What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

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Nessie
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:42 am

Huntinger wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:15 am
This was qualified by saying they would have been in Poland most likely. Once the Soviets arrived everyone was sucked in by that giant red vacuum cleaner. This is not just a plausible explanation, it is the explanation. Your murder hypothesis is stupid.
In early 1943 Hermann Hofle, who was one of the leaders responsible for AR sent a telegram that was intercepted and decoded by the British.

Image

It records arrivals at the AR camps up to 31 Dec 1942 of;
Majdanek 24,733
Belzec 434,508
Sobibor 101,370
Treblinka 713,555
Total 1,274,166

That total was used by Korherr in his report on the The Final Solution of the European Jewish Problem produced in April 1943. At that time the Soviets were being fought well into Russia. The Soviets did not enter Poland until August 1944 and it was 1945 before the whole country was occupied.

So, 1943 is your problem, as there are c1.24 million Jews you think were resettled in Nazi occupied territory, waiting to be liberated by the Soviets. Where were they?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Henry
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Henry » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:39 am

Nessie wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:42 am
Huntinger wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:15 am
This was qualified by saying they would have been in Poland most likely. Once the Soviets arrived everyone was sucked in by that giant red vacuum cleaner. This is not just a plausible explanation, it is the explanation. Your murder hypothesis is stupid.
In early 1943 Hermann Hofle, who was one of the leaders responsible for AR sent a telegram that was intercepted and decoded by the British.

Image

It records arrivals at the AR camps up to 31 Dec 1942 of;
Majdanek 24,733
Belzec 434,508
Sobibor 101,370
Treblinka 713,555
Total 1,274,166

That total was used by Korherr in his report on the The Final Solution of the European Jewish Problem produced in April 1943. At that time the Soviets were being fought well into Russia. The Soviets did not enter Poland until August 1944 and it was 1945 before the whole country was occupied.

So, 1943 is your problem, as there are c1.24 million Jews you think were resettled in Nazi occupied territory, waiting to be liberated by the Soviets. Where were they?
Your common ground is found beyond just the numbers as both Hoffle and Korherr contain basic errors which belie the simple explanation of (an also) common incompetence amongst German officials. One strongly suspects the hidden hand, especially given those sourcing and handling said documents.

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Nessie
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:46 am

That does not answer the question. In 1943 where were those Jews accommodated?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by blake121666 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:56 am

Henry wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:39 am
Nessie wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:42 am
Huntinger wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:15 am
This was qualified by saying they would have been in Poland most likely. Once the Soviets arrived everyone was sucked in by that giant red vacuum cleaner. This is not just a plausible explanation, it is the explanation. Your murder hypothesis is stupid.
In early 1943 Hermann Hofle, who was one of the leaders responsible for AR sent a telegram that was intercepted and decoded by the British.

Image

It records arrivals at the AR camps up to 31 Dec 1942 of;
Majdanek 24,733
Belzec 434,508
Sobibor 101,370
Treblinka 713,555
Total 1,274,166

That total was used by Korherr in his report on the The Final Solution of the European Jewish Problem produced in April 1943. At that time the Soviets were being fought well into Russia. The Soviets did not enter Poland until August 1944 and it was 1945 before the whole country was occupied.

So, 1943 is your problem, as there are c1.24 million Jews you think were resettled in Nazi occupied territory, waiting to be liberated by the Soviets. Where were they?
Your common ground is found beyond just the numbers as both Hoffle and Korherr contain basic errors which belie the simple explanation of (an also) common incompetence amongst German officials. One strongly suspects the hidden hand, especially given those sourcing and handling said documents.
But Korherr never questioned the veracity of what is attributed to have been his report. So I don't see where the "hidden hand" is there. The numbers in that report could very well have been incompetently produced; but they had to have been incompetently produced by the Germans at that particular time. Whose hidden hand produced those numbers at that time?

The Hoefle telegram could, of course, be a fraud. I doubt the Korherr Report is though.

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Henry
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Henry » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:55 am

blake121666 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:56 am
Henry wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:39 am
Nessie wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:42 am
Huntinger wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:15 am
This was qualified by saying they would have been in Poland most likely. Once the Soviets arrived everyone was sucked in by that giant red vacuum cleaner. This is not just a plausible explanation, it is the explanation. Your murder hypothesis is stupid.
In early 1943 Hermann Hofle, who was one of the leaders responsible for AR sent a telegram that was intercepted and decoded by the British.

Image

It records arrivals at the AR camps up to 31 Dec 1942 of;
Majdanek 24,733
Belzec 434,508
Sobibor 101,370
Treblinka 713,555
Total 1,274,166

That total was used by Korherr in his report on the The Final Solution of the European Jewish Problem produced in April 1943. At that time the Soviets were being fought well into Russia. The Soviets did not enter Poland until August 1944 and it was 1945 before the whole country was occupied.

So, 1943 is your problem, as there are c1.24 million Jews you think were resettled in Nazi occupied territory, waiting to be liberated by the Soviets. Where were they?
Your common ground is found beyond just the numbers as both Hoffle and Korherr contain basic errors which belie the simple explanation of (an also) common incompetence amongst German officials. One strongly suspects the hidden hand, especially given those sourcing and handling said documents.
But Korherr never questioned the veracity of what is attributed to have been his report. So I don't see where the "hidden hand" is there. The numbers in that report could very well have been incompetently produced; but they had to have been incompetently produced by the Germans at that particular time. Whose hidden hand produced those numbers at that time?

The Hoefle telegram could, of course, be a fraud. I doubt the Korherr Report is though.
I didn't say that Korherr questioned or doubted the numbers. But there are "basic errors" in one of his reports regarding dates that an official of his standing and education could not have made; nor would these error(s) have gone unnoticed by other parties to the reports. There are also serious question marks about dates/authorship/context/chronology surrounding the documents that commissioned the reports and subsequent changes to them.

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by rollo the ganger » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:37 am

Henry wrote:I didn't say that Korherr questioned or doubted the numbers.
Korherr stated in his preface to the report that any and all figures regarding the Jews had to be taken with great reservation:
Korherr Report wrote:I. Preface

The numerical recording of Jewry and its development are necessary for setting up a statistic representation of the results on the way to the solution of the Jewish problem. The contradictions in Jewish figures make preliminary remarks necessary to the effect that the numerical data of Jewry are always to be accepted only with reservations and that lack of knowledge about the origin and source of these data can lead to false conclusions...
Henry wrote: But there are "basic errors" in one of his reports regarding dates that an official of his standing and education could not have made; nor would these error(s) have gone unnoticed by other parties to the reports.
Not that I doubt you but for brevity's sake could you point out those "basic errors"? That would help put us on the same page much quicker. Thanks.

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Nessie
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:54 am

Wrong thread. There are plenty of places to discuss Korherr etc. What neither evidence is where were the Jews who had been transported to the AR camp by the end of 1942?

I only introduced them to the topic to show Huntinger he is missing about 18 months where the Nazis had transported Jews to the AR camps and before they could have been liberated by the Soviets.

The topic here is where were they during that time?

The answer, which deniers dodge by repeatedly going off topic, is that there is no evidence they were resettled elsewhere. So that is c1.24 million people deniers claim were alive, but cannot find.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Huntinger » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:03 pm

Nessie wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:42 am
That total was used by Korherr in his report on the The Final Solution of the European Jewish Problem produced in April 1943.
Henry in response wrote this:
Henry wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:39 am
Your common ground is found beyond just the numbers as both Hoffle and Korherr contain basic errors which belie the simple explanation of (an also) common incompetence amongst German officials.
Then the Kelpie replies and says this:
Nessie wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:54 am
Wrong thread. There are plenty of places to discuss Korherr etc.
I only introduced them to the topic to show Huntinger he is missing about 18 months where the Nazis had transported Jews to the AR camps and before they could have been liberated by the Soviets.
To me this tactic is not acceptable. It brings up the Korherr reports inviting discussion. When discussed well, it decided to suddenly divert the topic away after wasting a thread page.
You have been told that there were not vast amounts of Jews arriving at the Einsatz camps, these were stops like any train station to let off the sick and elderly. In the Sobibor reports the trains moved on full of people. Höfle Telegram was probably a statistical census type figure perhaps a response from a Statistician to determine who was where and when at a small sequence of time, to determine the Jew flow out of the Reich. It is made clear that this information was used by a Statistician for the purposes of statistical predictions but with a caution. These camps were possibly the best points to collect such data rather than the turmoil of the beginning and end points as this showed the Jewish flow rate towards work centres. If I wanted to know data this is how I would do it, in places which are more controlled. People might need to disembark, shower, refresh, get counted, the sick go to hospitals in the camp, some local labour, the rest move on as all of those Dutch witnesses did.
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Nessie
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:22 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:03 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:42 am
That total was used by Korherr in his report on the The Final Solution of the European Jewish Problem produced in April 1943.
Henry in response wrote this:
Henry wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:39 am
Your common ground is found beyond just the numbers as both Hoffle and Korherr contain basic errors which belie the simple explanation of (an also) common incompetence amongst German officials.
Then the Kelpie replies and says this:
Nessie wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:54 am
Wrong thread. There are plenty of places to discuss Korherr etc.
I only introduced them to the topic to show Huntinger he is missing about 18 months where the Nazis had transported Jews to the AR camps and before they could have been liberated by the Soviets.
To me this tactic is not acceptable. It brings up the Korherr reports inviting discussion. When discussed well, it decided to suddenly divert the topic away after wasting a thread page.
The diversion is yours, as you ignore my point about the 18 month gap when those people were, according to you not gassed and they remained in Nazi custody before the Soviets arrived.
You have been told that there were not vast amounts of Jews arriving at the Einsatz camps,
I have evidenced there were.
these were stops like any train station to let off the sick and elderly.
And everyone else, with only those selected to work moving on.
In the Sobibor reports the trains moved on full of people.
Do show what report you are referring to.
Höfle Telegram was probably a statistical census type figure perhaps a response from a Statistician to determine who was where and when at a small sequence of time, to determine the Jew flow out of the Reich. It is made clear that this information was used by a Statistician for the purposes of statistical predictions but with a caution.
Hofle worked as part of AR and was reporting the numbers given to him for each camp back to HQ. The transmission of the information was intercepted.
These camps were possibly the best points to collect such data rather than the turmoil of the beginning and end points as this showed the Jewish flow rate towards work centres. If I wanted to know data this is how I would do it, in places which are more controlled. People might need to disembark, shower, refresh, get counted, the sick go to hospitals in the camp, some local labour, the rest move on as all of those Dutch witnesses did.
How did they all manage to move on without leaving any evidence of that happening? Why did not Nazi mention at his trial they all left?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Huntinger » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:27 pm

You have insufficient evidence to support your idea that people stayed anywhere, except for a sleepover, which is normal on long journeys. Showers refreshments, sleep and so on. The testimonies have been shown 4 times before by myself and others with no intention of repeating them. To keep on asking is time wasting and deliberate. As there was only one telegram that is all he was required to do, a single census figure or set of figures for the recipient to pass on to the statisticians.
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