one of the first who had to leave his life after the war.
In the camp at Buchenwald I also saw chairs on whose seats nails were left in and thereto used to punish prisoners whilst they had to lay themselves on these chairs.
Once I also became a mission to disarm, respectively dig out T mines and other explosives in the Schleswiget Heide with 6 prisoners. The prisoners were fetched from their earth-holes, they then became their eyes blindfolded and were so brought to a ready standing lorry, then they were driven in the moor. So the prisoners did not catch sight how in reality the camp looked like.
Before the execution of this order i was told once more I should take care because mine blowing was dangerous work. By the execution of the blowing two prisoners of my detachment then lost their lives.
it was known to me that there was a combustion room in the camp. I cannot give details of this because only officers were allowed to come in the vicinity of this building.
There was also a gas chamber, Leader of this installation was the SS Sturmfuhrer HERBERT EMIL. For this man it was a pleasure to drive daily 40 to 50 prisoners through this gas chamber. The named Sturmfuhrer stood supplied with a gas mask at the entrance of the gas chamber, and drove the prisoners inside.
He became as a special favour good food and higher pay.
[...]

The above is clearly a shoddy translation, so below is a cropped photo of the crucial text from the German original, signed 'Gunter Frich'

Image

EDIT:

I'm reliably informed that the above is not a shoddy translation, but a literal translation.
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: The Buchenwald gas chamber

Post by neugierig » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:59 am

You are welcome, Rabbit, and thanks back for the last info, for it is very important as well. We are repeatedly told that “The Holocaust” happened because SS guards, etc., confessed to it. And here we have one of them confessing to non-existing gas chambers. Why then should I take the other ‘confessions’ into consideration? I don’t.

BTW, as the translation goes it is adequate, but the last sentence from the original is missing:

“Ich habe in Buchenwald die Massengräber der Verhungerten gesehen“.

Lousy German but it says that he saw the mass graves of those who had died of starvation. Hmmm, have these graves ever been found?

Regards
Wilf
Ohne Meinungsfreiheit gibt es keine Freiheit (frei nach I. Kant)

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Re: The Buchenwald gas chamber

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:05 am

A recent doozie from the Cleveland Jewish News:
This Day, April 10, In Jewish History by Mitchell A. Levin

1945: U.S. Armed forces liberated the prison camp at Buchenwald, Germany. It was estimated that nearly 57,000 prisoners (mostly Jews) perished in the gas chambers of Buchenwald during its eight-year existence as a Nazi concentration camp.
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 7:19 pm | Updated: 1:11 am, Thu Apr 10, 2014.
http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/cjnc ... dbc90.html
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: The Buchenwald gas chamber

Post by Bob » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:34 am

Thank you for your contribution and effort, very much appreciated. I can add article by Mark Weber regarding Buchenwald gas chamber lie to have it all in one thread, but you are no doubt familiar with this piece.

We must remember, "all alleged gas chambers dropped so far were mistakes (read lies), but the rest based again on the self styled witnesses is true, honestly!"

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Re: The Buchenwald gas chamber

Post by Nessie » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:57 pm

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v07/v07p405_Weber.html

"In 1960 the Buchenwald gassing story was officially declared a fable. In that year, Martin Broszat of the anti-Hitler Institute for Contemporary History in Munich specifically stated that no one was ever gassed at Buchenwald. (27) Professor A.S. Balachowsky, a member of the Institut de France, likewise declared in November 1971: "I would like to confirm to you that no gas chamber as such existed at Buchenwald ..." (28) Holocaust writer Konnilyn Feig conceded in her book, Hitler's Death Camps, that Buchenwald did not have a gas chamber. (29) Today no serious historian still claims gassings there."

The one thing I agree with denier/revisionists is that the errors (lies if you want) of the past are still being repeated, particularly by the media today. That is wrong.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: The Buchenwald gas chamber

Post by been-there » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:46 pm

Nessie wrote:http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v07/v07p405_Weber.html

"In 1960 the Buchenwald gassing story was officially declared a fable. In that year, Martin Broszat of the anti-Hitler Institute for Contemporary History in Munich specifically stated that no one was ever gassed at Buchenwald. (27) Professor A.S. Balachowsky, a member of the Institut de France, likewise declared in November 1971: "I would like to confirm to you that no gas chamber as such existed at Buchenwald ..." (28) Holocaust writer Konnilyn Feig conceded in her book, Hitler's Death Camps, that Buchenwald did not have a gas chamber. (29) Today no serious historian still claims gassings there."

The one thing I agree with denier/revisionists is that the errors (lies if you want) of the past are still being repeated, particularly by the media today. That is wrong.
Thanks for this acknowledgement.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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