Who really does have no evidence?

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Nessie
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Re: Who really does have no evidence?

Post by Nessie » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:30 am

Huntinger wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:39 am
Nessie wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:19 am
Scott shows the problem about the denier argument;

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3615#p143601
Scott wrote:A key problem with studying the homicidal gaschambers--which Faurisson was certainly correct in doing and doubting--that is easily overlooked in such discussions, is that it is ONE THING to say that something could not have technically worked EVER, and quite another that this could not have worked AS CLAIMED.
The denier claim is that gassings could not have been done as CLAIMED, not EVER. The issue with that is, as deniers admit, witnesses are unreliable, so witnesses should not be sole source that something could not be done. It is wrong to argue that it could not be done as CLAIMED, therefore it cannot have been done EVER.

So, other evidence has to be found to establish if what the witnesses said happened did happen or not. Deniers then refuse to do that, because they know the other evidence, documents, photos etc support the gassing claim and nothing else.

Instead deniers resort to the logical fallacies of incredulity and ignorance, whereby they argue because it cannot be done AS CLAIMED, it could not have technically worked EVER. That is a non sequitur.
Nessie it is not us denying it.
Yes it is.
The British have admitted that it was a hoax, scaremongering by the Poles and Jude to get greater allied involvement to their cause.
Not true.
See the formal propositions above. They said they used this fake information in their propaganda war so please pull the blanket over your face and go to sleep and non sequitur to heaven. They have stated there were no gassing but claim there was genocide so you may be well advised to re think instead of being stuck in your rut. You live in an eternal bog hole which not even the muds of Poland or Russia could create. That is hell and no amount of evidence will get you out of it.
I will only reconsider my position based on evidence. Something you do not have.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Who really does have no evidence?

Post by Huntinger » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:33 am

Nessie wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:30 am
I will only reconsider my position based on evidence. Something you do not have.
We only consider our position based on evidence, that it happened. This is something none of you hoaxers have apart from lies. Until you can find something new then fornicate yourself and go away you silly fool.

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Re: Who really does have no evidence?

Post by Nessie » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:24 am

Huntinger wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:33 am
Nessie wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:30 am
I will only reconsider my position based on evidence. Something you do not have.
We only consider our position based on evidence...
What evidence? You need to start with evidence they left the camps. You have not even been able to manage that.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Who really does have no evidence?

Post by Nessie » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:32 am

The classic denier argument;
Scott wrote:Any mass-gassing scenarios would need other process-engineering considerations besides heating and circulation, of course. Not much about the gassing stories makes sense when you look closely. It just made good atrocity-propaganda.

:)
Scott is using the logical fallacies of incredulity and ignorance as excuses to disbelieve the evidence for gassing, whilst at the same time ignoring that the only alternative of those people not selected to work left the camps, is not evidenced at all.

It does not matter that Scott thinks gassing as described was impossible to do. It is perfectly possible to lock people up in secure rooms and gas them, the Nazis had it figured out. They got numerous delousing chambers where clothes were treated with Zyklon B to work. They used Zyklon B to fumigate many buildings in the camps. To suggest they could not work out how to secure people in a room and introduce just enough Zyklon B to kill them, is a nonsense.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Who really does have no evidence?

Post by Huntinger » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:26 am

Nessie wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:32 am
The classic denier argument;
Scott wrote:Any mass-gassing scenarios would need other process-engineering considerations besides heating and circulation, of course. Not much about the gassing stories makes sense when you look closely. It just made good atrocity-propaganda.

:)
Scott is using the logical fallacies of incredulity and ignorance as excuses to disbelieve the evidence for gassing, whilst at the same time ignoring that the only alternative of those people not selected to work left the camps, is not evidenced at all.

It does not matter that Scott thinks gassing as described was impossible to do. It is perfectly possible to lock people up in secure rooms and gas them, the Nazis had it figured out. They got numerous delousing chambers where clothes were treated with Zyklon B to work. They used Zyklon B to fumigate many buildings in the camps. To suggest they could not work out how to secure people in a room and introduce just enough Zyklon B to kill them, is a nonsense.
Nessie get it in your head, there were no gassing of people only vermin. Cavendish wrote:
. As regards putting Poles to death in gas chambers, I do not believe that there is any evidence that this has been done. There have been many stories to this effect, and we have played them up in P.W.E. rumours without believing that they had any foundation. This is the person who propagated this load of bullshit and you in your stupidity continue to believe it; you really are a simpleton to say the least. Your posts down here suggest a pathetic sublime figure really not worthy of attention. You are pathetic. Hände hoch, du untermenschliche Judenschweine.
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Re: Who really does have no evidence?

Post by Nessie » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:39 am

Huntinger wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:26 am
Nessie wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:32 am
The classic denier argument;
Scott wrote:Any mass-gassing scenarios would need other process-engineering considerations besides heating and circulation, of course. Not much about the gassing stories makes sense when you look closely. It just made good atrocity-propaganda.

:)
Scott is using the logical fallacies of incredulity and ignorance as excuses to disbelieve the evidence for gassing, whilst at the same time ignoring that the only alternative of those people not selected to work left the camps, is not evidenced at all.

It does not matter that Scott thinks gassing as described was impossible to do. It is perfectly possible to lock people up in secure rooms and gas them, the Nazis had it figured out. They got numerous delousing chambers where clothes were treated with Zyklon B to work. They used Zyklon B to fumigate many buildings in the camps. To suggest they could not work out how to secure people in a room and introduce just enough Zyklon B to kill them, is a nonsense.
Nessie get it in your head, there were no gassing of people only vermin. Cavendish wrote:
. As regards putting Poles to death in gas chambers, I do not believe that there is any evidence that this has been done. There have been many stories to this effect, and we have played them up in P.W.E. rumours without believing that they had any foundation. This is the person who propagated this load of bullshit and you in your stupidity continue to believe it; you really are a simpleton to say the least....
That was written in 1943, when there was some disbelief at the Polish reports of gassings. That just proves from the start there was scepticism, but in the end, due to evidence, it was found that many reports of gassings were correct.
Your posts down here suggest a pathetic sublime figure really not worthy of attention. You are pathetic. Hände hoch, du untermenschliche Judenschweine.
...
I am here because deniers hate being asked to evidence what they think did happen.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Who really does have no evidence?

Post by Huntinger » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:30 am

Nessie wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:39 am
I am here because deniers hate being asked to evidence what they think did happen.
You are a nutter, that is what you are. Hände hoch, du untermenschliche Judenschweine.

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Re: Who really does have no evidence?

Post by Turnagain » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:53 pm

Nessie wrote:
I am here because deniers hate being asked to evidence what they think did happen.
GFY.

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Re: Who really does have no evidence?

Post by Nessie » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:55 am

The denier tactic of claiming no evidence for gassings get more ridiculous. This claim is made to Das Prussian;

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3592&start=110#p143789
You've given witnesses to the gassing, the burials, the exhumations and the cremations that are alleged to have taken place at Treblinka? I can't find any posts of yours where you listed names of witnesses to the alleged atrocities at Treblinka so how about a link to them or give us the names of three or four of your preferred witnesses.
But it was Das Prussian who produced this thread;

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3196

which lists dozens of witnesses to gassings. That has been buried on page 6 of the Holocaust debate section, so deniers can pretend there is no evidence. The TII witness are;

D1) Treblinka Nazis :


1) Franz Stangl 1970 - Dussledorf
Camp commander Sobibor and Treblinka
2) Kurt Franz 1964 - Dussledorf
deputy camp commander. 'the doll'
3) Willi Mentz 1964 - Dussledorf
'the gunman of Treblinka' - 'frankenstein'
4) Heinrich Mattes 1964 - Dussledorf
'doctor'
5) Otto von Horn 1964 - Dussledorf
1990's - IvanTerrible
(witness)
6) Erwin Lambert 1964 - Dussledorf
'the flying architect'
7) Franz Suchomel 1964 - Dussledorf
8) August Miete 1964 - Dussledorf
'Angel of death'
9) Gustav Munzberger 1964 - Dussledorf
10) Otto Stadie 1964 - Dussledorf
11) Rudolf Hoess
Auschwitz camp commander
12) Dr Irmfried Erbel arrested jan 48
First commander of camp - replaced for incompetence
13) Erich Fuchs
based at sobibor

D2) Treblinka Ukranian camp staff :

1) Feodor Federenko 1.pre-trial testimony
25.05.76 hartford usa
2.denaturalisation
USA june 78
3. Russian Trial - 1950?
2) Nikolay Shalayev ( guard and motorist) 1. protokol doprosa -
18.12.50 (federenko trial?)
2. Jack Reimer trial -
usa 2004 - GX-126
3) Ivan Semyonovich Shevchenko 1. protokol doprosa -
08.09.44.
2. GARF 7445-2-34 p19
4) Pavel Leleko protokol doprosa -
20.02.45.
5) Nikolai Malagon 1. interrogation -
18.03.78 russia
(for demjanuk trial ?)
6) Prokofij Ryabtsev 1.protokol doprosa -
03.02.65.
2. Jack Reimer trial -
usa 2004 - GX-121
7) Georgij Aleksandr Skidan 1. 26.05.50
2. Jack Reimer trial -
usa 2004 - GX-141

D3) Treblinka - Jewish inmates :

1) Jankiel Wiernik - 8/42-8/43 revolt Polish Commission 1946
Eichmann Trial - 1961
2) Chil Rajchman - 9/42-8/43 revolt Polish Commission 1946
(Yechiel Reichman) Demjanuk Trial - USA 1981
Demjanuk Trial - Israel 1988
YVT - 03/3816
3) Jerzy Rajgrotski -9/42-8/43 revolt jewish historical institute
1958 no25 106-108
4) Sonia Lewkowicz - 12/42-8/43 revolt Federenko Trial - USA 1978
Demjanuk Trial - USA 1981
YVT - 03/4181
5) Abraham Goldfarb - 8/42 - 8/43 revolt Protokol doprosa - 21.09.44
GARF 7445-2-134 P31
YVT - 03/1846
6) Chaim Sztajer -9/42 - 8/43 revolt Demjanuk Trial - Israel 1988
7) Pinchas Epstein - 9/42-8/43 revolt Demjanuk Trial - Israel 1988
Eichmann Trial - 1961
8) Samuel Rajzman - 9/42-8/43 Polish Commission 1946
note - mainly hearsay nuremberg - 1946
Yad Vashem Testimony
Federenko Trial - USA 1978
1964 Dussledorf
report 1944
YVT 03/547
9) Eliyahu Rosenberg - 9/42-8/43 revolt Statement Vienna 1947
Demjanuk Trial - USA 1981
Eichmann Trial - 1961
YVA 03/4039
10) Abraham Bomba - 9/42 - 12/42 escaped
11) Abraham Kaszepicki - 8/42-9/42 for 18 days escaped report dec 42
12) Mendel Korytnicki - ?? Protokol doprosa - 23.09.44
GARF 7445-2-134 P56r
13) David Milgroim - 1942 escaped after a week report made in slovakia 8/43
note - unsure if hearsay OSS? In istanbul recd 1944
14) Leon Finklestein - 7/42 - 8/43 revolt Polish Commission 1946
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Who really does have no evidence?

Post by Trolljegeren » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:58 am

Oh the same load of Soviet inspired liars he puts out every year. Nessie are you constipated? try cod liver oil

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