Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

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Nessie
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:26 pm
Nessie wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:02 pm
If his conclusion was correct, there would be evidence of mass transports back out of the camp.
Non sequitor.

.....
No, one has to follow the other. There is significant evidence of mass arrivals at Birkenau. If those people were processed inside Birkenau and then left, there would be evidence of that. It is physically impossible for so many people to have arrived at the camp and then left no evidence of being processed at the camp, their departure and where they were transported to.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:26 pm
Nessie wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:02 pm
.....
You dodge explaining why his methodology of only using documents is more reliable and credible than using all of the evidence.
&
Your point is Mattogno found more documents than Pressac and you claim those documents provide the real context. The real context is provided from all of the evidence from the Kremas, not just documents and not from other places.
No lying eyewitness is going to overturn the documents which show the real context of the Swoboda document. Special treatment was meant for corpses, not living people.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4382

No lying witness is going to prove super coke ovens in Birkenau that can burn up 4 corpses in one muffle in 30 minutes and then accept 4 more.

etc etc
You have not proved that everyone who said he worked at a Krema and they were used to gas people is lying. Documents are not as reliable as you suggest they are. The real context can only be found by looking at all of the evidence. The German engineers, who produced reports about mass cremations at A-B in 1942-3, admitted after that war that they knew the cremations were for people who had been gassed.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:26 pm
Nessie wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:02 pm
.....
What did the special action, in relation to the Kremas, refer to?
Depends on what document. Some don't even say special action. Some say special treatment or special basements. We found these had nothing harmful in them.
Plenty of examples of "special" having non homicidal contexts within Kremas.

Special basements = corpse cellars. Nothing more.
viewtopic.php?p=183693#p183693

Nessie once tried to say that erecting horse stable barracks for special treatment was code for homicide. I showed otherwise.
viewtopic.php?p=184142#p184142

The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575

The doors and windows were meaningless and already refuted.
viewtopic.php?p=184065#p184065
viewtopic.php?p=183691#p183691
what was the special action that was happening inside the Kremas in from around May 1943, to around August 1944?
This literally makes no sense. You can't just make a blanket statement that special action was constantly and always going on. That's not the case. Sometimes, the special action or special treatment involved delousing in a building like BW 5a and 5b. Sometimes the special basement was literally a corpse cellar that needed a finished air ventilation-exchange mission completed. Sometimes doors and windows that could be gas tight technically we in fact being used for other reasons that didn't involve humans. You have to pick things ONE AT A TIME.
What was "special" that was happening inside the Kremas II, III, IV and V at Birkenau from around May 1943 to around August 1944? If it was more than one thing, say so and show your evidence. Pick one krema at a time and evidence what was happening inside. Be as specific as you can.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.


Werd
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:04 am
Documents are not as reliable as you suggest they are. The real context can only be found by looking at all of the evidence.
And that's why Mattogno went and found extra documents (plural) to every "criminal trace" Pressac found and showed nothing harmful. Therefore your conspiracy theory of code language, falls apart.

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Nessie
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:51 pm
Image
What was "special" that was happening inside the Kremas II, III, IV and V at Birkenau from around May 1943 to around August 1944? If it was more than one thing, say so and show your evidence. Pick one krema at a time and evidence what was happening inside. Be as specific as you can.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 32072
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:53 pm
Nessie wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:04 am
Documents are not as reliable as you suggest they are. The real context can only be found by looking at all of the evidence.
And that's why Mattogno went and found extra documents (plural) to every "criminal trace" Pressac found and showed nothing harmful. Therefore your conspiracy theory of code language, falls apart.
Your CT of code language falls apart because you refuse to only examine evidence relevant to the Kremas and you ignore all of the people who worked inside the Kremas.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Werd
Posts: 11011
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:38 am
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:58 am
you ignore all of the people who worked inside the Kremas.
No lying eyewitness is going to overturn the documents which show the real context of the Swoboda document. Special treatment was meant for corpses, not living people.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4382

No lying witness is going to prove super coke ovens in Birkenau that can burn up 4 corpses in one muffle in 30 minutes and then accept 4 more.

etc etc
Plenty of examples of "special" having non homicidal contexts within Kremas.

Special basements = corpse cellars. Nothing more.
viewtopic.php?p=183693#p183693

Nessie once tried to say that erecting horse stable barracks for special treatment was code for homicide. I showed otherwise.
viewtopic.php?p=184142#p184142

The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575

The doors and windows were meaningless and already refuted.
viewtopic.php?p=184065#p184065
viewtopic.php?p=183691#p183691

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 32072
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:21 pm
Nessie wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:58 am
you ignore all of the people who worked inside the Kremas.
No lying eyewitness is going to overturn the documents which show the real context of the Swoboda document. Special treatment was meant for corpses, not living people.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4382

No lying witness is going to prove super coke ovens in Birkenau that can burn up 4 corpses in one muffle in 30 minutes and then accept 4 more.
OK, does that mean when Topf&Sons engineers admit their involvement in gas chambers and mass cremations they are lying, but when they write documents they are telling the truth?

https://www.topfundsoehne.de/ts/en/exhi ... 28724.html

"Topf & Sons supplied not only the ovens for the large-scale crematoria at Birkenau, but also the ventilation and exhaust systems for the gas chambers. The engineers were already aware of the function of these systems during the planning phase. Kurt Prüfer visited Birkenau at least a dozen times, often accompanied by his colleague Karl Schultze, head of the Ventilation Systems Department. Employment papers of Topf & Sons fitters in charge of assembling the plants in Birkenau provide evidence that they were also aware of the intended purpose of the technology they were installing.

The memorandum of a telephone conversation provides evidence that employees who never personally visited Auschwitz but were involved in the processing of orders were also aware of the intended gassing operations in the crematoria.The use of the word “gas cellar” in the memorandum of a telephone conversation testifies to the fact that the company treated the provision of technical services for mass murder as a matter of course. The handwritten notes and abbreviations show that the memorandum passed through the hands of Ludwig Topf, Works Director Gustav Braun, authorized commercial representative Max Machemehl and Head of Purchasing Florentin Mock.

Heinrich Messing accumulated thirty-five hours of overtime in a single week in March 1943 when installing the ventilation system in the two basement rooms of Crematorium II, which later served as the undressing cellar and the gas chamber. In his service report he described the larger room as the “undressing room” instead of using the SS cover designation “morgue." He was thus aware of the SS plans for the use of the rooms even before the Auschwitz crematoria commenced operations."

Some of the documents here;

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... ce-on.html

"Letter of 14 July 1941 from the Topf engineer Paul Erdmann to the construction office Mauthausen on a cremation rate of 33 to 40 min per corpse "without overloading" the two-muffle oven [Rebuttal of Mattogno on Auschwitz, Part 1: Indoor Cremation]

Report of 30 October 1941 from the construction office Auschwitz on "60 men can be cremated" in the Topf five three muffle ovens within one hour Bartosik, The origins of the Birkenau camp, p. 170, see also Rebuttal of Mattogno on Auschwitz, Part 1: Indoor Cremation]

Letter of construction office Auschwitz to construction office Stuthof on "an incineration takes about ½ hour according to the Topf company” in the three-muffle oven [Mattogno, IFCDA, p. 424]

Letter from Kurt Prüfer of 8 September 1942 on "the number of muffles [37 with a capacity of 1850 corpses per day] is not yet sufficient; we should deliver more ovens as quick as possible" [Schüle, Industrie und Holocaust, p. 442]

Report from Fritz Sanders of 14 September 1942 on "stuffing the individual muffles with several corpses" [Schüle, Industrie und Holocaust, p. 443]

Letter from Topf to central construction office Auschwitz of 2 March 1943 on “display devices for hydrogen cyanide residues” for crematorium 2 [Pressac, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz, p. 92"

Those documents prove fast multiple cremations were being planned for, the engineers were confident it was possible and they knew about the gassings.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 32072
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:21 pm
.....
etc etc
Plenty of examples of "special" having non homicidal contexts within Kremas.

Special basements = corpse cellars. Nothing more.
viewtopic.php?p=183693#p183693

Nessie once tried to say that erecting horse stable barracks for special treatment was code for homicide. I showed otherwise.
viewtopic.php?p=184142#p184142

The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575

The doors and windows were meaningless and already refuted.
viewtopic.php?p=184065#p184065
viewtopic.php?p=183691#p183691
What was "special" that was happening inside the Kremas II, III, IV and V at Birkenau from around May 1943 to around August 1944? If it was more than one thing, say so and show your evidence. Pick one krema at a time and evidence what was happening inside. Be as specific as you can, so no linking to posts with page and page you have copied from Mattogno.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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