The main purveyors of Islamophobia

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been-there
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Re: The main purveyors of Islamophobia

Post by been-there » Tue May 07, 2019 12:22 pm

rollo the ganger wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:54 am
Hello Been There,

I saw this floating around on the internet the other day. My BS meter began to buzz when I saw it. What's your analysis, if any?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Allah.html
My BS meter also was activated. :)

The article admits this: “A translation of the video was provided by the Middle East Media Research Institute.”

1.First off, I wouldn't trust anything from MEMRI.

E.g. see here:
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/M ... _Institute

2. Then sentences like this don't inspire confidence of this being fair and accurate reporting: “Rockets and missiles from Gaza killed three civilians in Israel while Israeli strikes killed 12 Palestinians, most of them militants, in surging cross-border fighting on Sunday...”

Basically I regard this as the DAILY FAIL disseminating Israeli psychological warfare and anti-Muslim propaganda.
MEMRI is an Israeli propaganda organisation that selectively translates materials from the Arab/Muslim/Iranian press purportedly demonstrating hostility against Israel/Jews.
MEMRI was co-founded by Meyrav Wurmser and Colonel Yigal Carmon, formerly of Israeli military intelligence.
As for nations getting their children to sing songs glorifying warfare, check out this song taught to all American children.

"Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there:

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war
and the battle's confusion

A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution!

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave:

Oh, thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust":
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

source: https://www.lyricsondemand.com/n/nation ... yrics.html
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: The main purveyors of Islamophobia

Post by rollo the ganger » Tue May 07, 2019 1:15 pm

I wonder why they don't classify MEMRI as a "hate group"? They certainly qualify.

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Re: The main purveyors of Islamophobia

Post by Werd » Tue May 07, 2019 5:35 pm

been-there wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 12:22 pm
rollo the ganger wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:54 am
Hello Been There,

I saw this floating around on the internet the other day. My BS meter began to buzz when I saw it. What's your analysis, if any?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Allah.html
My BS meter also was activated. :)

The article admits this: “A translation of the video was provided by the Middle East Media Research Institute.”

1.First off, I wouldn't trust anything from MEMRI.

E.g. see here:
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/M ... _Institute

2. Then sentences like this don't inspire confidence of this being fair and accurate reporting: “Rockets and missiles from Gaza killed three civilians in Israel while Israeli strikes killed 12 Palestinians, most of them militants, in surging cross-border fighting on Sunday...”
So it is your contention those translations are not accurate? Or that this whole thing is a hoax and was not recorded in a Muslim school in America? I don't know what you are getting at specifically.

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Re: The main purveyors of Islamophobia

Post by been-there » Wed May 08, 2019 11:13 am

rollo the ganger wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:15 pm
I wonder why they don't classify MEMRI as a "hate group"? They certainly qualify.
Yes, I agree, Rollo.
It is presumably because MEMRi is created and run by Jews, for Jews, and with the motive to serve Jewish self-interests.

Society permits 'Jews' to hate — and spread hate — because it is compulsory to believe they only just survived 'THE Hollow Co$t' therefore criticising anything they do collectively is demonised as repeating an anti-semitic hate trope.
Last edited by been-there on Wed May 08, 2019 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The main purveyors of Islamophobia

Post by been-there » Wed May 08, 2019 11:55 am

been-there wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 12:22 pm
rollo the ganger wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:54 am
Hello Been There,

I saw this floating around on the internet the other day. My BS meter began to buzz when I saw it. What's your analysis, if any?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Allah.html
My BS meter also was activated. :)

The article admits this: “A translation of the video was provided by the Middle East Media Research Institute.”
1.First off, I wouldn't trust anything from MEMRI.

E.g. see here:
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/M ... _Institute

2. Then sentences like this don't inspire confidence of this being fair and accurate reporting: “Rockets and missiles from Gaza killed three civilians in Israel while Israeli strikes killed 12 Palestinians, most of them militants, in surging cross-border fighting on Sunday...”
Werd wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 5:35 pm
So it is your contention those translations are not accurate? Or that this whole thing is a hoax and was not recorded in a Muslim school in America? I don't know what you are getting at specifically.
You write that you don't know what I am getting at specifically.

Hmmmm? Interesting.

My "contention" was that “I would not trust ANYTHING from MEMRi”. NOTHING! Not ANYTHING at all.

Its a simple statement. Curious that you couldn't comprehend it.

In this particular case I wouldn't trust without checking the following:
1. that this was unedited footage
2. that it is from the claimed school,
2. that this IS an accurate translation of what was being sung,
3. etc., etc., etc.

Is that any clearer, Werd?
Basically I would doubt the accuracy of EVERY aspect of the story that could possibly be doubted.

And then — even if all of that turns out to be reliably accurate — I still doubt the implied conclusion that muslim children ALONE are being taught to glorify war and violence, and that this is somehow a further sign of how immoral and dangerous Islam is.
That seems to me to be a monumentally hypocritical and delusional/deceitful implication.

Which is why I posted some the lyrics from the US national anthem. Did you understand why I did that? Its because children are taught to sing it in American schools.

Here is a translation of parts of the French national anthem, which was originally titled "Chant de guerre pour l'Armée du Rhin" ("War song for the Rhine Army"). French children are taught to sing it in schools in France:

Aux armes, citoyens,
Formez vos bataillons,
Marchons, marchons!
Qu'un sang impur
Abreuve nos sillons!


Its calling French people to come together to kill so many other people regarded as "impure" that their blood would be sufficient to water the ploughed agricultural lands: “Let an impure blood water our furrows!"
And that is the chorus/refrain!!!! So is sung repeatedly, i.e. after every verse!

There is even a special verse of this war song written for French children.

These two national anthems are just the tip of the iceberg. As a child at Sunday School and normal school, from the age of 5 to 15 I regulary had to sing a hymn glorifying ancient Jewish genocide at Jericho and a song entitled 'onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war'.

Etc., etc., etc.

P.S.
I suggest that perhaps the reason you couldn't understand the simple and clear words I wrote was because they do not align with a deeply-held and ingrained but biased view of anything related to Muslims and their religion.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Re: The main purveyors of Islamophobia

Post by Werd » Wed May 08, 2019 1:14 pm

I wouldn't trust anything from MEMRI.
So they're lying about the translation? Funny, the American Muslim Society doesn't dispute it. They only offered an apology, not a 'correct' translation. Your apologetics are very weak and not well thought out. Since you're on a quest to clear up misunderstandings about Islam, would you mind telling me who what where when why and how all those anti woman and also anti gay quotes made it into the Koran and the Hadiths? Was it Jews? :lol:
Last edited by Werd on Wed May 08, 2019 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The main purveyors of Islamophobia

Post by Werd » Wed May 08, 2019 1:25 pm

As it turns out, this may not have been at a school, but at some sort of rented space. Also, the video was posted by the Muslim American Society to its own Facebook page. What really happened is that MEMRI saw it, gave a correct translation and has caused a huge source of embarrassment for the adults who apparently taught these children so well and rehearsed so much that they learned to make coordinated gestures with their hands and arms all at the right time. Unless certain Islam lovers want to claim it was a coincidence and this was only the children's first time and they didn't know what they were doing. All the Islam lovers can do is doubt the translation. THAT'S IT! If it is accurate, then they have no argument, and a few unsavoury Muslim adults are implicated in teaching their children to be anti American revolutionaries. Keep in mind that the Muslim American Society is NOT DISPUTING the translation either. Which MIGHT MEAN you have well behaved, westernized assimilated, anti jihad Muslims or ex Muslims working at MEMRI. So ad hominems about "well two Jews founded MEMRI" remain simply irrelevant fallacies. :lol: - Werd


https://www.phillyvoice.com/philadelphi ... isturbing/

May 06, 2019
Muslim American Society chapter's video of children speaking about beheadings was an 'oversight'
Leaders say it was recorded by a group renting space at the MAS facility in North Philly and should not have been posted to Facebook

By Emily Rolen
PhillyVoice Staff

The video posted to the Facebook page of the Philadelphia chapter of the Muslim American Society that shows children saying "we will chop off their heads" and "we will subject them to eternal torture," was not vetted by the organization's leadership, officials said.

Muslim American Society national leadership condemned the video on Sunday, calling it "disturbing" and saying it "does not represent our understanding of Islam, nor the understanding of the mainstream Muslim community."

MAS said a school, identified as a local leaders academy, that is unaffiliated with the Philadelphia chapter organized the April event and had rented the space at the local North Philly facility.

The translation of the video was circulated Friday by the Middle East Media Research Institute, an organization that describes itself as a Middle Eastern translation and research organization whose mission "bridges the language gap between the West and the Middle East and South Asia." But MEMRI's own motives for this cause have been called into question.

The video shows children wearing Palestinian scarves at an "Ummah Day" celebration on April 17 at the Muslim American Society Islamic Center in North Philadelphia singing a song. Here is one portion of the lyrics, translated by MEMRI:

"We will defend the land of divine guidance with our bodies, and we will sacrifice our souls without hesitation. We will chop off their heads, and we will liberate the sorrowful and exalted Al-Aqsa Mosque. We will lead the army of Allah fulfilling His promise, and we will subject them to eternal torture."

The lyrics refer to Israel's closure of a building in Jerusalem in February, known to Jews as the Temple Mount and by Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary. The compound, home to the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the golden Dome of the Rock, is the third-holiest Islam site and the holiest site of Judaism.

MAS national leadership posted to Facebook on Sunday after it conducted an investigation into the video.

"Unfortunately, the video from the school was uploaded to the chapter’s Facebook page without verifying the content of the video for appropriateness and making sure it conforms to our hate-free policy and values. The chapter will take further steps in assuring strict adherence to publishing and posting policies," the post read.

The post also said the person in charge of the program was dismissed and a local commission was being formed to aid in sensitivity training and supervision.
https://www.facebook.com/MuslimAmerican ... 08/?type=3

Image

Muslim American Society
May 5 at 8:42 AM ·

MAS Updated Statement on Philadelphia Video

(Washington, D.C.) - May 4th, 2019

The Muslim American Society was alerted yesterday to a disturbing video that came out of Philadelphia. MAS immediately issued a preliminary statement on our website, condemning the words used in the video as we swiftly investigated the matter. MAS’ deep commitment to values of peace, justice, freedom and sanctity of life are clear. As a faith-based organization committed to building a just and virtuous society, we stand strong in our condemnation of hate and violence anywhere, even in the lyrics of a song.

Our investigation revealed that the school that organized the event on April 17, 2019 is a separate entity renting space from MAS Philadelphia. The school board has informed us that it has taken immediate actions and dismissed the person in charge of the program. In addition, they will form a local commission to aid in sensitivity training and proper supervision for future programs.

Unfortunately, the video from the school was uploaded to the chapter’s Facebook page without verifying the content of the video for appropriateness and making sure it conforms to our hate-free policy and values. The chapter will take further steps in assuring strict adherence to publishing and posting policies.

MAS is committed to condemning hate speech everywhere. We reaffirm our commitment to MAS’ core values of justice, peace and protecting the sanctity of human life.

The mission of the Muslim American Society is to move people to strive for God consciousness, liberty, and justice, and to convey Islam with utmost clarity. We organize, advocate and build leadership in community to build a just and equitable world.
Philadelphia's Anti-Defamation League condemned the incident in a statement.

“Children should not be indoctrinated to hate. These young people should never have been asked to make speeches and dance and lip-sync to songs that glorify violence against Jews and the State of Israel. The conflict between Israelis and Palestinians is deeply complex and painful on all sides, and the only chance for a peaceful future is to teach our children to pursue peace,” the statement read.




For a balanced, sane discussion, continue reading in my newly created topic here

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Re: The main purveyors of Islamophobia

Post by been-there » Wed May 08, 2019 2:49 pm

Werd wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:14 pm
I wouldn't trust anything from MEMRI.
How far do you want to go with this? That those aren't real kids because MEMRI says so...
:roll: Well, no, I don't want to go that far. (Sheesh!) :?

Look at what you are doing, Werd. You are taking this to a ridiculous extreme.
Ask yourself, why would you feel the need to do that? OBVIOUSLY I wouldn't take it to such ridiculous extremes.

Are you familiar with MEMRI, its origins, its exposed deceptions, its focusing only on controversial Arab broadcasts and how it NEVER EVER magnifies controversial Jewish broadcasts?
Its work is subsidised by US taxpayers because as an "independent, non-partisan, non-profit" organisation, it has tax-deductible status under American law.
Memri's purpose, according to its website, is to bridge the language gap between the west - where few speak Arabic - and the Middle East, by "providing timely translations of Arabic, Farsi, and Hebrew media".

Despite these high-minded statements, several things make me uneasy whenever I'm asked to look at a story circulated by Memri. First of all, it's a rather mysterious organisation. Its website does not give the names of any people to contact, not even an office address.
The reason for this secrecy, according to a former employee, is that "they don't want suicide bombers walking through the door on Monday morning" (Washington Times, June 20).
This strikes me as a somewhat over-the-top precaution for an institute that simply wants to break down east-west language barriers.

The second thing that makes me uneasy is that the stories selected by Memri for translation follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of Arabs or they in some way further the political agenda of Israel. I am not alone in this unease.

Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations told the Washington Times: "Memri's intent is to find the worst possible quotes from the Muslim world and disseminate them as widely as possible."

Memri might, of course, argue that it is seeking to encourage moderation by highlighting the blatant examples of intolerance and extremism. But if so, one would expect it - for the sake of non-partisanship - t o publicise extremist articles in the Hebrew media too.

Although Memri claims that it does provide translations from Hebrew media, I can't recall receiving any.

Evidence from Memri's website also casts doubt on its non-partisan status. Besides supporting liberal democracy, civil society, and the free market, the institute also emphasises "the continuing relevance of Zionism to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel".

That is what its website used to say, but the words about Zionism have now been deleted. The original page, however, can still be found in internet archives.

The reason for Memri's air of secrecy becomes clearer when we look at the people behind it. The co-founder and president of Memri, and the registered owner of its website, is an Israeli called Yigal Carmon.

Mr — or rather, Colonel — Carmon spent 22 years in Israeli military intelligence and later served as counter-terrorism adviser to two Israeli prime ministers, Yitzhak Shamir and Yitzhak Rabin.

Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri's website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three — including Col Carmon — are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence.
That's an excerpt from an article in The Independent. Is that sufficiently mainstream enough for you?

The article is called 'selective MEMRI'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/ ... anwhitaker

Werd wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:14 pm
This is you once again thinking Jews will always go an extra mile to make up more things than they need to, violating Occam's Razor, like you have done before.
I regard that as denial. Mossad's motto is 'by way of deception make war'.

Image
Werd wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:14 pm
Since you're on a quest to clear up misunderstandings about Islam, would you mind telling me...
I am on a quest to inform people who is the main disseminatir of anti-Arab, anti-Islamic, anti-anyone-in-the-middle-east-who-is-not-jewish MISINFORMATION.
You appear to me to be repeatedly getting your knickers in a twist and try and on this occassion seek to shift the goalpoasts away from discussion of MEMRI's obvious bias, factual unreliability, and pro-Israeli motivation BECAUSE you have been deceived by their pro-Israel-motivated propaganda and haven't either the self-awareness or humility to acknowledge that.
Last edited by been-there on Wed May 08, 2019 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The main purveyors of Islamophobia

Post by Werd » Wed May 08, 2019 2:52 pm

I know about past critiques of MEMRI but those are IRRELEVANT TO THE ONE VIDEO WITH CHILDREN THAT IS CURRENTLY UNDER DISCUSSION. I have known for years about their Mossad origins. Norman Finkelstein's anti MEMRI work clued me in.
You appear to me to be repeatedly getting your knickers in a twist and try and on this occassion seek to shift the goalpoasts away from discussion of MEMRI's obvious bias
Wow. This is ironic considering it is YOU who is trying to shift discussion away from whether or not the translation of those poems and songs those Muslim children were performing is accurate. You are a hypocrite of the highest order. :lol: The issue is not "bias" but rather "translation."

MEMRI's Mossad origins, lobby in Washington and lies about arabs doing 9-11 (it was Israel, America, Canada and British Intelligence), have nothing to do with this one video under discussion. Since the MAS offered an apology, and not a 'correct' translation of this one video of children, the issue is settled as far as I'm concerned.
I am on a quest to inform people who is the main disseminatir of anti-Arab, anti-Islamic, anti-anyone-in-the-middle-east-who-is-not-jewish MISINFORMATION.
So go ahead and accept this challenge then instead of being a coward.
Werd wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:14 pm
would you mind telling me who what where when why and how all those anti woman and also anti gay quotes made it into the Koran and the Hadiths? Was it Jews?
Come and meet me in those other topics and provide your expert Quaranic-Hadith exegesis. ;)

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Re: The main purveyors of Islamophobia

Post by been-there » Wed May 08, 2019 3:01 pm

Werd wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:52 pm
MEMRI's Mossad origins, lobby in Washington and lies about arabs doing 9-11 (it was Israel, America, Canada and British Intelligence), have nothing to do with this one video under discussion. Since the MAS offered an apology, and not a 'correct' translation of this one video of children, the issue is settled as far as I'm concerned.
Ha ha ha! :lol:

Sure, its settled for you. We all know that. And it has been noticed how you repeatedly filtered out / ignored / didn't register my points about the hypocrisy of western nations (including you yourself) being triggered to be outraged by children singing songs glorifying war, killing, defending themselves against enemies. :)

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