Katyn

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Goody67
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Re: Katyn

Post by Goody67 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:44 pm

been-there wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:40 pm
You don't know what Hitler and Goebbels said and wrote because you are relying on translators and historians who are not impartial and objective. Nor do you know the complexity and totality of their viewpoints. And as already explained you are believing these biased translated, cherry-picked comments where they were talking a 'war' rhetoric and feeling a 'war' passion, but you are projecting onto it while removing it from its 'war' context.
I knew it. It's a tactic often used by deniers that is not supposed by any evidence.

Do you speak and write German? Can you provide some sources that prove the translations are not objective?
The Führer once again expressed his determination to clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that has now overtaken them. Their destruction will go hand in hand with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process with cold ruthlessness.
A judgment is being visited upon the Jews that, while barbaric, is fully deserved by them. The prophecy which the Führer made about them for having brought on a new world war is beginning to come true in a most terrible manner. One must not be sentimental in these matters. If we did not fight the Jews, they would destroy us. It's a life-and-death struggle between the Aryan race and the Jewish bacillus.
What is ambiguous about either of those quotes?
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Re: Katyn

Post by been-there » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:56 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:44 pm
been-there wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:40 pm
You don't know what Hitler and Goebbels said and wrote because you are relying on translators and historians who are not impartial and objective. Nor do you know the complexity and totality of their viewpoints. And as already explained you are believing these biased translated, cherry-picked comments where they were talking a 'war' rhetoric and feeling a 'war' passion, but you are projecting onto it while removing it from its 'war' context.
I knew it. It's a tactic often used by deniers that is not supposed by any evidence.

Do you speak and write German? Can you provide some sources that prove the translations are not objective?

What is ambiguous about either of those quotes?

Q: What sort of person calls someone a "denier" for having an agnostic approach to Christianity and religious superstitious belief?

A: A Christian true-believer who is incapable of contemplating the possibility that they themselves could be in error.

Do you see? You are again showing your limiting, true-believer approach.

Yes I can read and speak some German. I lived and worked in Germany as a teenager and again in my twenties. Though I have forgotten much of it due to living, working and conversing daily in another continental European country for nearly two decades.

There is already some analysis out there on the unreliability of some of these 'translated' comments. Try the work of Thomas Dalton.

Plus there is very little out there, but some, showing the prevalence of racist, dehumanising rhetoric from the Allies of the German and Japanese peoples that could equably be interpreted as genocidal. Remember, we have to 'read' these comments in their proper 'war' context.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Re: Katyn

Post by Goody67 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:14 pm

been-there wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:56 pm

Q: What sort of person calls someone a "denier" for having an agnostic approach to Christianity and religious superstitious belief?

A: A Christian true-believer who is incapable of contemplating the possibility they themselves could be in error.
Christians and deniers share the same mentality - one is either with us or against us. Also, both are so brainwashed that they don't even bother looking at the other evidence.

Christians think non-believers are going to Hell. Deniers think anyone that disagrees with them is a Zionist, Jew, anti-German, communist, etc.
Do you see? You are again showing your limiting, true-believer approach.
Even though I have read the works of revisionists and found nothing convincing.

What aspects of the Holocaust do you deny?
Yes I can read and speak some German. I lived and worked in Germany as a teenager and again in my twenties. Though I have forgotten much of it due to living, working and conversing daily in another European country for nearly two decades.
Which translations of speeches or text do you find questionable?
There is already some analysis out there on the unreliability of some of these 'translated' comments. Try the work of Thomas Dalton.
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... ation.html

As I thought, Dalton is another one who clearly tries to claim that words meant a different meaning when quite clearly in the context they were used they did not.

Let me guess, Himmler was not referring to extermination when he used the word "Ausrottung" in the Posen speech?
Plus there is very little out there, but some, showing the prevalence of racist, dehumanising rhetoric from the Allies of the German and Japanese peoples that could equably be interpreted as genocidal. Remember the 'war' context.
Did the Allies have a plan to exterminate a whole group of people?
Deniers are a few bricks short of a load.

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Re: Katyn

Post by Huntinger » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:42 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:14 pm
  1. What aspects of the Holocaust do you deny?
  2. As I thought, Dalton is another one who clearly tries to claim that words meant a different meaning when quite clearly in the context they were used they did not.
  3. Let me guess, Himmler was not referring to extermination when he used the word "Ausrottung" in the Posen speech?
  4. Did the Allies have a plan to exterminate a whole group of people?
I realize you are replying to BT but this nonsense is completely off topic again. The Posen speech is of little interest here and the Ausrottung has been spoken about to death. In the comments above there is nothing there which is to do with the incident at Katyn nor the intended thread intention except perhaps the last point.
The allies colluded with the Russians in that they knew of the massacre but hoped the Germans would continue to get the blame.

We propose that the Allies also know of the fake genocide allegations but continue to keep that hidden from public knowledge.
𝕲𝖊𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖒𝖊 𝕾𝖙𝖆𝖆𝖙𝖘𝖕𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖟𝖊𝖎 𝖋𝖚̈𝖗 𝖉𝖊𝖓 𝕾𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖙𝖘𝖉𝖎𝖊𝖓𝖘𝖙

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Re: Katyn

Post by Goody67 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:46 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:42 pm
We propose that the Allies also know of the fake genocide allegations but continue to keep that hidden from public knowledge.
Do you have any evidence to support whatever claim you are making?
Deniers are a few bricks short of a load.

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Re: Katyn

Post by Huntinger » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:57 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:46 pm
Do you have any evidence to support whatever claim you are making?
It is a proposal open to discussion not a claim. As it is classified I doubt if the Intelligence authorities will pass that onto revisionists.
If these authorities and governments have been instrumental in the cover up of the murder of thousands and thousands of Polish intelligentsia and military personnel, it is highly likely they have been complicit in the cover-up of other alleged atrocities committed by the same people, not necessarily the alleged holocaust but the expatriation, repatriation of people including assimilation into the Motherland.
𝕲𝖊𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖒𝖊 𝕾𝖙𝖆𝖆𝖙𝖘𝖕𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖟𝖊𝖎 𝖋𝖚̈𝖗 𝖉𝖊𝖓 𝕾𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖙𝖘𝖉𝖎𝖊𝖓𝖘𝖙

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Re: Katyn

Post by Goody67 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:04 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:57 pm
It is a proposal open to discussion not a claim. As it is classified I doubt if the Intelligence authorities will pass that onto revisionists.
If these authorities and governments have been instrumental in the cover up of the murder of thousands and thousands of Polish intelligentsia and military personnel, it is highly likely they have been complicit in the cover-up of other alleged atrocities committed by the same people, not necessarily the alleged holocaust but the expatriation, repatriation of people including assimilation into the Motherland.
In other words, you posted a load of rubbish that you know is BS.

It would be great if you would make constructive posts, you waste too much time posting unsupported claims and utter BS.
Deniers are a few bricks short of a load.

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Re: Katyn

Post by Huntinger » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:23 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:04 pm


In other words, you posted a load of rubbish that you know is BS.

It would be great if you would make constructive posts, you waste too much time posting unsupported claims and utter BS.
It is noticed that you have nothing constructive to say at all. Please follow the thread intention and discuss this as Friedrich intended which is to examine the US complicity in all of this. If you cannot do this then it would be best if you do not comment. People come here to examine ideas not listen to you rant on claiming something is bullshit because it does not fit in with your very limited perceptions and knowledge. Now once again please stick to the thread attention which is the topic.
𝕲𝖊𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖒𝖊 𝕾𝖙𝖆𝖆𝖙𝖘𝖕𝖔𝖑𝖎𝖟𝖊𝖎 𝖋𝖚̈𝖗 𝖉𝖊𝖓 𝕾𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗𝖍𝖊𝖎𝖙𝖘𝖉𝖎𝖊𝖓𝖘𝖙

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Re: Katyn

Post by Goody67 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:27 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:23 pm
It is noticed that you have nothing constructive to say at all. Please follow the thread intention and discuss this as Friedrich intended which is to examine the US complicity in all of this. If you cannot do this then it would be best if you do not comment. People come here to examine ideas not listen to you rant on claiming something is bullshit because it does not fit in with your very limited perceptions and knowledge. Now once again please stick to the thread attention which is the topic.
How is posting utter BS the same as examining an idea? You can't even provide evidence for the claim you made. :? You seem to be prone to making unfounded claims. :?

The irony of you attempting to insult my intelligence. You are one of the most uneducated deniers I have come across in a while.
Deniers are a few bricks short of a load.

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Re: Katyn

Post by VFX » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:32 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:27 pm

The irony of you attempting to insult my intelligence. You are one of the most uneducated deniers I have come across in a while.
It seems he was saying there was little intelligence there to insult... just sayin. Been There also hinted at this as well as Werd.
This may be so but I could not possibly comment.
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