Treblinka

Discuss the alleged Nazi genocide or other wartime atrocities without fear of censorship. No bullying of fellow posters is allowed at RODOH. If you can't be civil, please address the argument and not the participants. Do not use disparaging alterations of the user-names of other RODOH posters or their family members. Failure to heed warnings from Moderators will result in a 24 hour ban (or longer if necessary).
User avatar
blake121666
Posts: 2936
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:26 am
Contact:

Re: Treblinka

Post by blake121666 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:16 am

Here is everything Henry Robertson, nee Heinz Rosenberg, says in that very long interview about his single-day transit through Treblinka:
Heinz Rosenberg wrote: A: ... Then early in the
morning the SS opened these cattle car doors and they were standing there with the German
shepherds and with the kapos and they shouted “Get out you dirty Jews, get out, run, run, run,
get out, get out, run.” And we saw a gate and it said Treblinka. And it said “Arbeit Mach Frei,
the work will make you free.”

Q: And this was the middle of September?

A: This was probably the 17th or 18th of September, 1943. And we came to this camp, we had to
run. It was a terrible sweet smell. A terrible smell. We didn’t know what Treblinka was, we
had no idea. And we saw prisoners pulling tremendous loads, a wagon with shoes and with
clothes. And we were put separate on one spot, the 200, some had died, I don’t remember how
many made it or not. About 240 most probably. And there were kapos and there were Dutch
Jews and they told us where you from? I said we’re from Minsk. They said this is the ______
commando that meant this is the commando to heaven. I said what are you talking about?
Well, you will see, this is the commando to heaven. Do you have anything good with you? I
said why? I need this. You don’t need it anymore. They were one hundred per cent sure, these
kapos, we would be gassed too.
So after a while, we were standing there about three hours, not
permitted to go to the toilet, there were no toilets. After three hours an SS delegation came and
said, are there any carpenters here? Yes, three carpenters. Any locksmiths? Yes. Any
plumbers? Yes. Any electricians? Yes. Get out, get out, get out. And I, my friend Herman
Hoffman was an electrician, he said to me, if they ask for locksmith next time, get out too.
Locksmith? Yes. I knew about it, I was in the steam room. I got out too. We took Otto
Menkin with us and Herman and about hundred people went out. And they said are there any
gardeners? Yes. Everybody went as a gardener. The gardeners we never saw again. But we
were pushed on the side and we went to a barrack and we had to undress. We had still not
prison uniforms but we had old clothes marked with ___. So we had to undress. The little
thing we had, here, here, here. Nothing. We were searched from top to bottom. Then we went
into a shower room. We didn’t know what it was. And we got out and then we came to a room
where they gave us each one a new uniform and wooden shoes or something like this and then
they said you will stay here and you will be transported to Deshov. So the kapos said to us, that
kapos, you are the first group that came in and goes out of here alive. So we still didn’t know
what Treblinka was. I never heard about Treblinka before, you know. But we heard the smell
and he said this is a death factory. But you know, even getting from the ghetto in Minsk, even
seeing everything, we didn’t know what a death factory was, you know. We didn’t know, we
didn’t know. So in the evening they put us back on a cattle car to Puchine which wasn’t too far
away. Because the next morning we got there. In Puchine was a work camp, a concentration
work camp, a very small camp. And we worked for the Heinkel factory. This was taken over
by the, this used to be Polish airplane factory, taken over by the Germans and we got there was
a small camp and this camp was, there were about 250 Polish Jews and women there. And just
before we got there, the SS had executed all the children there by beheading them. And the
grave, you know the mothers and fathers had to watch, there were about fifty children.
So we
got there, the Polish Jews did not like the German Jews, they called us the Yekkas. There was
always friction, but they were in command. And we were put to work there in Puchine in one
camp and then the next camp. This lasted about, I would think, four or six months. I can’t
remember I have to look it up in my book. If you wait a minute I can get it. You want me to
make sure of the dates?

Q: Sure.

A: It was from September 17 to April 21, 1944, in Puchine. ...
So his description fits T-II better than T-I. Or at least the man clearly means to be referring to T-II in this interview. The interview itself has this man recounting details from before he was born (1915 - he was born in 1921) to the time of this interview.

T-II ceased the alleged gassings on August 19, 1943. This Rosenberg is claiming to have been there for about 1/2 day (tops) on September 17, 1943 - approximately a month after the last alleged T-II gassing.

EDIT: BTW, it isn't generally thought that either T-II or T-I had an "Arbeit Macht Frei" sign.

EDIT II: What was this Puchine camp he is referring to? If it was not near Treblinka, that would be good reason to doubt he was at either T-I or T-II.

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 25908
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Treblinka

Post by Nessie » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:46 am

The point is that been-there was declaring TII a transit camp based on Hunts video. Even Hunt has said he was wrong. I have shown how Hunt cobbled together a deception where he claims people were referring to TII when they went for showers and were transited through.

TII's entrance was a train station. TI was a work camp. Rosenberg went to the work camp and is discussing showers there.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 25908
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Treblinka

Post by Nessie » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:29 pm

Ferenc and Kucharek speak about the terrible smell that came from TII.

https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findin ... trl_en.pdf

"A: Well, they said that many Jews had run away, but that they were caught. They were caught
and murdered. And one more thing...what did I want to say... there!—in ‘43 General
Goering came here to inspect the camp.
Q: Which camp?
A: The Jewish camp. Because initially they didn’t manage to burn all the Jews in the furnaces so
they were digging the ditches and burying them there. After he arrived he ordered to dig
the Jews up and burn their bodies on the wood stakes in order to—to disguise it. So I
lived about ten kilometers away and when the wind blew over there it was—it was such
burnt stench—when it burned—it stank so... But they didn’t manage to excavate them
all. Many remained."

https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findin ... trl_en.pdf

"Not the smoke but the stench! When we would sit at the table and there was a wind;
from the south, from Treblinka to Małkinia; then you weren’t able to sit still. It stank
so badly at the beginning. And later, you know my friend, they made this
[he coughs]...the crematorium; they were burning._______later it didn’t stink; but at the
beginning they were burning it in the open."

That corroborates the evidence from within the camp, from witnesses and later archaeological studies that mass cremations did take place.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 25908
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Treblinka

Post by Nessie » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:53 am

This thread is proof that been-there is a censor and he has total disrespect for the open spirit of the forum and free speech.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 25908
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Treblinka

Post by Nessie » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:59 am

Here been-there does his usual of making it look like he has written the text in the thread, by not using quotation marks and leaving the source to the end of the thread.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=3067#p117387

It is just a series of copy and paste photos and text, not original work, which casts doubt on been-there's ability to understand what he has written. When he finally does use his own words, we get this;
been-there wrote:Maybe that's because he wasn't guilty of what he was accused of.
That is pure sepeculation designed to reinforce his desired narrative. It would have been more convenient if he had stood trial and his reason for suicide could also have been because his role in T4 was about to be made public. The post is another propaganda puff piece of the standard expected from a school pupil.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
DasPrussian
Posts: 3239
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Treblinka

Post by DasPrussian » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:43 pm

Been There's recent post on his 'formal proposition' thread 'Treblinka' includes his musings on Dr Irmfried Eberl who was the first commander of Treblinka 2 ( the death camp). He starts off with reproducing the transcript from a "communiqué sent from Dr. Irmfried Eberl to Dr. Heinz Auerswald, Commissioner for the Warsaw Ghetto" and decides to highlight the part that gives the subject matter as being "Work Camp Treblinka". viewtopic.php?f=28&p=118088#p117387

BT doesn't make any comment, so one must presume he believes he is just offering documentary proof that demonstrates the non-homicidal nature of Treblinka 2. Unfortunately for BT (and this is why he probably decided not to offer any further comment in his narrative ) he has only succeeded in helping to debunk the 'Transit Camp' theory peddled by his holocaust denying friends, as a 'work camp' is not a 'transit camp' .

He then produces a letter from Eberl to his wife that contains the line :

Since you represent for me the beautiful part of my life, you should not know everything about it ( the camp).


I wonder if BT has asked himself why Eberl suggests that camp operations are that terrible that someone who represents 'beauty' should not be allowed to know the details ? Does BT even find this 'suspicious' considering what we have since learnt about camp operations by way of perpetrator and witness testimony , circumstantial evidence (missing 2 million Jews), indirect documentary evidence ( Korherr, Hoeffle) along with direct documentary evidence (Stroop) ??

He then concludes by quoting another letter from Eberl, this time to his wife and son presumably after he'd been interrogated . The quoted part reads as follows :

“one will look in vain for an admittal of guilt or words of regret and remorse”

......which BT naively interprets as meaning he was innocent !! Then he comments how 'convenient' it was for the accusers that he decided to top himself while awaiting trial. Again I challenge BT to honestly admit if he has asked himself whether a more likely interpretation of the quote is that Eberl believes because he was acting under orders then he was not personally guilty, and because he physically did not murder anyone, then he was equally not guilty ???? This defence tactic was used by many Nazi perpetrators in post war trials https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... GHlPQ7ZnMl

It appears to me this is another classic case of a 'revisionist' presenting evidence that debunks the very argument they are trying to make !! :lol: :lol:
All I want for Christmas is a Dukla Prague away kit

User avatar
DasPrussian
Posts: 3239
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Treblinka

Post by DasPrussian » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:44 pm

Been There's most recent post about Hoss in his Treblinka thread is another waste of space. He thinks he has caught Hoss 'lying' in respect of the date Hoss gave for visiting Treblinka. According to Been There, Hoss claims in his 'memoirs' it was September 41 when he visited , before the camp was even built !

Unfortunately for BT , if he had read his own post where he quoted Hoss's testimony at Nuremberg , then he would have discovered that Hoss actually confirmed he had visited Treblinka .........
At that time the action in connection with the Warsaw Ghetto was in progress
viewtopic.php?f=28&p=118088#p118088

The Warsaw Ghetto Action took place in the summer of 42 and lasted until September 42, so obviously in his 'memoirs' he just made an error in the dates, quite understandable considering the trauma he had suffered at the hands of his captors.

So again we have another example of a 'denier' presenting evidence that debunks his own argument !!! Just like the previous instance here viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3069&p=118191#p118191
All I want for Christmas is a Dukla Prague away kit

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 25908
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Treblinka

Post by Nessie » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:07 am

The Nazis never made a mistake, or used bad grammar (reference to a claim Wannsee is forged by Werd). Any mistake is actually a lie according to deniers.

That makes deniers big fat liars, considering all the errors they make!
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 3780
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh.
Contact:

Treblinka

Post by Huntinger » Mon May 06, 2019 5:31 pm

Where are the Polish Transit Camps?
Many people fail to see the purpose of a "transit camp". These were special camps designed to hold people for a short while until their destination for the purposes of work was clarified.
Most transit camps were situated near railway lines and also within walking and trucking distance of Abeitslager or other places of work, This is because the long distances were traversed by rail for the passenger and the shorter distances could be walked or trucked. The transit camps were also a place of quarantine and disinfestation where the workers were deloused, head shaved and of course showered, with clean clothes given afterwards.
German-occupied Poland contained 457 camp complexes. Some of the major concentration and forced labour camps consisted of dozens of subsidiary camps scattered over a broad area. At the Gross-Rosen concentration camp (to which Polish nationals were expelled from the annexed part of Poland) the number of subcamps was 97. Under Auschwitz, Birkenau, and Auschwitz III (Monowitz) with thousands of prisoners each, the number of satellite camps was 48. Stutthof concentration camp had 40 sub-camps officially and as many as 105 sub-camps in operation, some as far as Elbląg, Bydgoszcz and Toruń, at a distance of 200 kilometres from the main camp. In addition people were billeted out on farm to do farm labouring for the necessary food.
Between the Bug and Vistula river there were thousands of such camps.
While Birkenau transit camp catered for work stations nearby Treblinka and other camps near the Bug river provided Labour for the thousands of work stations nearby.
It has been claimed that these transit camps by the Bug river were in fact extermination camps, which begs the question "if so where then are the necessary "transit camps" in the area to support all of the Labour camps, farms and industrial complexes.. They have to be somewhere near the railway lines to provide the workers.
On the map below the Transit camps elsewhere are marked with a T, so why are not transit camps marked in Poland, they are a necessity. The location of the transit camps where they should be have been marked as extermination camps.
Image
𝕲𝖊𝕾𝖙𝖆𝕻𝖔
𝔊𝔢𝔥𝔢𝔦𝔪𝔢 𝔲𝔫𝔡 𝔖𝔱𝔞𝔞𝔱𝔰𝔭𝔬𝔩𝔦𝔷𝔢𝔦 𝔣𝔲̈𝔯 𝔡𝔢𝔫 𝔖𝔦𝔠𝔥𝔢𝔯𝔥𝔢𝔦𝔱𝔰𝔡𝔦𝔢𝔫𝔰𝔱...𝕹𝕾𝕯𝕬𝕻

User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8131
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: Treblinka

Post by been-there » Mon May 06, 2019 6:25 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 5:31 pm
Where are the Polish Transit Camps?
Many people fail to see the purpose of a "transit camp". These were special camps designed to hold people for a short while until their destination for the purposes of work was clarified.
Most transit camps were situated near railway lines and also within walking and trucking distance of Abeitslager or other places of work, This is because the long distances were traversed by rail for the passenger and the shorter distances could be walked or trucked. The transit camps were also a place of quarantine and disinfestation where the workers were deloused, head shaved and of course showered, with clean clothes given afterwards.
German-occupied Poland contained 457 camp complexes. Some of the major concentration and forced labour camps consisted of dozens of subsidiary camps scattered over a broad area. At the Gross-Rosen concentration camp (to which Polish nationals were expelled from the annexed part of Poland) the number of subcamps was 97. Under Auschwitz, Birkenau, and Auschwitz III (Monowitz) with thousands of prisoners each, the number of satellite camps was 48. Stutthof concentration camp had 40 sub-camps officially and as many as 105 sub-camps in operation, some as far as Elbląg, Bydgoszcz and Toruń, at a distance of 200 kilometres from the main camp. In addition people were billeted out on farm to do farm labouring for the necessary food.
Between the Bug and Vistula river there were thousands of such camps.
While Birkenau transit camp catered for work stations nearby Treblinka and other camps near the Bug river provided Labour for the thousands of work stations nearby.
It has been claimed that these transit camps by the Bug river were in fact extermination camps, which begs the question "if so where then are the necessary "transit camps" in the area to support all of the Labour camps, farms and industrial complexes.. They have to be somewhere near the railway lines to provide the workers.
On the map below the Transit camps elsewhere are marked with a T, so why are not transit camps marked in Poland, they are a necessity. The location of the transit camps where they should be have been marked as extermination camps.
Image
Excellent post!
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Werd and 8 guests