Ron Unz recent Revisionism

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blake121666
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Ron Unz recent Revisionism

Post by blake121666 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:46 pm

The Unz Review has been putting up alot of Revisionist things lately.

Here is a list of the latest articles Ron Unz himself has written lately:

http://www.unz.com/author/ron-unz/

In particular, his latest is American Pravda: Holocaust Denial

Another writer on that site, who is a Russian nationalist, Anatoly Karlin, has given his opinion about Unz' latest article - bringing up the Jewish population aspect:

Holocaust Exegesis

With a reply to one of Unz' comments to that being another article:

The Holocaust in the USSR

There's an interesting discussion between Ron Unz and Kevin Barrett about this issue at:

http://grizzom.blogspot.com/2018/08/tru ... tt_30.html

Unz brings up the fact of how little the Holocaust stories were believed by Americans during WWII. And for quite awhile afterwards. He brings up a number of very very old Revisionist positions that aren't very good ones. Such as the claimed Auschwitz 4 million death toll - which was never accepted by Western historians - and conflating that with having something to do with the 6 million number. And he thinks persons now, or ever, officially think that the Dachau gas chamber was built by the Americans. BRoI has pretty much proven that the Americans could not have built that gas chamber. I think I side with Provan's opinion on that nowadays: it was a goofball project of the goofball person (whose name escapes me right now) for legal executions at the camp. But it wasn't used much - if at all.

Andrew Mathis has written about this recent activity of Unz at:
Unz, Roberts, and Irving

Mathis & Roberto themselves have in the past discussed Holocaust Revisionism with Kevin Barrett - as mentioned in the beginning of that Unz interview.

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Re: Ron Unz recent Revisionism

Post by Daniel » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:03 pm

I posted on Ron Unz at Codoh on this topic: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11968

It would be unfortunate if Jews, such as Unz, ever get to make holohoax revisionism respectable. One hopes that mass knowledge of such a Jewish fraud would destroy Jewish power. But if Jews get control of the narrative then they'll continue to play the "goyim" like a fiddle.

I have no use for Jews, including Gilad Atzmon, Israel Shamir, Steve Sailer (who doesn't like to advertise his Jewishness), Ron Unz, Paul Gottfried.

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Re: Ron Unz recent Revisionism

Post by blake121666 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:17 pm

Daniel wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:03 pm
I posted on Ron Unz at Codoh on this topic: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11968

It would be unfortunate if Jews, such as Unz, ever get to make holohoax revisionism respectable. One hopes that mass knowledge of such a Jewish fraud would destroy Jewish power. But if Jews get control of the narrative then they'll continue to play the "goyim" like a fiddle.

I have no use for Jews, including Gilad Atzmon, Israel Shamir, Steve Sailer (who doesn't like to advertise his Jewishness), Ron Unz, Paul Gottfried.
I'm paranoid about such things as well and consequently usually do the same as you - since about 2011 or so. Thanks for the Steve Sailer link. I was unaware of any Jewish ancestry with him. I actually didn't read these Ron Unz articles. From scanning through these articles, it looks like the quite old arguments which I've seen before and don't consider them particularly good arguments nowadays. But I'm probably glossing over the good arguments and remembering the bad ones when doing this.

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Re: Ron Unz recent Revisionism

Post by torus9 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:30 am

"There are worse, more dangerous endeavours. Ride a tiger, steal cubs from she-bear, walk a high voltage wire. Doubting the Holocaust is slightly less perilous. The doubters found themselves invariably out of job, oftentimes in jail, rarely killed. This is the dogma-Mother-of-all-dogmas, and Jews, the priesthood of New World, are attending to its pristine inviolability."

http://www.unz.com/ishamir/kamikaze-from-california/

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Re: Ron Unz recent Revisionism

Post by blake121666 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:53 pm

David Cole gives a drunken ad hominem infused rant about Unz here:

http://takimag.com/article/holocaust-de ... z5QpMs6FI3
http://www.countercontempt.com/archives/5908

Cole speaks about the Korherr Report clear as mud. His use of quote marks around words that aren't in the KR (such as "todesfallen") is a usage I'm not familiar with. What does Cole mean by quoting words that are not in the KR? The report is read as having section V's "evacuations" mean "slaughters"; but Cole's confusing reference to the KR (calling it a "census" :roll: ) is dick-headed - particularly coupled with his wackadoo ad hominems.

As stated above, people should be very wary of Jews trying to co-opt Revisionism. Cole and Unz are Jews and could very well be taking the piss. They both quite suck in their Revisionism.

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Re: Ron Unz recent Revisionism

Post by torus9 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:25 am

blake121666 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:53 pm
David Cole gives a drunken ad hominem infused rant
"...incredible as it may seem, an order to send millions of people to their deaths may have been no more than a nod from Hitler to one of his lieutenants."

The Holocaust in History, p.46 citing Browning, Zum Genesis der Endlosung 105.Cf. Walter WuttkeGronenberg, Volk und Gesundheit: Heilen und Vernichten in Nationlsozialismus (Tubingen, 1982)


"Authority in the Third Reich flowed not from laws and orders, issued by carefully delimited agencies, but rather from expressions of Hitler's will. Channels of government were frequently circumvented in favor of proclamations that such or so was the Fuhrer's wish 'What he actually meant, or whether he really meant it, might have been a matter of tone as well as language. When he spoke 'coldly' and in a 'low voice' about 'horrifying' decisions 'also at the dinner table,' then his audience knew that he was serious.' From one to another, Nazi leaders transmitted the latest impulse."
- The Holocaust in History p.4, citing Hilberg, Destruction of The European Jews

I'll now quote David Cole from your provided links. Are we to assume that Hitler gave the nod?

"On March 27, 1942, Goebbels dictates a lengthy passage about another SS document that had been submitted to him, and which appears to have been much uglier in its content. “Beginning with Lublin,” he states, “the Jews are now being deported eastward from the General Government [occupied Poland]. The procedure is pretty barbaric and one that beggars description, and there’s not much left of the Jews."

"Himmler commissioned a census to lay out, by the beginning of 1943, how many Jews were still living, how many had emigrated before the war, how many were in camps and ghettos, and how many had been “dispatched” in 1942 via “special treatment” in the camps in the East (Treblinka et al). This figure also included the number of “todesfällen” Jews killed by the Einsatzgruppen in ’41. Altogether, this figure of “dispatched” Jews came to 2.4 million by April 1943."

Can you tell me more about this census? "todesfallen"?
Cole is hitting pretty hard in his response to Unz. BUT...he never blames the German citizens. And why would he?

"After a careful reexamination of autobiographical statements made by 581 early Nazis and originally collected by the sociologist Theodore Abel,
Peter Merkl was struck by "how little the Nazi movement was motivated by shared, constructive goals of any kind - even antisemitic ones. 1/3 of the sample showed no evidence of prejudice, and nearly half seemed uninterested in Jews."
- ibid. p.12, citing Peter Merkl, Political Violence under the Swastika: 581 early Nazis (Princeton NJ. 1975) 498-527

"In Behemoth, a masterful study of the Third reich first published in 1944, the German emigre' Franz Neumann contended that "spontaneous, popular anti-semitism was still weak in Germany", and that "the German people are the least anti-semitic of all," Neumann noted the abscence of spontaneous attacks on Jews by the German public - in marked contrast to other countries- and suggested that this was all the more remarkable because of the intensity of the vicious anti-Jewish propaganda beamed at the German public during the Nazi years."
- ibid. p.87, citing Franz Neumann, Behemoth: The Structure and Practice of National Socialism, 1933 - 1944 , rev. ed (New York 1944) p. 121
Please take note: REVISED EDITION. :mrgreen:

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Re: Ron Unz recent Revisionism

Post by torus9 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:59 am

We need to talk about those disturbingly normal Germans.

"The British historian Ian Kershaw has undertaken one of the few investigations of such issues in his study of Bavarian opinion from 1933-1945."
- The Holocaust in History p.89 citing Ian Kershaw, Popular Opinion and Political Dissent in the Third Reich: Bavaria, 1933-1945 (Oxford,1983), viii, which draws upon idem, "Antisemitismus und Volksmeinung: Reaktion auf die Judenverfolgung," in Martin Broszat et al., Bayern in der NS-Zeit (Munich, 1979), II, 281-300. See also idem, Der Hitler: Mythos: Volksmeinung und Propaganda im Dritten Reich (Stuttgart, 1980); and idem, "The Persecution of the Jews and German Popular Opinion in the Third Reich," Leo Baeck Institute Year Book 26 (1981), 261-89.

His quarry is the ordinary Germans behind the scenes - "the muddled majority, neither full-hearted Nazis nor outright opponents, whose attitudes at one and the same time betray signs of Nazi ideological penetration and yet show the clear limits of propaganda manipulation." Kershaw limits his description to the largely Catholic province of Bavaria, the cradle of Nazism and for many years the base of the movement. His conclusions are qualified, but suggest nevertheless that the ideological conformity to which Propaganda Minister Goebbels aspired was never realized. Germans remained divided by Nazism and never gave themselves entirely to the regime. At the same time, they were seldom preoccupied with public affairs or the deeper issues posed by a criminal society. Kershaw's Germans, indeed, will appear to many disturbingly normal." (emphasis mine)

- ibid, p.89-90

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Re: Ron Unz recent Revisionism

Post by blake121666 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:07 am

torus9 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:25 am

"Himmler commissioned a census to lay out, by the beginning of 1943, how many Jews were still living, how many had emigrated before the war, how many were in camps and ghettos, and how many had been “dispatched” in 1942 via “special treatment” in the camps in the East (Treblinka et al). This figure also included the number of “todesfällen” Jews killed by the Einsatzgruppen in ’41. Altogether, this figure of “dispatched” Jews came to 2.4 million by April 1943."

Can you tell me more about this census? "todesfallen"?
We've discussed the Korherr Report alot on this board. I don't know why Cole is referring to it as a "census". It mentions todesfällen (dead) Jews at the very end when saying:
KR wrote:Moreover, it was not possible to count all the deaths of the Soviet – Russian Jews in the occupied Eastern Territories
And this is interpreted as referencing section V.6 of the KR:
KR, V.6 wrote:In addition there are the figures of the Main Reich Security Office for the evacuation of the Jews from the Russian territories including the formerly Baltic countries since the beginning of the Eastern campaign: 633,300
Cole appears to be interpreting this as Einsatzgruppen killing of Jews in only '41. I've always figured it to have been interpreted as all EG killings of Jews up to January '43.

I'm not sure where the "dispatched" he is referring to is in the report.

The "special treatment" is of course only in the extant report for the section V ("evacuations") subtotal:
KR, V subtotal wrote:Total evacuation (including Theresienstadt and special treatment): 1,873,549
2.4 million is not explicitly anywhere in the report. The report claims there were about 10.3 million Jews in Europe in 1937 and that 1/4 had emigrated out of Europe by 1943 and, a little confusingly, the rest of 1/2 the 1933 Jewish European population can be assumed to have died.

Section V ("evacuations") totals to: 1,873,549 + 633,300 = 2,506,849. Without Theresienstadt it totals to: 1,786,356 + 633,300 = 2,419,656.

So about 2.4 million "evacuations" without Theresienstadt.

Section V.4 was not written by Korherr. It was given to him exactly as written and he claimed to have not known what it referred to. He claimed that he asked about it and was told it had something to do with resettlement in Lublin.

The report curiously has it in section VII that only a mere 9,127 Jews were in all concentration camps on 12/31/42 - 80% of those being in Lublin (and only 15% in Auschwitz).

It seemingly refers to the killing centers in Birkenau and Majdanek in section VII as "the evacuation stations of Auschwitz and Lublin".

EDIT: The originals of the KR reports (long and short) can be found here:

https://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/korherr/

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