The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

The RODOH Lounge is a place for general discussion, preferably non-Holocaust. The Lounge is only lightly moderated but please keep this a friendly place to chat with and get to know your fellow board participants.
User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8967
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

Post by been-there »

Alonso wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:44 pm
been-there wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:14 pm
So far there have been 5,083 reported deaths wordwide RELATED to complications arising from infection with the Coronavirus.
So that is far, far less than the annual deaths from ordinary influenza!
This amount of Coronavirus fatalities is less than 1% of what is considered normal from the flu.
[It's 0.782% to 1.7%]
I don't think that comparison is meaningful. The influenza has existed around the world forever (centuries, millenia or something like that) with no isolation measure taken against it. The new virus has existed only for months, it's just starting to spread around the world, and huge prevention measure are being taken.
As I understand it there is no cure nor preventative treatment for any flu virus, whether ordinary or this new zoonotic variant. The only treatment is to go home, rest, drink fluids, keep warm, etc. The same applies to this SARS-CoV-2 virus. Hundreds of thousand get it, experience mild flu symptoms and recover. Just like ordinary flu. Many thousands don't, suffer complications and die. Just like with flu.
It's still just a flu pandemic.
Ordinary flu viruses don't get the mass-panic, mass-media treatment, not even when they are also pandemics. Because the medical profession believe they know what it is and how it will behave.
So... I believe it's the unknowing that is the distinguishing factor. Thus the response in my view is more to do with psychological issues than anything else.

Now of course we DO have to take extra precautions. Because we really do not know how this will progress. No-one does. But this isn't the thirteenth, seventeenth or 20th century. This isn't 1918!

Alonso wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:44 pm
However, it is clear that the media is constantly lying about this. The most obvious lie is the mortality rate. They constantly make headlines about scary mortality rates up to 8% or 9%, and they only tell us in a small footnote that those rates are for confirmed cases, which might be 10 or even 100 times less than actual cases, meaning that the actual mortality rate of this virus could easily be lower than the mortality rate of the flu. So yes, this is scaremongering.

There is one stat here that I don't understand, though. You say that the reported deaths are RELATED to the Coronavirus. Does it mean that they are including in the death toll deaths of people who were infected but actually died of something else, like a heart attack? If that's the case, it would mean that the actual mortality rate is even lower.
Well... Yes and no. Flu is the primary cause that affects pre-existing conditions, or frailties. So even if it is a heart attack or a pre-existing pulmonary condition that was the cause of death, it WAS the flu virus (corona or otherwise) that DID exacerbate it.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous


Would you like to financially contribute to the upkeep of RODOH, kindly contact Scott Smith. All contributions are welcome!


Alonso
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:16 pm
Contact:

Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

Post by Alonso »

been-there wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:20 pm
even if it is a heart attack or a pulmonary cause of death, it WAS the flu virus (corona or otherwise) that DID exacerbate it.
That might or might not be the case. Let's say someone has cancer and he has one month to live no matter what. Then he gets the virus and dies after three weeks. The virus might or might not have caused his death (maybe he had an unrelated brain failure or what have you), but even if it did, it would be very misleading to report this death as being caused by the virus. So are this kind of deaths reported as having been caused by the virus?

User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8967
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

Post by been-there »

Alonso wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:34 pm
been-there wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:20 pm
even if it is a heart attack or a pulmonary cause of death, it WAS the flu virus (corona or otherwise) that DID exacerbate it.
That might or might not be the case. Let's say someone has cancer and he has one month to live no matter what. Then he gets the virus and dies after three weeks. The virus might or might not have caused his death (maybe he had an unrelated brain failure or what have you), but even if it did, it would be very misleading to report this death as being caused by the virus. So are these kind of deaths reported as having been caused by the virus?
Yes. Definitely that is happening.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8967
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

Post by been-there »

.
Here is one alternative and qualified viewpoint.
It is from Dr John Ioannidis Professor of Medicine, of Health Research and Policy and of Biomedical Data Science, at Stanford University School of Medicine. He is also a Professor of Statistics at Stanford University School of Humanities and Sciences. Plus he is director of the Stanford Prevention Research Centre, and co-director of the Meta-Research Innovation Centre at Stanford (METRICS). He is also the editor-in-chief of the European Journal of Clinical Investigation. He was chairman at the Department of Hygiene and Epidemiology, University of Ioannina School of Medicine as well as adjunct professor at Tufts University School of Medicine.

As a physician, scientist and author he has made contributions to evidence-based medicine, epidemiology, data science and clinical research. In addition, he pioneered the field of meta-research. He has shown that much of the published research does not meet good scientific standards of evidence.

Here is an excerpt from a newspaper article he wrote:
A fiasco in the making?

As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data

By JOHN P.A. IOANNIDIS | MARCH 17, 2020

Patients who have been tested for SARS-CoV-2 are disproportionately those with severe symptoms and bad outcomes. As most health systems have limited testing capacity, selection bias may even worsen in the near future.

The one situation where an entire, closed population was tested was the Diamond Princess cruise ship and its quarantine passengers. The case fatality rate there was 1.0%, but this was a largely elderly population, in which the death rate from Covid-19 is much higher.[…]

Could the Covid-19 case fatality rate be that low? No, some say, pointing to the high rate in elderly people. However, even some so-called mild or common-cold-type coronaviruses that have been known for decades can have case fatality rates as high as 8% when they infect elderly people in nursing homes.[…]

If we had not known about a new virus out there, and had not checked individuals with PCR tests, the number of total deaths due to “influenza-like illness” would not seem unusual this year. At most, we might have casually noted that flu this season seems to be a bit worse than average.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-f ... able-data/
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8967
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

Post by been-there »

Alonso wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:34 pm
been-there wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:20 pm
even if it is a heart attack or a pulmonary cause of death, it WAS the flu virus (corona or otherwise) that DID exacerbate it.
That might or might not be the case. Let's say someone has cancer and he has one month to live no matter what. Then he gets the virus and dies after three weeks. The virus might or might not have caused his death (maybe he had an unrelated brain failure or what have you), but even if it did, it would be very misleading to report this death as being caused by the virus. So are this kind of deaths reported as having been caused by the virus?
The following is from Prof. Hendrik Streeck who is a German HIV researcher, epidemiologist and clinical trialist. He is professor of virology, and the director of the Institute of Virology and HIV Research, at Bonn University. He makes exactly the same point you have made above:
The new pathogen is not that dangerous, it is even less dangerous than Sars-1. The special thing is that Sars-CoV-2 replicates in the upper throat area and is therefore much more infectious because the virus jumps from throat to throat, so to speak. […]

You also have to take into account that the Sars-CoV-2 deaths in Germany were exclusively old people. In Heinsberg, for example, a 78-year-old man with previous illnesses died of heart failure, and that without Sars-2 lung involvement. Since he was infected, he naturally appears in the Covid 19 statistics. But the question is whether he would not have died anyway, even without Sars-2.

Interview in Frankfurter Allgemeine, 16th March 2020

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaf ... ageIndex_2
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 6376
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh. Swabia
Contact:

Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

Post by Huntinger »

Thank you BT; this is the reason why I started a similar thread. I felt a scam was somehow underway along with debauchery within this somewhere. Corona Virus is just a normal cold virus, some a flu; I suspect most of the testing just detects Corona and not Covid19. I know that some Governments have depleted their resources and taken huge loans in billions of dollars.
I suspect the media attention controlled by a minority is responsible for this misinformation. Where I live no one has died, only just normal cold symptoms and governments forced to get loans to pay for maintenance of infrastructure.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

𝕳𝖚̈𝖓𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖗

User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8967
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

Post by been-there »

Last edited by Scott on Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: YT formatting

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest