Turnagain's Judicial Notice

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Turnagain
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Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Turnagain »

Lupus has essentially posted nothing but some "Wows" and a string of emojis. He's empty and it shows but he tries to hide it behind a sneering face. He isn't the first and he won't be the last. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.


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Huntinger
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Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Huntinger »

Instead of creating another thread on the articles, they can be discussed here and put to a thread when consolidated a little.
Article 21.
The Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge but shall take judicial notice thereof. It shall also take judicial notice of official governmental documents and reports of the United Nations, including the acts and documents of the committees set up in the various allied countries for the investigation of war crimes, and of records and findings of military or other Tribunals of any of the United Nations.
What is notable is that what is considered "common knowledge" is not defined. Note: the Katyn Massacre presented at the tribunal was an official governmental document, though the charges were dismissed. What this is saying that if it is an official document from a Government (Government not specified) it is considered as fact; this would explain why the Soviets put many alleged atrocities as "Official Government Documents" including the Governments in exile. I think this is worth discussing and clarifying.
In response to der jude mentioning different countries I will allude to the following article:
Article 22.
The permanent seat of the Tribunal shall be in Berlin. The first meetings of the members of the Tribunal and of the Chief Prosecutors shall be held at Berlin in a place to be designated by the Control Council for Germany. The first trial shall be held at Nuremberg, and any subsequent trials shall be held at such places as the Tribunal may decide.


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Werd
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Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Werd »

Lupus Rothstein wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:20 pm
Huntinger wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:46 pm
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:34 am
The Frankfurt Auschwitz war crimes trial began in 1963 a bare 12 years after the last Nuremberg trial. What leads you to believe that precedents of the war crimes trials differed?
Article 21
The Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge but shall take judicial notice thereof. It shall also take judicial notice of official governmental documents and reports of the United Nations, including the acts and documents of the committees set up in the various allied countries for the investigation of war crimes, and of records and findings of military or other Tribunals of any of the United Nations.
From this, it would appear that the alleged Holocaust and all of the associated methods were considered as "fact" and therefore under Judicial Notice. This being a "Fact" the defendants had only one course which was to deny their complicity in this fact.
What a complete circus this is turning out to be.
Let's try this again:
https://phdn.org/archives/www.mazal.org/NMT-HOME.htm
The Trials of War Criminals before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals (NMT) differ from the Trial of the Major War Criminals before the International Military Tribunal (IMT) in a number of different ways.

The IMT process held between November 14, 1945 and October 1, 1946 was held under the aegis of an international court with judges and prosecutors from the United States, Great Britain, the Provisional Government of France and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
[...]
The NMT process held from October 1946 through May of 1949 focused on many of the actual perpetrators of the war crimes. The judges and prosecutors of these war criminals were exclusively American. All documents were available to both prosecutors and defense attorneys in English and German.
So in other words IMT was first. NMT was second. Now those articles we have been talking about come from the NMT. And what did the NMT say? That they would be taking judicial notice of "FINDINGS OF MILITARY OR OTHER TRIBUNALS." So in other words, NMT took judicial notice of whatever was found at IMT. And what was found at IMT? Nazi gas chambers! 1+1=2.

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Huntinger
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Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

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Werd wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:06 am
So in other words IMT was first. NMT was second. Now those articles we have been talking about come from the NMT. And what did the NMT say? That they would be taking judicial notice of "FINDINGS OF MILITARY OR OTHER TRIBUNALS." So in other words, NMT took judicial notice of whatever was found at IMT. And what was found at IMT? Nazi gas chambers! 1+1=2.
This is not about gaskammers, they are not mentioned in the articles.


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Werd
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Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Werd »

So in other words IMT was first. NMT was second.
True or false?
Now those articles we have been talking about come from the NMT.
True or false?
And what did the NMT say? That they would be taking judicial notice of "FINDINGS OF MILITARY OR OTHER TRIBUNALS."
True or false?
So in other words, NMT took judicial notice of whatever was found at IMT.
True or false?

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Huntinger
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Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Huntinger »

Werd wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:17 am
True or false?
This says nothing, just asking questions and does not get to the root of the issue being discussed. This is using the same technique as Gerdes uses which is OK once but adds very little to a topic. Please look at all the articles which a link has been given to and discuss what might be vexxing.


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Werd
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Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

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Looks like I've made a mistake. The charter is not an NMT one, but the initial IMT charter.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/imtcons ... le%2021%22

It's in the url. It's also in the page title: Charter of the International Military Tribunal

So those articles come from "The IMT process held between November 14, 1945 and October 1, 1946" which "was held under the aegis of an international court with judges and prosecutors from the United States, Great Britain, the Provisional Government of France and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. "

Let's look at Article 21.
The Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge but shall take judicial notice thereof. It shall also take judicial notice of official governmental documents and reports of the United Nations, including the acts and documents of the committees set up in the various allied countries for the investigation of war crimes,
Does this include the "truth" of the Soviet Committee that investigated German war crimes and found Germans guilty of Katyn massacre?
...and of records and findings of military or other Tribunals of any of the United Nations.
What other military tribunals had there been by late 1945 when IMT was initiated?

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Huntinger
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Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Huntinger »

Werd wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:42 am
...and of records and findings of military or other Tribunals of any of the United Nations.
What other military tribunals had there been by late 1945 when IMT was initiated?
Important point and going off topic. The important point is the Judicial Notice of any Official Government statement. Other Military Tribunals are not of relevance at least at this point. Where does it say who the official Governments were; it on this basis seems the Soviets could say anything under official letterhead, like Katyn and taken as Judicial Notice.


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Turnagain
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Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Turnagain »

From testimony by Senator Thomas J. Dodd, executive trial counsel, IMT:
It is obvious that the persecution and murder of Jews throughout the conquered territories of Europe following 1939 are War Crimes as defined by Article 6(b)of the Charter. It further violates Article 46 of the Regulations of the Hague Convention of 1907, to which Germany was a signatory. I quote Article 46 and ask the Court to take judicial notice thereof:

"Family honor and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious convictions and practices, must be respected."
That is just one entry for "judicial notice" taken at the IMT. There are 344 entries for the search, "judicial notice" of the transcripts of the IMT at the Avalon project. It leaves room for little doubt that the IMT DIDN'T take judicial notice of what is now called the holyhoax.

The passage of the Volksverhetzung law in 1960 is further evidence that judicial notice of the holyhoax was in effect during the war crimes trials of the 1960s beginning with the Frankfurt Auschwitz trial in 1963. So, Werd, it's time for you and Lupus to come up with some evidence that judicial notice of the holyhoax wasn't a factor in the war crimes trials of the 1960s. Beginning with the IMT in 1945 and continuing until present times, judicial notice of the holyhoax has been and still is a factor in German courts. You and Lupus claim that an exception was made for the war crimes trials of the 1960s. Let's see some evidence of that assertion.

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Huntinger
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Re: Turnagain's Judicial Notice

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:43 am
So, Werd, it's time for you and Lupus to come up with some evidence that judicial notice of the holyhoax wasn't a factor in the war crimes trials of the 1960s. Beginning with the IMT in 1945 and continuing until present times, judicial notice of the holyhoax has been and still is a factor in German courts. You and Lupus claim that an exception was made for the war crimes trials of the 1960s. Let's see some evidence of that assertion.
It is assumed that you have taken cognizance of the symbiotic relationship this poster and Nessie have. Judicial Notice is a significant factor using precedence as justification for various rulings, not the least being two high profile court cases involving two prominent revisionist who I admire. This shows a failing in the legal system and must be modified in the "New World Order".


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