Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

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Huntinger
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:48 pm
You deniers need to make up your minds and produce evidence, since you claim morgue, air raid shelter, shower and delousing for the various kremas.
If bombs were falling it is logical that any earth covered facility could act as an air raid shelter. Multiple functions depending on the situation.

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Turnagain
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
You deniers need to make up your minds and produce evidence, since you claim morgue, air raid shelter, shower and delousing for the various kremas.
And you need to explain why the Germans would build elaborate facilities for disinfesting clothing and bedding but resort to burning tubs of coke and throwing the Zyklon B through the windows to kill the kikes.

Werd
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:09 pm
Werd wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:07 am
Nessie wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:00 am
The word "special" appears in numerous documents about building gas chambers in the Kremas.
You still haven't presented one and I already asked you to.
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... ce-on.html
This is why I can't take this shit head Nessie seriously.
"Radio signal of 26 August 1942 on “material [Zyklon-B, back-up link] for special treatment” [Death Books From Auschwitz: Remnants, Vol. I, p. 144]"
One line that SOUNDS like what Nessie wants it to sound like. THAT'S NOT PROOF. I want the document QUOTED IN FULL.
"Order of 5 October 1942 on “doors for special t[reatment] of the Jews” [Mattogno, STIA, p. 48]"
Any citation from Mattogno doesn't count as proof that they are criminal traces since Mattogno DECIMATED THESE ALLEGED CRIMINAL TRACES! To top it off, I'VE ALREADY DEALT WITH THIS ONE! PART TWO. CHAPTER 5. FIRST GODDAMN POST IN THIS TOPIC! THIS IS NOT A CRIMINAL TRACE!
viewtopic.php?p=183602#p183602
"Letter from Karl Bischoff to SS-WVHA of 13 October 1942 on “due to the situation created by the special actions, the construction of the crematorium had to be begun immediately just this past July” [Bartosik, The beginnings of the extermination of Jews...,p.226]"
THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED AND REFUTED! SAME WITH THIS!
"Explanationary report from Karl Bischoff of 16 December 1942 on “the individual crematoriums and other special facilities” [Mattogno, STIA, p. 61]"
Enlarged here and refuted here:
The Bischoff letter from October 13 1942
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3382
Especially,
viewtopic.php?p=129786#p129786[/quote]
Second of all, THAT IS ONE OF THE REFERENCES THAT HOLOCAUST CONTROVERSIES USED TO HAVE AS A MATTOGNO FOOTNOTE, BUT THEY CHANGED IT TO A DIFFERENT REFERENCE IN AN UPDATED LIST. THEY WANT TO BURY ANY MATTOGNO DISCUSSION THEY CAN FROM THEIR VIEWERS BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE HOW MANY CRIMINAL TRACES MATTOGNO HAS ALREADY DESTROYED. I EXPOSED THE LIST CHANGING TACTICS HERE!
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4343
"Work time sheet of 28 February 1943 on “fit gas tight windows” in crematorium 4 [Pressac, Technique, p. 445]"
Already discussed.
Mattogno obliterates Pressac's "criminal traces"
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3716
"Letter from Karl Bischoff of 13 January 1943 on “doors for crematorium I in the POW camp, ordered with letter dated Oct. 26, 1942 are urgently required for the carrying out of the special measures” [Mattogno, STIA, p. 91]"
We haven't done this one yet. The document in question gets mentioned on paperback page 100 after establishing proper context for a few pages. Buckle up.

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Werd
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Werd »

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AS WE HAVE SEEN IN CHAPTER 8... That's a short chapter that's also coming up.

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There we go. Another "criminal trace" fully explained. Now here's that short chapter 8.

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Werd
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:09 pm
What was being built inside the Kremas, is made clear in the following memos;

"Memo from Fritz Sander of 17 February 1943 on “the gas cellar” in crematorium 2 [Schüle, Industrie und Holocaust, p. 456, back-up 1st and 2nd page]"
"Order of 13 February 1943 on “12 gas tight doors approx. 30/40” for crematorium 4 and 5 [Pressac, Technique, p. 444]"
"Order of 15 February 1943 on “210 anchors for gas tight doors” for crematorium 4 [Pressac, Technique, p. 448]"
"List of materials of 24 February 1943 on “12 gas tight doors approx. 30/40” for crematorium 4 and 5 [Pressac, Technique, p. 444]"
"Delivery note of 24 February 1943 on “fittings of 12 gas tight doors” for crematorium 4 and 5 [Pressac, Technique, p. 443]"
"Work time sheet of 28 February 1943 on “fit gas tight windows” in crematorium 4 [Pressac, Technique, p. 445]"
"Work time sheet of 2 March 1943 on “concrete in gas chamber” in crematorium 4 [Pressac, Technique, p. 446]"

"Letter from Topf to central construction office Auschwitz of 2 March 1943 on “display devices for hydrogen cyanide residues” for crematorium 2 [Pressac, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz, p. 92]"
My those bold ones look familiar. Criminal traces for IV and V. YES I'VE SEEN THEM BEFORE! IN MATTOGNO'S THE REAL CASE FOR AUSCHWITZ. At the start of the book, he listed and broke down every single one of Pressac's so called criminal traces.

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Now, has crematoria IV and V been discussed yet or at least copied and pasted yet?

WHY YES THEY ALL HAVE. IN CHAPTER 5. WHICH IS POSTED IN FULL IN THIS TOPIC.

Mattogno obliterates Pressac's "criminal traces"

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3716


The most important stuff HAS ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED BY MATTOGNO. OF COURSE, NESSIE TO THIS DAY REFUSES TO READ EITHER OR BOTH of my topics where Mattogno obliterates Pressac's interpretations of documents and show the mistakes ONE BY ONE. Nessie just screams "fallacy" or "incredulity." Screaming magical words like abra cadabra isn't a path to victory, Nessie. It's not science either.

Werd
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:09 pm
Other memos that is evidence "special" at the Kremas referred to people and not clothes are;

"Report (1,2) from Heinrich Kinna of 16 December 1942 on “imbeciles, idiots, cripples and sick people have to be removed from the camp within a short time by liquidiation to unburden the camp…Poles have to die of a natural death contrary to the measures applied on the Jews” [IPN GK 69/169, reproduced in Jaczynska, Sonderlaboratorium SS, p. 423, see also The Kinna Report - German Document on the Killing of Unfit Jews in Auschwitz]"
Guess what's actually missing from this little clip? "special" :lol:
"Camp employement record book on 10 February 1943 on "request of dentists for the special action" [Bartosik, The beginnings of the extermination of Jews...,p.209]"
And of course, Mattogno has already discussed this in CURATED LIES. That WHOLE BOOK was based on refuting every single one of the 74 "criminal traces" that Bartosik and his colleagues claimed proved the holocaust.

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There you go. Not necessarily a criminal character.

Werd
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Werd »

Finally,
"Telex from Heinrich Schwarz to SS-WVHA of 5 March 1943 on “918 women and children sent to special treatment“ [Blumental, Dokumenty i materiały, volume 1, p. 109]"
"Telex from Heinrich Schwarz to SS-WVHA of 8 March 1943 on “151 men and 492 women and children were specially treated“ [Blumental, Dokumenty i materiały, volume 1, p. 110]"
Quick google search:


https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/2 ... #234004047
>Telex from Heinrich Schwarz to SS-WVHA of 5 March 1943 on “918 women and children sent to special treatment“ [Blumental, Dokumenty i materiały, volume 1, p. 109]
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hs6Xt8ioB30/ ... Bp.109.jpg
>Telex from Heinrich Schwarz to SS-WVHA of 8 March 1943 on “151 men and 492 women and children were specially treated“ [Blumental, Dokumenty i materiały, volume 1, p. 110]
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QMa9o9VM2tY/ ... Bp.110.jpg
As it turns out, HC also provides the documents on their 2012 index. HC also has a discussion here:
In March 5, 1943 report of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Schwarz

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there is a mention of a number of arrived Jews who were "sent to S.B." ("der S.B. zugefuehrt"). The report was published in 1946 in Dokumenty i materialy, edited by Nachman Blumenthal. Unfortunately, there was a typo made by the publisher - the line which begins "Davon 200 Frauen..." has been accidentally typed instead of the first line of the second paragraph. According to information from Danuta Czech's Auschwitz Chronicle (1990 edn., p. 344), the first line contained the information about 632 men, of whom 517 were registered. The second line of the second paragraph, which contains the words "der S.B. zugefuehrt", pertains to those Jewish men who had not been selected. In another report by Schwarz, written on March 8, 1943, we read:

Am 5. und 7. Maerz trafen folgende juedische Haeftlingstransporte ein. Transport aus Berlin, Eingang 5. Maerz 43, Gesamtstaerke 1128 Juden. Zum Arbeitseinsatz gelangten 389 Maenner (Buna) und 96 Frauen. Sonderbehandelt wurden 151 Maenner und 492 Frauen und Kinder. Transport aus Breslau, Eingang 5.Maerz 43, Gesamtstaerke 1405 Juden. Zum Arbeitseinsatz gelangten 406 Maenner (Buna) und 190 Frauen. Sonderbehandelt wurden 125 Maenner und 684 Frauen und Kinder.


The structure here is the same: some people are selected as fit for labor, and the rest are "specially treated" (Sonderbehandelt). Thus it is proven that "S.B." was abbreviation for "Sonderbehandlung" and not "Schonungsblock".
English:

The following Jewish prisoner transports arrived on March 5th and 7th. Transport from Berlin, entrance March 5, 43, total strength 1128 Jews. 389 men (Buna) and 96 women were employed. 151 men and 492 women and children were given special treatment. Transport from Breslau, entrance March 5, 43, total strength 1405 Jews. 406 men (Buna) and 190 women were employed. 125 men and 684 women and children were given special treatment.

By the way, don't get too excited Nessie. It looks like Holocaust Controversies has decided to track down the Polish book and find the actual documents and put some nice quality scans up ONLY BECAUSE MATTOGNO TALKED ABOUT IT FIRST! Let's see "Special Treatment." Part two chapter 7. THE MARCH 8 DOCUMENT IS DISCUSSED!

viewtopic.php?p=183625#p183625

As seen on pages 54-60, this special treatment had nothing to do with homicide. Jews fit for labour are being transported to the East, but on their way to the East, they have to stop in Auschwitz and perform some necessary work in armaments. Because a lot of people were passing through Auschwitz to be sent further East (thus making Auschwitz a transport camp), there was a need to expand the number of barracks needed to house people. But the Jews who couldn't work didn't have to "interrupt their journey" like the ones who were needed to do a little armament work before continuing East. So if Jews are coming to Auschwitz and later leaving, they obviously need to be cleaned and disinfected. In fact there is a Bischoff letter (p 59, Mattogno) saying these traveling Jews have to be housed separately (special accommodation) from the rest of the camp to slow spread of typhus. Cleanliness is the order of business, NOT MURDER!

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Nessie
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:45 pm
Nessie wrote:
You deniers need to make up your minds and produce evidence, since you claim morgue, air raid shelter, shower and delousing for the various kremas.
And you need to explain why the Germans would build elaborate facilities for disinfesting clothing and bedding but resort to burning tubs of coke and throwing the Zyklon B through the windows to kill the kikes.
There were originally designed as crematoriums and then as they were being constructed, rooms were modified to act as undressing rooms and gas chambers. The modifications were simple, cheap and efficient. Your claims that German engineers would find such work physically impossible are monumentally stupid and incredible :lol:
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:10 am
.......

As seen on pages 54-60, this special treatment had nothing to do with homicide.
Mattogno ignores all of the witnesses who worked at the Kremas, who all agree, that special treatment was to do with homicide, when it was people sent to the Kremas.
Jews fit for labour are being transported to the East, but on their way to the East, they have to stop in Auschwitz and perform some necessary work in armaments.
What, all of them? :?
Because a lot of people were passing through Auschwitz to be sent further East (thus making Auschwitz a transport camp)
Auschwitz was multiple camps, be specific, where are you referring to? Which people are you referring to? Show your evidence of mass transports back out and arrivals in the east.
there was a need to expand the number of barracks needed to house people. But the Jews who couldn't work didn't have to "interrupt their journey" like the ones who were needed to do a little armament work before continuing East. So if Jews are coming to Auschwitz and later leaving, they obviously need to be cleaned and disinfected. In fact there is a Bischoff letter (p 59, Mattogno) saying these traveling Jews have to be housed separately (special accommodation) from the rest of the camp to slow spread of typhus. Cleanliness is the order of business, NOT MURDER!
OK, so your claim is people not needed to work went to the Kremas to be deloused and showered and were then sent onwards to the east. The largest arrivals were the Hungarian and Lodz ghetto Jews in 1944. Show your evidence that c500,000 people over 5 months in the middle of 1944 were showered, deloused in the Kremas and then sent east to be accommodated somewhere.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Turnagain »

Uh-huh, heating the rooms with open tubs of burning coke and throwing the Zyklon B through the windows is certainly simple(minded). Efficient? Well, not so much.

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