Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

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Werd
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:40 pm
Werd wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:21 pm
Special basements = corpse cellars. Nothing more.
viewtopic.php?p=183693#p183693
Krema III


Nessie once tried to say that erecting horse stable barracks for special treatment was code for homicide. I showed otherwise.
viewtopic.php?p=184142#p184142
Bunkers


The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575
Krema II

The doors and windows were meaningless and already refuted.
viewtopic.php?p=184065#p184065
Krema IV and V

Krema III


Pick one krema at a time and evidence what was happening inside.
Um, you tried many times for each Krema. As can be seen above, you, and Pressac FAILED MISERABLY because of the EXTRA DOCUMENTS that Mattogno found PER CRIMINAL TRACE. Go pound sand. Or beat a dead horse again. :lol:

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Nessie
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:03 am
Nessie wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:40 pm
Werd wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:21 pm
Special basements = corpse cellars. Nothing more.
viewtopic.php?p=183693#p183693
Krema III


Nessie once tried to say that erecting horse stable barracks for special treatment was code for homicide. I showed otherwise.
viewtopic.php?p=184142#p184142
Bunkers


The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575
Krema II

The doors and windows were meaningless and already refuted.
viewtopic.php?p=184065#p184065
Krema IV and V

Krema III


Pick one krema at a time and evidence what was happening inside.
Um, you tried many times for each Krema. As can be seen above, you, and Pressac FAILED MISERABLY because of the EXTRA DOCUMENTS that Mattogno found PER CRIMINAL TRACE. Go pound sand. Or beat a dead horse again. :lol:
You are being vague and creating links to links to pages copied from Mattogno's book nothing, to suggest you have the answer. When I ask you to be specific and to use your own words, you refuse. That is because you do not understand Mattogno's methodology and waffle. How do you know Mattogno is correct, when you cannot explain what his methodology is?

You suggest Mattogno wins because he finds more documents than Pressac, but when asked to be specific and link to one specific document used by Pressac and then link to the specific documents that supposedly refute that one document, you refuse.

So, pick one of the above, show the specific documents and in your own words, explain how some documents refute other documents.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:54 am
explain how some documents refute other documents.
Instead of asking question like der juden, why does this poster called Nessie not ever give some substance; all we get from this poster is watered wish wash questions. I believe this sneaky one wants attention and so asks questions to stop the eternal loneliness existing in many old men. Claims to have some training in history, but that is yet to show itself. Oh where did the training go. :?: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

𝕸𝖊𝖎𝖓𝖊 𝕰𝖍𝖗𝖊 𝖍𝖊𝖎ß𝖙 𝕿𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊
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Werd
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:54 am
You are being vague
How so?
creating links to links to pages copied from Mattogno's book
Pages with numbers on them? That's the complete opposite of vague. :lol:
nothing, to suggest you have the answer.
Anyone who bothers to read what I post will actually see that those very buildings are mentioned that I say they are. :roll:
you do not understand Mattogno's methodology
[...]
How do you know Mattogno is correct, when you cannot explain what his methodology is?
See how Nessie continues to lie? He truly has no shame. :lol:
I have explained multiple times what Mattogno does. He starts with one "criminal trace." He then finds the time frame and finds several surrounding documents and telexes from the archive of the ZBL of Auschwitz, known as RGVA due to its being held in Russia. Sometimes it's as little as 6 extra documents. Sometimes it's more. The extra documents establish the real, non homicidal context of the so called criminal trace.
You suggest Mattogno wins because he finds more documents than Pressac, but when asked to be specific and link to one specific document used by Pressac and then link to the specific documents that supposedly refute that one document,
...which is what Mattogno does with all those footnotes to extra documents from the archive of the ZBL of Auschwitz, being held in Russia, under the acronym, RGVA. :lol: You just explained in plain English what Mattogno's methodology is. So you know it. And I know it. And you know that I know it. So you can stop lying that I don't know what's going on, troll.
when asked to be specific and link to one specific document used by Pressac and then link to the specific documents that supposedly refute that one document you refuse.
:roll:
Mattogno has already done the work. Why would i re-invent the wheel?

Nessie refuses to read English in the pages I copy and paste. He's now back to pretending that what you see on the bottom of Mattogno's pages are not footnotes to other documents Pressac never laid his eyes on in the same RGVA archive that the supposed "criminal traces" come from. This liar has no shame. He does this on purpose because deep down he knows I'm actually telling the truth when I say that these pages talk about Krema II, and these pages talk about Krema III, and these pages talk about Krema IV and these pages talk about Krema V.

Only Nessie can answer why he continues to lie that those are not footnotes on the bottom of the pages to extra documents from the RGVA archive. But since he's clearly dishonest, we can't expect an honest answer from him. So it's a waste of time.

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Huntinger
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Huntinger »

Werd wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:15 am
Nessie wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:54 am
You are being vague
How so?
creating links to links to pages copied from Mattogno's book
Pages with numbers on them? That's the complete opposite of vague. :lol:
nothing, to suggest you have the answer.
Anyone who bothers to read what I post will actually see that those very buildings are mentioned that I say they are. :roll:
you do not understand Mattogno's methodology
[...]
How do you know Mattogno is correct, when you cannot explain what his methodology is?
See how Nessie continues to lie? He truly has no shame. :lol:
I have explained multiple times what Mattogno does. He starts with one "criminal trace." He then finds the time frame and finds several surrounding documents and telexes from the archive of the ZBL of Auschwitz, known as RGVA due to its being held in Russia. Sometimes it's as little as 6 extra documents. Sometimes it's more. The extra documents establish the real, non homicidal context of the so called criminal trace.
You suggest Mattogno wins because he finds more documents than Pressac, but when asked to be specific and link to one specific document used by Pressac and then link to the specific documents that supposedly refute that one document,
...which is what Mattogno does with all those footnotes to extra documents from the archive of the ZBL of Auschwitz, being held in Russia, under the acronym, RGVA. :lol: You just explained in plain English what Mattogno's methodology is. So you know it. And I know it. And you know that I know it. So you can stop lying that I don't know what's going on, troll.
when asked to be specific and link to one specific document used by Pressac and then link to the specific documents that supposedly refute that one document you refuse.
:roll:
Mattogno has already done the work. Why would i re-invent the wheel?

Nessie refuses to read English in the pages I copy and paste. He's now back to pretending that what you see on the bottom of Mattogno's pages are not footnotes to other documents Pressac never laid his eyes on in the same RGVA archive that the supposed "criminal traces" come from. This liar has no shame. He does this on purpose because deep down he knows I'm actually telling the truth when I say that these pages talk about Krema II, and these pages talk about Krema III, and these pages talk about Krema IV and these pages talk about Krema V.

Only Nessie can answer why he continues to lie that those are not footnotes on the bottom of the pages to extra documents from the RGVA archive. But since he's clearly dishonest, we can't expect an honest answer from him. So it's a waste of time.
You and Nessie seem like two sides of the same coin.

𝕸𝖊𝖎𝖓𝖊 𝕰𝖍𝖗𝖊 𝖍𝖊𝖎ß𝖙 𝕿𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊
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Nessie
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:15 am
Nessie wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:54 am
You are being vague
How so?
creating links to links to pages copied from Mattogno's book
Pages with numbers on them? That's the complete opposite of vague. :lol:
nothing, to suggest you have the answer.
Anyone who bothers to read what I post will actually see that those very buildings are mentioned that I say they are. :roll:
Links to links and pages and pages copied from Mattogno are designed to bamboozle and create the impression you have the evidence and proof. You burst into tears when I ask you to pick one document and then show how only other documents can prove what that one document actually means.
you do not understand Mattogno's methodology
[...]
How do you know Mattogno is correct, when you cannot explain what his methodology is?
See how Nessie continues to lie? He truly has no shame. :lol:
I have explained multiple times what Mattogno does. He starts with one "criminal trace." He then finds the time frame and finds several surrounding documents and telexes from the archive of the ZBL of Auschwitz. Sometimes it's as little as 6 extra documents. Sometimes it's more. The extra documents establish the real, non homicidal context of the so called criminal trace.
That is what Mattogno does, but it does not explain how that methodology actually works. It does not explain how only documents can be used to evidence and prove what another document means. You refuse to provide specific examples where you link to documents and you explain how one document about special treatment/action/measures evidence what another actually means. Instead you link to pages from Mattogno's book and shout.
You suggest Mattogno wins because he finds more documents than Pressac, but when asked to be specific and link to one specific document used by Pressac and then link to the specific documents that supposedly refute that one document, you refuse.
Mattogno has already done the work. Why would i re-invent the wheel? Nessie refuses to read English in the pages I copy and paste. He's now back to pretending that what you see on the bottom of Mattogno's pages are not footnotes to other documents Pressac never laid his eyes on in the same RGVA archive that the supposed "criminal traces" come from. This liar has no shame. He does this on purpose because deep down he knows I'm actually telling the truth when I say that these pages talk about Krema II, and these pages talk about Krema III, and these pages talk about Krema IV and these pages talk about Krema V.
Mattogno cherry picks and uses non sequitur claims that just because documents appear to refer to something innocent, therefore they are all about something innocent, such as mass showering. He ignores all of the eyewitness evidence and circumstantial evidence. His methodology is unlike the historical methodology and his conclusion is not backed by any evidence.

That is why I do not accept his methodology and your inability to explain why Mattogno is correct and all the historians are wrong, proves to me that you do not understand methodology.
Only Nessie can answer why he continues to lie that those are not footnotes on the bottom of the pages to extra documents from the RGVA archive. But since he's clearly dishonest, we can't expect an honest answer from him. So it's a waste of time.
Just shouting there are documents is not good enough, I want to see specifics and to see exactly which document is being referred to. I do that regularly using the HC source, which lists all the documents that evidence a special action/treatment at Birkenau involving gassing people. HC make their evidencing very clear and simple. Mattogno does the opposite and he makes his evidence and reasoning very unclear and complicated. That is because he is trying to create an impression, he is not following the evidence to a logical conclusion. You find his methodology unfathomable, which is why you cannot produce specific documents and explain in your own words how they prove what did happen at the Kremas.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Werd
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Werd »

You burst into tears when I ask you to pick one document and then show how only other documents can prove what that one document actually means.
Um, I picked several. And I told you what rooms they were talking about.
viewtopic.php?p=186088#p186088
Nessie wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:39 am
Links to links and pages and pages copied from Mattogno are designed to bamboozle and create the impression you have the evidence and proof.
How dare I give links to things; something you have demanded I do in the past. How dare I post pages of Mattogno's books because they're less work for me instead of typing it all out myself or copying and pasting all the text from a pdf that when I paste it, the lines aren't as long (left to right) as normal in a rodoh post - it looks like someone just keeps hitting enter/return on the keyboard randomly without cause too many times.

You're the one being a bitch about the situation.

That is what Mattogno does, but it does not explain how that methodology actually works.
Proof is in the pudding.
viewtopic.php?p=186088#p186088

It does not explain how only documents can be used to evidence and prove what another document means.
One example out of the many already given:
No lying eyewitness is going to overturn the documents which show the real context of the Swoboda document. Special treatment was meant for corpses, not living people.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4382
You refuse to provide specific examples where you link to documents
Mattogno quotes longer extracts from documents than one line, ala HC style. YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY READ THE ENTIRE CHAPTERS. Don't worry. Rodoh readers will and they'll see the truth.

Mattogno cherry picks and uses non sequitur claims that just because documents appear to refer to something innocent, therefore they are all about something innocent,
Another false strawman about a fake Mattogno non sequitor. I've already refuted this lie of yours about how he works. Here is that refutation again>
Werd wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:31 am
because he uses the faulty argument that because "special" was used to mean non homicidal actions, therefore it only ever meant that.
Strawman again. Mattogno doesn't use documents about for example horse stable barracks or BW 5a and 5B to claim that there is no humans killed in the kremas. HE USES MORE DOCUMENTS ABOUT KREMAS AFTER THE DOCUMENTS ABOUT KREMAS PRESSAC SELECTED. You know this and are just wasting time lying now.
Next.
He ignores all of the eyewitness evidence and circumstantial evidence. His methodology is unlike the historical methodology and his conclusion is not backed by any evidence.
There is no proof for example that the January 29 Vergasungskeller document proves people were gassed in that building. Don't worry, I'll post the entire first part of the second chapter of THE REAL CASE FOR AUSCHWITZ soon under a new title Mattogno obliterates Pressac's criminal traces IV.
Just shouting there are documents is not good enough,
Neither is citing one line from a document out of context that once the context is established, turns out to be harmless.
I do that regularly using the HC source, which lists all the documents that evidence a special action/treatment at Birkenau involving gassing people.
Turns out that wasn't the case a lot. Here is but one example of HC's failure.
The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575
HC make their evidencing very clear and simple.
Quote one line from a document out of context that "sounds" bad because of question begging on the issue of "code language."
you cannot produce specific documents
All the mattogno chapters I quoted, have extracts from the criminal traces that are longer than one line.
and explain in your own words how they prove what did happen at the Kremas.
What was that I said again in my own words?
The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.

You're still a lying, trolling idiot.

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Nessie
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

This is an example of how you are unable to explain what Mattogno is going on about. You assert in red writing;
Werd wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:00 pm
....The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575
That link goes to this post, which contains a lot of information that has nothing to do with air exchange, ventilation systems;

viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575
Werd wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:07 pm
Nessie wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:26 am
Werd wrote:
Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:53 pm

Find me a document that says special treatment or special action was going on in a leichenkeller or shut the hell up!
This proves a special action took place inside the Kremas, which were being constructed to enable that action

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... ce-on.html

"Letter from Karl Bischoff to SS-WVHA of 13 October 1942 on “due to the situation created by the special actions, the construction of the crematorium had to be begun immediately just this past July”
NO IT DOESN'T! STOP USING THIS FALSE DOCUMENT! MATTOGNO ALREADY EXPLAINED WHAT THIS DOCUMENT MEANS
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3382
viewtopic.php?p=129784#p129784
AND YOU REFUSED TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS I INTERSPERSED IN BETWEEN THE PAGES
viewtopic.php?p=129786#p129786

YOU LOSE. PRESSAC LOSES!

This identifies that the special action involved one of the underground rooms in the Krema;

"Report from Karl Bischoff of 4 November 1942 on “special cellar” in crematorium 2 [ A new document mentioning "special cellars" (Sonderkeller) in the crematoria 2 and 3 at Birkenau ]"
"Memo from Fritz Wolter of 27 November 1942 on “special cellars” in crematorium 2 [Schüle, Industrie und Holocaust, p. 180]"
Is this really the best you have? :lol:

Image
Image
Image
Image
At the very end of that post you assert;
There we go. Nothing homicidal at all. Just a proper air ventilation/air exchange system. You're grasping at straws based on the circular logic that there is a code language to begin with.
You have been deliberately unclear about the supposed evidence that proves the air ventilation, exchange system is not for a homicidal purpose. You have linked to multiple pages from Mattogno's book and not shown precisely where the evidence is that you are referring to, or how it proves the cellars were only used for corpses.

You are trying to do what Mattogno does, create the impression there is evidence to prove, without having anything. Your smoke and mirror tactic falls apart when I demand that you are specific and you link to and quote exactly what documents prove the air ventilation, exchange system was only ever used for corpse storage in the Kremas in 1943 to 1944. Bear in mind, you have also previously claimed that the Kremas were being used for mass showering, delousing of clothes and even bomb shelters in 1943-4. Now you add corpse storage :roll:

Be specific, show which documents prove that the air ventilation, exchange system proves that in 1943-4, the Kremas were being used to store corpses.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Werd
Posts: 11011
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:42 pm
This is an example of how you are unable to explain what Mattogno is going on about. You assert in red writing;
Werd wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:00 pm
....The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575
That link goes to this post, which contains a lot of information that has nothing to do with air exchange, ventilation systems;
Oh what a liar Nessie exposes himself to be...
You have linked to multiple pages from Mattogno's book and not shown precisely where the evidence is that you are referring to, or how it proves the cellars were only used for corpses.
Page 76 has the summary statement that the special cellar had to do with aeration systems being installed and the previous pages simply explain it. THE WORD AERATION IS EVEN ON PAGE 76 YOU JACKASS! ALL THE READERS CAN SEE IT IN YOUR POST. HOISTED BY YOUR OWN PETARD!

As mattogno explains near the end of page 75 after going through all the extra documents that Pressac ignored or never found, if the room in question really was to be used to gas people then the concrete roof, when poured, would have had openings made to drop the Zyklon B. It never did. Mattogno already destroyed Zimmerman in AUSCHWITZ LIES when he exposed that these ceiling holes in Birkenau, much like the ones at Majdanek, were crude fakes created by the Poles and Soviets.

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Nessie
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:23 pm
Nessie wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:42 pm
This is an example of how you are unable to explain what Mattogno is going on about. You assert in red writing;
Werd wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:00 pm
....The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575
That link goes to this post, which contains a lot of information that has nothing to do with air exchange, ventilation systems;
Oh what a liar Nessie exposes himself to be...
You have linked to multiple pages from Mattogno's book and not shown precisely where the evidence is that you are referring to, or how it proves the cellars were only used for corpses.
Page 76 has the summary statement that the special cellar had to do with aeration systems being installed and the previous pages simply explain it. THE WORD AERATION IS EVEN ON PAGE 76 YOU JACKASS! ALL THE READERS CAN SEE IT IN YOUR POST. HOISTED BY YOUR OWN PETARD!
Hardly, the question is, why did you not just post the relevant page? Why did you link to a post that included irrelevant information and 4 pages copied? The answer is that you are trying to hide that there is no evidence to prove the air exchange/ventilation system was used to for the storage of corpses in 1943-4. What is on page 76 that evidences "aeration" was for corpses? Mattogno states that Pressac "hypothesizes" that it was decomposing corpses. That is not evidence, let alone proof that Leichenkeller 2, which Mattogno references, was used to store corpses in 1943-4.

Mattogno and you are trying to suggest that is what the ventilation was for and you are hiding the lack of evidence in a mash of information, much of which is irrelevant.

Image
As mattogno explains near the end of page 75 after going through all the extra documents that Pressac ignored or never found, if the room in question really was to be used to gas people then the concrete roof, when poured, would have had openings made to drop the Zyklon B. It never did. Mattogno already destroyed Zimmerman in AUSCHWITZ LIES when he exposed that these ceiling holes in Birkenau, much like the ones at Majdanek, were crude fakes created by the Poles and Soviets.
There is no evidence on page 75 to prove the holes in Krema II was made by the Poles and Soviets.

Image

Mattogno is arguing that a homicidal gas chamber would have holes constructed into the ceiling (page 75), not chiselled (page76). That is just an argument, it is not evidence, nor proof that in 1943-4 something other than homicidal gassings took place in the Leichenkeller. It does not evidence it was used to store corpses during that time.

No wonder you hate specifics and direct linking and quotes. :lol:
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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