Denier reliance on fallacies.

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Nessie
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Re: Denier reliance on fallacies.

Post by Nessie » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:03 am

Werd wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:59 pm
We have reached an agreement that ovens evidence ovens.
Which leaves no grounds for thinking Tauber's wild claims are correct.
It leaves ground to believe that his claims are exaggerated and the numbers too high and the times too short. It does not mean that he lied about the whole thing and that no one was gassed or cremated inside the kremas.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Denier reliance on fallacies.

Post by Huntinger » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:07 am

Nessie wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:03 am
It leaves ground to believe that his claims are exaggerated and the numbers too high and the times too short. It does not mean that he lied about the whole thing and that no one was gassed or cremated inside the kremas.
Now this may be correct, you are now discussing the topic. Now Scott has offered you an Olive branch. I suggest you take it so you can contribute to real discussions without this excrement. However, I also think this will be your last chance. Think carefully. Personally I think you should stay down here discussing shit with Werd as it means fuck all. You have shown only stupid arrogance and little remorse so far, but that is your call.
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Re: Denier reliance on fallacies.

Post by Werd » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:40 am

I do not believe in ANY gassings and I do not accept your excuse of "well they lied about a and b and c and d, but they definitely told the truth about e." :lol:

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Re: Denier reliance on fallacies.

Post by Nessie » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:12 am

Now you have accepted ovens etc do not evidence those people left the camp, we need to concentrate fully on what happened to those not selected to work.

We know from evidence what happened to the group selected to work and registered at Auschwitz.

Then there was the group Mattogno has as not registered at Auschwitz and sent elsewhere to work. Then there is the group sent to the kremas after selection.

Mattogno is vague about the the size of the second unregistered group, which appears to be a few thousand. He admits that last group is in the hundreds of thousands. It is that last group for whom evidence as to what happened to them runs out inside the kremas.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Denier reliance on fallacies.

Post by Huntinger » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:42 pm

Nessie wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:12 am
We know from evidence what happened to the group selected to work and registered at Auschwitz.
This is the whole point of contention. No one at Birkenau worked. Those who could like Pierre Berg from France were placed into one of the 40 odd subcamps of Birkenau. I think you should look at the real testimony of real survivors like Pierre or as mentioned by myself and others Sam Pivnik. Pivnik (Jude) was registered in the camp and tattooed with prisoner number 135913. After a period of approximately two weeks in the 'Quarantine' area of Birkenau, he was assigned to the Rampkommando where he worked unloading newly arrived trains after the prisoners had been taken away for entry to the camp. On 27 December 1943, Pivnik was admitted to the prisoner infirmary in the Quarantine area KL Auschwitz II-Birkenau, B IIa, Block 9, with suspected typhus. He says that he survived several 'selections' all of which meant extended hospital stay, and on 11 January 1944 was admitted to the main prisoners' hospital at KL-Auschwitz II-Birkenau B IIf. He admits the rumours of the time were that "selection" meant death, it was so rife that rumour became myth and myth became reality in the minds of the inmates. It is merely these anecdotes and hearsay you are referring to.
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Re: Denier reliance on fallacies.

Post by Werd » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:03 pm

Nessie wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:12 am
Then there is the group sent to the kremas after selection.
Are you talking about this again?
Werd wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:31 am
Matttogno then continues and finishes part 2 with this:
What was the fate of the Non-Employable Hungarian Jews?

At the present level of knowledge we cannot answer this question with certainty supported by documents. The revisionist criticism has proven, based on air-photos taken by US reconnaissance planes as well as the capacity of the crematoriums, that non-employable Jews were not at all »gassed after their arrival«. This is further confirmed by the pictures in the previously mentioned Album d’Auschwitz.

First several photos in this album show all chimneys of the crematoriums (Crematoriums II and III: photo 6 on p. 51, photo 7 on p. 53, photo 17 on p. 63; crematoriums IV and V: photo 99 on p. 131, photo 125 on p. 155), but from none of these exits smoke.[79]But if the non-employable Hungarian Jews were gassed, the crematoriums would have been in continuous operation day and night in the second half of May 1944 (the pictures in the Album d’Auschwitz were taken on May 26), and even then could they only have cremated a small part of the “gassed”.[80]

Secondly, the pictures show that the employable Jews left all their luggage back on benches, while on the other hand the non-employable could keep some luggage, consisting of knapsacks and bags. Especially clear on this are photos 6 on p. 51, photo 163 on p. 185 (where the non-employable, mostly children, even carried two large cooking pots), photo 165 on p. 187 as well as photo 169 on p. 191. Why were the non-employable sent into the “gas chambers” with bags, knapsacks and cooking pots? The photos show further that the non-employable rested in the orchard close to the fire water pond east of the crematorium IV. (the photo 174 on p. 194 shows in the foreground an old man who is about to climb down the slight bank of the fire pond in order to scoop up water into a metal container.) In none of the photos are people shown in the yards of the crematoriums II and III, although these were quite spacious. Especially important are in this connection the photos 152 and 153 on p. 176 and 177, which are shown in the wrong chronological sequence. The events shown on photo 153 actually preceded those on photo 152, because on the latter the group of people, which appears on the first one in front of the east wing of crematorium III, already passed the entrance gate to the yard of the crematorium, which can be seen on the right margin of the picture. And finally, the entrance gate is closed. It is therefore obvious that the non-employable went down the camp street, which led parallel to the railroad track passed the crematorium II and III, then turned right, through the “Zentralsauna” (central sauna) and the “Effektenlager” (storage for valuables), then continued past the west side of crematorium IV, then again to the right and finally entered the orchard at the fire pond.

If these non-employables were destined for “gassing”, why then was a large part of them not sent to the yards of the crematoriums II and III with the alleged gas chambers of much higher capacity and – actually - much more capable cremation ovens than in crematoriums IV and V? Is not the assumption much more logical that these people who kept their hand luggage, waited for the departure from Auschwitz?

The question to where these non-employables were sent is however much more difficult to answer. The case of the Hungarian Jews who were deported to Straßhof could give us an idea how they were housed. In the “Gau Niederdonau” (State of Lower Danube) the Jews were accommodated in 175 quarters, where also the non-employable stayed and which were called “family camps”.[81] And at least until June 22, 1944 was the military front in the north still east of the line Narva-Opocka-Vitebsk-Bobrujsk, and a considerable part of the eastern territories, infinitely much larger than the Gau Niederdonau, was still in German hands.
Here is part 3.
https://codoh.com/library/document/357/?page=3

Look at all those Jews from the photo album allegedly photographed on the way to their death and yet they aren't anywhere NEAR the yard of the crematoria with the alleged homicidal gas chambers in the below ground corpse cellars. :lol:

Mattogno is vague about the the size of the second unregistered group, which appears to be a few thousand. He admits that last group is in the hundreds of thousands. It is that last group for whom evidence as to what happened to them runs out inside the kremas.
Read the Crowell excerpt again.

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Re: Denier reliance on fallacies.

Post by Huntinger » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:07 pm

Werd wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:03 pm
Are you talking about this again?
Of course he is, to him it is a revelation he wishes to share with you. He has never told you this before (apart from a few thousand times). Surely you must realize by now he is spinning around and around. I gaurantee in a years time it will mention it again and then ask if they did not go to the gas, where did they go. Surely you have more to do than put up with this nonsense. In his mind one myth supports the others which results in circular thinking, resulting in the propeller driven attitude.
Read the Crowell excerpt again.
Don't be daft he is not interested in reality. I will wait and see which other mythical nonsense he has mentioned before to counteract you. Anyone studying Nessies arguments will understand how weak the hoaxers position really is and why it must fail.
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Re: Denier reliance on fallacies.

Post by Nessie » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:04 pm

Werd wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:03 pm
Nessie wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:12 am
Then there is the group sent to the kremas after selection.
Are you talking about this again?
Werd wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:31 am
Matttogno then continues and finishes part 2 with this:
What was the fate of the Non-Employable Hungarian Jews?

At the present level of knowledge we cannot answer this question with certainty supported by documents. The revisionist criticism has proven, based on air-photos taken by US reconnaissance planes as well as the capacity of the crematoriums, that non-employable Jews were not at all »gassed after their arrival«. This is further confirmed by the pictures in the previously mentioned Album d’Auschwitz.

First several photos in this album show all chimneys of the crematoriums (Crematoriums II and III: photo 6 on p. 51, photo 7 on p. 53, photo 17 on p. 63; crematoriums IV and V: photo 99 on p. 131, photo 125 on p. 155), but from none of these exits smoke.[79]But if the non-employable Hungarian Jews were gassed, the crematoriums would have been in continuous operation day and night in the second half of May 1944 (the pictures in the Album d’Auschwitz were taken on May 26), and even then could they only have cremated a small part of the “gassed”.[80]

Secondly, the pictures show that the employable Jews left all their luggage back on benches, while on the other hand the non-employable could keep some luggage, consisting of knapsacks and bags. Especially clear on this are photos 6 on p. 51, photo 163 on p. 185 (where the non-employable, mostly children, even carried two large cooking pots), photo 165 on p. 187 as well as photo 169 on p. 191. Why were the non-employable sent into the “gas chambers” with bags, knapsacks and cooking pots? The photos show further that the non-employable rested in the orchard close to the fire water pond east of the crematorium IV. (the photo 174 on p. 194 shows in the foreground an old man who is about to climb down the slight bank of the fire pond in order to scoop up water into a metal container.) In none of the photos are people shown in the yards of the crematoriums II and III, although these were quite spacious. Especially important are in this connection the photos 152 and 153 on p. 176 and 177, which are shown in the wrong chronological sequence. The events shown on photo 153 actually preceded those on photo 152, because on the latter the group of people, which appears on the first one in front of the east wing of crematorium III, already passed the entrance gate to the yard of the crematorium, which can be seen on the right margin of the picture. And finally, the entrance gate is closed. It is therefore obvious that the non-employable went down the camp street, which led parallel to the railroad track passed the crematorium II and III, then turned right, through the “Zentralsauna” (central sauna) and the “Effektenlager” (storage for valuables), then continued past the west side of crematorium IV, then again to the right and finally entered the orchard at the fire pond.

If these non-employables were destined for “gassing”, why then was a large part of them not sent to the yards of the crematoriums II and III with the alleged gas chambers of much higher capacity and – actually - much more capable cremation ovens than in crematoriums IV and V? Is not the assumption much more logical that these people who kept their hand luggage, waited for the departure from Auschwitz?

The question to where these non-employables were sent is however much more difficult to answer. The case of the Hungarian Jews who were deported to Straßhof could give us an idea how they were housed. In the “Gau Niederdonau” (State of Lower Danube) the Jews were accommodated in 175 quarters, where also the non-employable stayed and which were called “family camps”.[81] And at least until June 22, 1944 was the military front in the north still east of the line Narva-Opocka-Vitebsk-Bobrujsk, and a considerable part of the eastern territories, infinitely much larger than the Gau Niederdonau, was still in German hands.
Here is part 3.
https://codoh.com/library/document/357/?page=3

Look at all those Jews from the photo album allegedly photographed on the way to their death and yet they aren't anywhere NEAR the yard of the crematoria with the alleged homicidal gas chambers in the below ground corpse cellars. :lol:

Mattogno is vague about the the size of the second unregistered group, which appears to be a few thousand. He admits that last group is in the hundreds of thousands. It is that last group for whom evidence as to what happened to them runs out inside the kremas.
Read the Crowell excerpt again.
I am more interested in how many are in the "unregistered group". Mattogno is suitably vague, which is because he can only find a few thousand at most. Crowell gives no figures.

You are trying to create smoke to hide that there is no evidence as to what happened to the hundreds of thousands who were last seen at the kremas.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Denier reliance on fallacies.

Post by Huntinger » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:12 pm

Nessie wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:04 pm
You are trying to create smoke to hide that there is no evidence as to what happened to the hundreds of thousands who were last seen at the kremas.
There is no evidence they were last seen at the Kremas, that is in your mind. If this is so where is this evidence. You were asked or anyone was asked to provide evidence of masses of people near the Leichenkellers; the best you could do was to determine an aerial photo of a work detail heading towards the outer gate near Krema 5.
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Re: Denier reliance on fallacies.

Post by Werd » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:15 pm

the hundreds of thousands who were last seen at the kremas.
Are you sure about that?

Look at all those Jews from the photo album allegedly photographed on the way to their death and yet they aren't anywhere NEAR the yard of the crematoria with the alleged homicidal gas chambers in the below ground corpse cellars.

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