Nessie's Admission That there Is No Archaeological Proof Of Mass Graves At Treblinka II

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Nessie
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Re: Bobcat chickens out of a debate he laid down the challenge for.

Post by Nessie »

MrOlonzo wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 23:59
Nessie wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 16:06
Bobcat wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 16:04
Nessie wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 16:00
Turnagain wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 15:52 LOL! It's only a debate when Nessie gets to ask the questions and abuse his opponent. :lol: :lol:
No, it is only a debate when both sides agree to answer the other's questions and to not abuse their opponent. I agree to those conditions and await Bobcat to also agree. As long as he refuses to agree, there can be no debate.

We can debate Turnagain, because we answer each other's questions and we lay off the abuse. Bobcat, whose style of post I have come across before, is scared of debate with me, so he refuses to agree to the norms of debate.
Look at Nessie Run!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I've already answered the first question Nessie:

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=191667#p191667

Now it's your turn - chicken.
That is not a question I asked. What you propose is not a debate. I will debate you, only if you agree to the normal rules of a debate.
In this debate do you propose to demand that the other side accept whatever any archeologists claim to have found, no matter the strength of their evidence?
Not demand, ask. It is likely to be a future question. Bobcat seems surprised I said that archaeology does not prove what happened at TII. But, he is obsessed by graves and thinks I said archaeology cannot prove the existence of mass graves.
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Re: Nessie chickens out of a debate he now wishes he never accepted

Post by Bobcat »

Nessie:
"My claim is... selections took place for workers to be transported to other camps..."
Bobcat:
Right, and your claim is that "we know" up to 15,000 Jews were selected to be transited to other camps - correct?
Nessie:
No, 6500-9000.
Nessie:
There is evidence some (maximum 12-15,000) went to other camps.

The evidenced 12-15,000 who we know went to other camps

I have repeatedly accepted Hunts highest figure of 12-15,000.
It's Interesting how, according to you, "we know" 12-15,000 Jews were selected to go to other camps, yet your claim is now 6500-9000.

And it's interesting how you "have repeatedly accepted Hunts highest figure of 12-15,000" yet now you suddenly don't.

Your figures seem to change with the wind

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=191594#p191594

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=191595#p191595

and don't reflect what you claim is known. This seems to be an indication of a difficulty in accepting reality.

Have you got mental health issues?

Bobcat:
I need more information from you about how many Jews you claim were "buried, then exhumed and cremated and the cremains reburied" at TII before I can answer your question.
Nessie:
I am happy with the range of 840-860,000.
But Nessie, you have claimed that:
We know from witnesses and documents c850,000 people were sent to TII.
So according to you, "we know" that 850,000 Jews "were sent to TII" but now you claim that up to 860,000 Jews were buried at TII.

Your figures seem to change with the wind.

This seems to be an indication of a difficulty in accepting reality.

So, just to be clear hear; your claim for this debate about mass graves at Treblinka II is:

It has been proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, that, during the Treblinka II holocaust, no less than __?__ Jews were buried, then exhumed, then cremated and the cremains reburied into the same mass graves they were exhumed from.

Oh, just a reminder:
Q - #1 - The MAXIMUM number of jews that you can prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that were off-loaded from train cars directly into the Treblinka II camp; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 713,555
Nessie seems to think that more Jews were buried in Treblinka II than actually set foot in the camp!

:lol:
Last edited by Bobcat on 28 Jun 2021, 13:36, edited 14 times in total.
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Re: Nessie chickens out of a debate he now wishes he never accepted

Post by Bobcat »

[*
Nessie wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 09:06
MrOlonzo wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 23:59
Nessie wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 16:06
Bobcat wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 16:04
Nessie wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 16:00

No, it is only a debate when both sides agree to answer the other's questions and to not abuse their opponent. I agree to those conditions and await Bobcat to also agree. As long as he refuses to agree, there can be no debate.

We can debate Turnagain, because we answer each other's questions and we lay off the abuse. Bobcat, whose style of post I have come across before, is scared of debate with me, so he refuses to agree to the norms of debate.
Look at Nessie Run!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I've already answered the first question Nessie:

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=191667#p191667

Now it's your turn - chicken.
That is not a question I asked. What you propose is not a debate. I will debate you, only if you agree to the normal rules of a debate.
In this debate do you propose to demand that the other side accept whatever any archeologists claim to have found, no matter the strength of their evidence?
Not demand, ask. It is likely to be a future question. Bobcat seems surprised I said that archaeology does not prove what happened at TII. But, he is obsessed by graves and thinks I said archaeology cannot prove the existence of mass graves.
Nessie, Is it a fact that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??
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MrOlonzo
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Re: Bobcat chickens out of a debate he laid down the challenge for.

Post by MrOlonzo »

Nessie wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 09:06
MrOlonzo wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 23:59
Nessie wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 16:06
Bobcat wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 16:04
Nessie wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 16:00

No, it is only a debate when both sides agree to answer the other's questions and to not abuse their opponent. I agree to those conditions and await Bobcat to also agree. As long as he refuses to agree, there can be no debate.

We can debate Turnagain, because we answer each other's questions and we lay off the abuse. Bobcat, whose style of post I have come across before, is scared of debate with me, so he refuses to agree to the norms of debate.
Look at Nessie Run!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I've already answered the first question Nessie:

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=191667#p191667

Now it's your turn - chicken.
That is not a question I asked. What you propose is not a debate. I will debate you, only if you agree to the normal rules of a debate.
In this debate do you propose to demand that the other side accept whatever any archeologists claim to have found, no matter the strength of their evidence?
Not demand, ask. It is likely to be a future question. Bobcat seems surprised I said that archaeology does not prove what happened at TII. But, he is obsessed by graves and thinks I said archaeology cannot prove the existence of mass graves.
Therefore, once again, just for clarity, in this debate do you propose to ask that the other side accept whatever any archaeologists claim to have found, no matter the strength of their evidence?
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Nessie
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Bobcat chickens out of a debate he now wishes he never accepted

Post by Nessie »

Bobcat wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 11:39 Nessie:
"My claim is... selections took place for workers to be transported to other camps..."
Bobcat:
Right, and your claim is that "we know" up to 15,000 Jews were selected to be transited to other camps - correct?
Nessie:
No, 6500-9000.
Nessie:
There is evidence some (maximum 12-15,000) went to other camps.

The evidenced 12-15,000 who we know went to other camps

I have repeatedly accepted Hunts highest figure of 12-15,000.
It's Interesting how, according to you, "we know" 12-15,000 Jews were selected to go to other camps, yet your claim is now 6500-9000.

And it's interesting how you "have repeatedly accepted Hunts highest figure of 12-15,000" yet now you suddenly don't.

Your figures seem to change with the wind

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=191594#p191594

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=191595#p191595

and don't reflect what you claim is known. This seems to be an indication of a difficulty in accepting reality.

Have you got mental health issues?
Changing the estimations, based on new evidence, is not a sign of mental health issues. I changed to the 6500-9000 number because of this source;

https://studylib.net/doc/7233192/trebli ... ist-edited

It is a more reliable source than Eric Hunt and shows how it has arrived at its figures.
Bobcat:
I need more information from you about how many Jews you claim were "buried, then exhumed and cremated and the cremains reburied" at TII before I can answer your question.
Nessie:
I am happy with the range of 840-860,000.
But Nessie, you have claimed that:
We know from witnesses and documents c850,000 people were sent to TII.
So according to you, "we know" that 850,000 Jews "were sent to TII" but now you claim that up to 860,000 Jews were buried at TII.

Your figures seem to change with the wind.

This seems to be an indication of a difficulty in accepting reality.
The 850,000 figure is within the range of 840-860,000. You are quibbling over nothing claiming that is changing with the wind.
So, just to be clear hear; your claim for this debate about mass graves at Treblinka II is:

It has been proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, that, during the Treblinka II holocaust, no less than __?__ Jews were buried, then exhumed, then cremated and the cremains reburied into the same mass graves they were exhumed from.

Oh, just a reminder:
Q - #1 - The MAXIMUM number of jews that you can prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that were off-loaded from train cars directly into the Treblinka II camp; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 713,555
Nessie seems to think that more Jews were buried in Treblinka II than actually set foot in the camp!

:lol:
That 713,555 figure is from the Hofle Telegram and only counts arrivals up to the end of 1942. Since then, I have seen figures I consider reliable as to the total arrivals at TII, which is in the range of 840-860,000.
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Nessie
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Bobcat chickens out of a debate he now wishes he never accepted

Post by Nessie »

Bobcat wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 11:48 .....
Nessie, Is it a fact that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??
Sorry, before we can progress I need to know your answer to my question 2.

2 - Can archaeological evidence alone prove what happened at TII? Yes or no or I don't know?

Once you answer that, I will be able to answer your question.
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Nessie
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Re: Bobcat chickens out of a debate he laid down the challenge for.

Post by Nessie »

MrOlonzo wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 12:52
Nessie wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 09:06 .....

Not demand, ask. It is likely to be a future question. Bobcat seems surprised I said that archaeology does not prove what happened at TII. But, he is obsessed by graves and thinks I said archaeology cannot prove the existence of mass graves.
Therefore, once again, just for clarity, in this debate do you propose to ask that the other side accept whatever any archaeologists claim to have found, no matter the strength of their evidence?
I plan to ask what archaeological evidence they would accept. I don't plan to ask do they accept what has been presented so far, since clearly that has already been answered.
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MrOlonzo
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Re: Bobcat chickens out of a debate he laid down the challenge for.

Post by MrOlonzo »

Nessie wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 15:29
MrOlonzo wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 12:52
Nessie wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 09:06 .....

Not demand, ask. It is likely to be a future question. Bobcat seems surprised I said that archaeology does not prove what happened at TII. But, he is obsessed by graves and thinks I said archaeology cannot prove the existence of mass graves.
Therefore, once again, just for clarity, in this debate do you propose to ask that the other side accept whatever any archaeologists claim to have found, no matter the strength of their evidence?
I plan to ask what archaeological evidence they would accept. I don't plan to ask do they accept what has been presented so far, since clearly that has already been answered.
Asking what archaeological evidence they would accept, is a fair question. No argument there.
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Re: Nessie is trying to weasel out of a debate he now wishes he never accepted

Post by Bobcat »

Nessie wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 15:26
Bobcat wrote: 28 Jun 2021, 11:48 .....
Nessie, Is it a fact that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??
Sorry, before we can progress I need to know your answer to my question 2.

2 - Can archaeological evidence alone prove what happened at TII? Yes or no or I don't know?

Once you answer that, I will be able to answer your question.
As you are well aware, I have already answered your question.

If this is yet another reality that you refuse to accept, I'll repeat it for you:
My answer to Question #2 is:

It depends on what your claims are as to what happened at TII, which you can easily clarify as outlined in this post:

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=191782#p191782
Look at poor Nessie trying to demand that the only answers I can give to his questions are from his pre-approved list of answers!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

And now he's trying to weasel out of a debate about mass graves at TII before he even tells us what his claims are about those alleged mass graves!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh, BTW Nessie:
Bobcat:

Nessie, Is it a fact that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??
Nessie:

Sorry, before we can progress...
Maybe this will help you answer Nessie:
When you say "with the utmost certainty" - is that the same level of certainty that you use to claim 11 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "using the scientific method" - is that the same method that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 11 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "burial site" - are you including the total volume of all 11 “huge mass graves” that you claim - with the utmost certainty - have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "prove" - do you mean prove with the same standard of proof that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 11 extant "huge mass graves" have been proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

Can you, with the utmost certainty and using the scientific method prove that Treblinka II is not the burial site of at least 813,000 jews - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: No as it does contain at least that number of remains

https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=76417#p76417
Last edited by Bobcat on 28 Jun 2021, 17:21, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nessie is trying to weasel out of a debate he now wishes he never accepted

Post by Bobcat »

Nessie:
The 850,000 figure is within the range of 840-860,000. You are quibbling over nothing claiming that is changing with the wind... That 713,555 figure is from the Hofle Telegram and only counts arrivals up to the end of 1942. Since then, I have seen figures I consider reliable as to the total arrivals at TII, which is in the range of 840-860,000.
So, just to be clear hear; your claim for this debate about the total number of arivals at Treblinka II is:

It has been proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, that, during WW II, no less than __?__ Jews arrived at Treblinka II.

And Nessie's answer is - ?

And don't forget this Nessie:
Bobcat wrote:

So, just to be clear hear; your claim for this debate about mass graves at Treblinka II is:


It has been proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, that, during the Treblinka II holocaust, no less than __?__ Jews were buried, then exhumed, then cremated and the cremains reburied into the same mass graves they were exhumed from.
And Nessie's answer is - ?
Last edited by Bobcat on 28 Jun 2021, 17:38, edited 3 times in total.
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