Did Fred Leuchter actually write this:--

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Re: Did Fred Leuchter actually write this:--

Post by NSDAP » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:04 pm

Frankie wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:49 pm
NSDAP said:
Zb causes a slow controlled release of HCN. Zb it is not pure HCN added to the Kieselguhr or plaster of paris but a dilute solution in water approx
"Slow". Therefore if would have required massive amounts to allegedly gas 2000 Jews in mere minutes, in a large room.

The Germans would never have done such an absurd thing, especially since they had plenty of the more efficient & deadly sarin & tabun readily available, IF they wanted to 'gas millions'.

You just debunked yourself. :lol:
No one here is claiming that people were gassed in that manner we are just thinking your views are absurd as to the concentrations needed. If gassing did occur in the Leichenkeller as claimed the huge volume would take much more than 4 cans of Zb and also specialized machinery. This machinery was available and indeed was used in railroad de lousing facilities. The fact is lethality is far less than the explosive percentage. However, even with a small risk I doubt if the Germans would have used the mortuary with any explosive gas in it so close to any flame. Think of a room full of hydrogen gas and fires nearby. I doubt if any SS man would be smoking nearby: the thought would make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. I agree, adding ricin to the water supply would have done it, no need for this gassing farce. If we were to do it, we would use captive bolt pistols as they did in their meat industry at the time killing many more cattle than alleged Juden.
Wenn wir die Flagge, die wir aus dem Nichts gerissen haben, nicht halten können, müssen Sie, meine Söhne und Töchter, greifendie Fahne in deiner Faust...Führer der NSDAP Adolf Hitler
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Re: Did Fred Leuchter actually write this:--

Post by blake121666 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:33 pm

NSDAP wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:04 pm
Frankie wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:49 pm
NSDAP said:
Zb causes a slow controlled release of HCN. Zb it is not pure HCN added to the Kieselguhr or plaster of paris but a dilute solution in water approx
"Slow". Therefore if would have required massive amounts to allegedly gas 2000 Jews in mere minutes, in a large room.

The Germans would never have done such an absurd thing, especially since they had plenty of the more efficient & deadly sarin & tabun readily available, IF they wanted to 'gas millions'.

You just debunked yourself. :lol:
No one here is claiming that people were gassed in that manner we are just thinking your views are absurd as to the concentrations needed. If gassing did occur in the Leichenkeller as claimed the huge volume would take much more than 4 cans of Zb and also specialized machinery. This machinery was available and indeed was used in railroad de lousing facilities. The fact is lethality is far less than the explosive percentage. However, even with a small risk I doubt if the Germans would have used the mortuary with any explosive gas in it so close to any flame. Think of a room full of hydrogen gas and fires nearby. I doubt if any SS man would be smoking nearby: the thought would make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. I agree, adding ricin to the water supply would have done it, no need for this gassing farce. If we were to do it, we would use captive bolt pistols as they did in their meat industry at the time killing many more cattle than alleged Juden.
Fumigations with Zyklon around open flames were not thought explosively dangerous. The amount of HCN within explosion limits is practically non-existent with Zyklon. The only concern is that an open flame makes the toxicity less potent. Hence the procedure to "burn" hydrocyanic acid spills.

The Holocaustian claim is that the natural dispersion of the HCN evaporated off the substrates of a dosage - on the order of a fumigation dosage (perhaps a tad less) - was enough to kill persons in a suitable timeframe. Such is debatable but that's what's claimed. One can assume that they assume a quick evaporation rate (from a warm room) and a longer timeframe than generally stated. That those near the Zyklon would die within minutes is undeniable. There have been exceedingly few reliable witnesses to these gassing allegations.

Individually killing persons with bolt pistols is absurd to an extreme. That you keep bringing up this ridiculous method is absurd to an extreme. It's not even worth discussing.
Last edited by blake121666 on Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Did Fred Leuchter actually write this:--

Post by NSDAP » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:38 pm

blake121666 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:33 pm
Individually killing persons with bolt pistols is absurd to an extreme. That you keep bringing up this ridiculous method is absurd to an extreme. It's not even worth discussing.
It was used for mass slaughter of cattle and cheap to implement. It wasn't used on people and yes only hypothetical.
Wenn wir die Flagge, die wir aus dem Nichts gerissen haben, nicht halten können, müssen Sie, meine Söhne und Töchter, greifendie Fahne in deiner Faust...Führer der NSDAP Adolf Hitler
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Re: Did Fred Leuchter actually write this:--

Post by Frankie » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:39 pm

NSDAP wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:04 pm
Frankie wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:49 pm
NSDAP said:
Zb causes a slow controlled release of HCN. Zb it is not pure HCN added to the Kieselguhr or plaster of paris but a dilute solution in water approx
"Slow". Therefore if would have required massive amounts to allegedly gas 2000 Jews in mere minutes, in a large room.

The Germans would never have done such an absurd thing, especially since they had plenty of the more efficient & deadly sarin & tabun readily available, IF they wanted to 'gas millions'.

You just debunked yourself. :lol:
No one here is claiming that people were gassed in that manner we are just thinking your views are absurd as to the concentrations needed. If gassing did occur in the Leichenkeller as claimed the huge volume would take much more than 4 cans of Zb and also specialized machinery. This machinery was available and indeed was used in railroad de lousing facilities. The fact is lethality is far less than the explosive percentage. However, even with a small risk I doubt if the Germans would have used the mortuary with any explosive gas in it so close to any flame. Think of a room full of hydrogen gas and fires nearby. I doubt if any SS man would be smoking nearby: the thought would make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. I agree, adding ricin to the water supply would have done it, no need for this gassing farce. If we were to do it, we would use captive bolt pistols as they did in their meat industry at the time killing many more cattle than alleged Juden.
See The Rudolf Report for amounts estimated.
http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html

You continue to talk about the amount for one person in a lab, not 2000 people in a large underground room, using slowly emitting HCN .... hence, as Rudolf proves, the required amounts would have been huge and extremely dangerous, IF the Germans had wanted to do such a hing.

The argument with Berg & Faurisson is whether the alleged gas chambers & the alleged HCN would have been used as alleged by the Germans.
Faurisson cares nothing about the dumb train story that Berg laughably conjured up.

Off topic, but see Berg's truly absurd train nonsense debunked:
'The SANITY Test!'
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5864

Berg is out of his league and is arguing emotionally, not rationally. Don't be another Berg.

Cheers.

these do not lie:

Image

and:
Countless accidental explosions caused by HCN:

https://www.google.com/search?ei=XR6gWv ... uMe_ily8bE

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Re: Did Fred Leuchter actually write this:--

Post by NSDAP » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:54 pm

Frankie wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:39 pm
You continue to talk about the amount for one person in a lab, not 2000 people in a large underground room, using slowly emitting HCN .... hence, as Rudolf proves, the required amounts would have been huge and extremely dangerous, IF the Germans had wanted to do such a hing.
The 300 ppm is the same toxicity for most people. If I say need one can of Zb to reach the toxicity level of 300 ppm and this room is 5m x 5m or 25m2. The toxicity level is the same for one person in the room or 20 people. If the room area was increased to 10m x 10m the floor area is 100m2 (assuming ceiling height stays the same) which is 4 times the area. What would have taken one can to produce 300 ppm in the smaller room would now take 4 cans in the larger room. If just one can in the larger room was used then the concentration would drop to 75 ppm which might prove fatal but hardly likely. You are suggesting to have an explosive concentration to use 200 cans in the first room and 800 cans in the larger room. Zb cans were typically 200gram, so you are suggesting for the small room to use 40kg for the small room and 160kg of powder for the second larger room. This is absurd.
As the rooms get larger you would use just proportionally more to get the same concentration as the smaller room.
Wenn wir die Flagge, die wir aus dem Nichts gerissen haben, nicht halten können, müssen Sie, meine Söhne und Töchter, greifendie Fahne in deiner Faust...Führer der NSDAP Adolf Hitler
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Re: Did Fred Leuchter actually write this:--

Post by blake121666 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:01 am

So what is your opinion on Berg's kreislauf graph, NSDAP?

Image

The left and right graphs are respectively delousing in a Degesch chamber with and without re-circulation. The chamber was:

length = 4.00 m
width = 1.35 m
height = 1.90 m

And so the volume was 10.26 m^3

Below is a picture of a delousing rack (upper left of right page):
Image

The Zyklon dosage was one 100 g can of Zyklon and the room was filled with things to delouse.

The bold line in the graph is the concentration of the center of the chamber. And I think the other 4 lines are the concentration at each of the 4 corners of the room. As you can see all lines achieve their maximums in roughly the same time on the left. But the maximums are wildly separated on the right.

How quickly did the 100 g can of Zyklon outgas on the left? And how quickly did it outgas on the right? Notice how the center of the room on the right barely gets any gas for quite awhile. The corners see more gas than the center until about 2-1/2 hours into this!

Why does it take so very long for the gas to reach parts of this very very small room in the right graph? Surely HCN disperses quicker than that? What is holding it up?
Last edited by blake121666 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Did Fred Leuchter actually write this:--

Post by Frankie » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:09 am

NSDAP wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:54 pm
Frankie wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:39 pm
You continue to talk about the amount for one person in a lab, not 2000 people in a large underground room, using slowly emitting HCN .... hence, as Rudolf proves, the required amounts would have been huge and extremely dangerous, IF the Germans had wanted to do such a hing.
The 300 ppm is the same toxicity for most people. If I say need one can of Zb to reach the toxicity level of 300 ppm and this room is 5m x 5m or 25m2. The toxicity level is the same for one person in the room or 20 people. If the room area was increased to 10m x 10m the floor area is 100m2 (assuming ceiling height stays the same) which is 4 times the area. What would have taken one can to produce 300 ppm in the smaller room would now take 4 cans in the larger room. If just one can in the larger room was used then the concentration would drop to 75 ppm which might prove fatal but hardly likely. You are suggesting to have an explosive concentration to use 200 cans in the first room and 800 cans in the larger room. Zb cans were typically 200gram, so you are suggesting for the small room to use 40kg for the small room and 160kg of powder for the second larger room. This is absurd.
As the rooms get larger you would use just proportionally more to get the same concentration as the smaller room.
You forget too much.
This supposedly all had to happen in just minutes in a very big room.
Concentrations would have necessarily soared, the German would have needed to flood the large room with HCN, hence the explosion danger.
You're naval gazing and not thinking big picture.

Nonetheless these prove my point:

Image

seemingly endless accidental HCN explosions:

https://www.google.com/search?ei=XR6gWv ... uMe_ily8bE

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Re: Did Fred Leuchter actually write this:--

Post by blake121666 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:15 am

Frankie wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:09 am
NSDAP wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:54 pm
Frankie wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:39 pm
You continue to talk about the amount for one person in a lab, not 2000 people in a large underground room, using slowly emitting HCN .... hence, as Rudolf proves, the required amounts would have been huge and extremely dangerous, IF the Germans had wanted to do such a hing.
The 300 ppm is the same toxicity for most people. If I say need one can of Zb to reach the toxicity level of 300 ppm and this room is 5m x 5m or 25m2. The toxicity level is the same for one person in the room or 20 people. If the room area was increased to 10m x 10m the floor area is 100m2 (assuming ceiling height stays the same) which is 4 times the area. What would have taken one can to produce 300 ppm in the smaller room would now take 4 cans in the larger room. If just one can in the larger room was used then the concentration would drop to 75 ppm which might prove fatal but hardly likely. You are suggesting to have an explosive concentration to use 200 cans in the first room and 800 cans in the larger room. Zb cans were typically 200gram, so you are suggesting for the small room to use 40kg for the small room and 160kg of powder for the second larger room. This is absurd.
As the rooms get larger you would use just proportionally more to get the same concentration as the smaller room.
You forget too much.
This supposedly all had to happen in just minutes in a very big room.
Concentrations would have necessarily soared, the German would have needed to flood the large room with HCN, hence the explosion danger.
You're naval gazing and not thinking big picture.

Nonetheless these prove my point:

Image

seemingly endless accidental HCN explosions:

https://www.google.com/search?ei=XR6gWv ... uMe_ily8bE
And I need a larger engine space to accomodate more horses if I want more horsepower. Quit posting, Frankie. If you find that you have nothing new to add, don't repeat yourself. I think everyone has heard enough from you. You are claiming that the alleged gassings would have required a dosage on the order of a ton of cyanide and if that were done, those alleged gassings might risk explosion. We got it. Stop repeating yourself.

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Re: Did Fred Leuchter actually write this:--

Post by Frankie » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:19 am

Nice images, but so what? Utterly irrelevant.
blake121666 wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:01 am
Why does it take so very long for the gas to reach parts of this very very small room in the right graph? Surely HCN disperses quicker than that? What is holding it up?
So you have admitted that Z-B disperses slowly.
And the shown delousing spaces are quite small compared to the alleged very large 'gas chambers'.
Hence, to actually gas 2000 people with a slow acting agent in the alleged 'mere minutes' time span would have required huge amounts.
Thereby creating a very hazardous situation.

These prove the hazards I'm referring to:

Image

seemingly endless accidental HCN explosions:

https://www.google.com/search?ei=XR6gWv ... uMe_ily8bE

To repeat:
Germar Rudolf says @ 33:40 in the video:
"You would need extreme amounts of Hydrogen Cyanide to kill all the people, and then you get into the area where you have the danger of explosion"

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Re: Did Fred Leuchter actually write this:--

Post by NSDAP » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:29 am

The grams per cubic metre is exactly the same as ppm. With the Kreislauf circulation the chamber had a concentration of 9 ppm in about 40 min. This dropped to an average of about 6 ppm for over three hours. This is well below the fatal toxicity level for humans but fatal for lice over an extended period of time. To get to a lethal toxicity for humans would take 16.6 200g (3.3kg) Zb cans for that chamber. To get to explosive proportions on that data would take 3,320 200g cans of Zb or 664 kg. Using this data on the Leichenkeller 2 902.7m3 with 2000 people. The volume of a person is 0.0711m3, so that morgue packed with 2000 people would leave a space of 902,7-142.2= 760.5m3. This is 74.1 times the volume of the gas chamber in the Krieslauf data. In this instance to get to the lethal toxicity of 300ppm would take 1230.06 200g Zb cans (246 kg). To get to the explosive proportions would take 246012 cans (49.2 tonne). This is a lot of work by the SS guards.The victims would be more likely to die from smothering than gassing. :)
With the second graph there is a slow rise over 3 hours to get to level of a little under 5 parts per million and highly inefficient.
Wenn wir die Flagge, die wir aus dem Nichts gerissen haben, nicht halten können, müssen Sie, meine Söhne und Töchter, greifendie Fahne in deiner Faust...Führer der NSDAP Adolf Hitler
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