The false claim that the Poles massacred ethnic Germans before WW2

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Goody67
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Re: The false claim that the Poles massacred ethnic Germans before WW2

Post by Goody67 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:50 pm

Werd wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:31 pm
Goody is all over the place. Let's keep this simple.
I think you'll find that it is the deniers who are all over the place. They are making up claims that not even the Nazis claimed!
He just repeats it. he doesn't actually prove it. Remember he admitted he only skimmed those two books. He also admitted he can't read German. So I don't know why he thinks I should believe him.
I posted that I had skimmed through the books on 18 October last year. I have looked at both books thoroughly and found no citations of any pre-WW2 massacres. As I already mentioned, both of the books focus predominantly on the Bromberg massacre (Bromberger Blutsonntag).

Cite my post in which I said that I can't read German. :D
Yes I already established that your precious English translated white book is very abridged and missing many of the reports walendy cites. I already established your working with bunk, inferior sources. You don't have to keep reminding me. :lol:
You then also said this prior:
Individual incidents of murders and assaults are not the same as a massacre.

Read the following:

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t93964 ... st11037855
https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t93964 ... st11104860
So when attacks on the Germans are documented, something Goody previously denied, Goody then shifts the goal posts, handwaves it and plays word games.
The link I posted still has one of the citations that Walendy used and it is does not prove that the Poles were going to "annihilate" the Germans in Galicia.

More straw man bullshit from you. I have already admitted that individual assaults and incidents happened - those are not the same as a massacre. It is not playing games with words, it is stating the obvious distinction. It is half-wits who are trying to portray individual incidents to be the same as a massacre.
Clark has not refuted anything. She is even regarded as a crook by those in the revisionist circles.
But since revisionists are wrong, then that would mean by your logic, that she is correct as she is a neo-revisionist. You can keep hurling insults about her and keep chanting "Nuermberg. Naujocks." All you want. Doesn't change reality.[/quote]

Are you deliberately taking the piss? You're trying to claim that I think everyone who is not a revisionist is always correct.
]And yet, there were atrocities on September 1! Before Bromberg. That was my point.
The Nazis invaded Poland on 1 September. The claim is that BEFORE WW2 started the Poles had massacred ethnic Germans.

Caution must also be used when citing Polnische Blutschuld as evidence that a massacre happened on the 1 September because the images are from the Bromberg massacre which happened on 3 September and the "Polnische Blutschuld - Der Bromberger Blutsonntag 1939" was published in 1940 when the Nazis had also lied about the number of victims to be 58,000.
Which brings us right back to here.
Goody67 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:02 am
Werd wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:01 am
Those Germans badly beaten and murdered as shown in the photographs were rapists and killers, yes or no?
More than likely not. The massacre was terrible and innocent people were killed, no one has claimed otherwise.
Next.
Which brings us back to a massacre that happened on the 3 September, not before WW2.

Remember, the claim is about an alleged massacre before WW2. Why are the only references of a massacre the Bromberg massacre which happened on 3 September after WW2 had begun? Think about that for a moment.
Strangely Unconditioned Canuck never gave a single citation that a million Germans fled Poland.
He was summarizing an article from Jürgen Rieger called A German Patriot Reflects On September 1939 That is also where he gets the claim that examining the German white book reveals atrocities against Germans before the war. The same white book that Walendy cited, but you ignored and then threw in our face a heavily abridged version.
Jürgen Rieger, another Holocaust denier and neo-Nazi cunt. Why can you not cite a respectable historian instead of just the typical neo-Nazi trying to portray the Nazis as angels and everyone else to blame? It's just the same old shit copied and pasted by different neo-Nazis in different articles.

Rieger cited the White Book as evidence of "countless undisputed murders and assaults". Hmmm... can you cite any of those from the White Book?

Canuck also cited:
Under the nonaggression treaty German newspapers were not allowed to report on Polish atrocities against the minority Germans, which led to the emigration of a million Germans.
Do you have any evidence to support the claim? I mean, do you think that the Nazis had German spies all over Poland when they documented the incidents that happened in Poland concerning the ethnic Germans? Or, do you not logically think that word spread due to things being reported in Polish newspapers? How else did the German diplomats get their information which was later published in books by the German Foreign Office?
Nothing in the German White Book provides any evidence that the Germans in Galicia were going to be "annihilated".
Tell you what: I will go through the German translation, find all those numbers in Walendy, and check them in a google translator against how he summarized them and we can all see how accurate his assessment is of them. Because heaven knows you ain't gonna do it to back your own shit up; even after you wave a heavily abridged English version in our face and expect us to believe that an abridged source that DOESN'T contain the same numbers he has, somehow allows us to see his interpretations are. wrong. :lol:
[/quote]

You said you were going to do that back in October last yearr. I thought after all of this time you would have had the citations ready! Instead you just stopped replying on the "Nazi attitudes towards the Slavs." thread.

The stupidity of neo-Nazi half-wits is that they don't even realise that the Nazis never even made any claims of a pre-WW2 massacre.

Neo-Nazi twats like to cite the Nazis as a reliable source (any documents/books) but even when a massacre did happen, they were not even truthful and exploited it for propaganda purposes. Goebbels and his propaganda estimated initially that 5,800 Germans had been killed during the Bromberg massacre. A year later and the figure was increased to 58,000 (more than likely on Hitler's orders) and the figure 58,000 was used in every pamphlet/brochure/document/book about Bromberg massacre.

Citing the Nazis or any Nazi material as a reliable source is ridiculous. The Nazis often made claims leading up to WW2 about the Poles allegedly organising and tolerating ethnic cleansing of the ethnic Germans in Poland. The British investigated the claims and found them to be wild and gross exaggerations. Yet we are supposed to believe everything the Nazis wrote in their documents and books about the Poles as gospel. Yeah, right. :roll:

A Stormfront user has already cited the incidents from the books:

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t93964 ... st11104860

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t93964 ... st11037855

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t10457 ... st12177417

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t958374/

The same user said:
I already posted those exact instances and more, directly from the German White & Blue Books here, here and here. Don't pretend like you've found a goldmine over here.

Guess what? NOT A SINGLE MASSACRE IS MENTIONED, because pre-war massacres DID NOT HAPPEN.

And you haven't read the official German Blue book with all its primary sources, so stop your yapping about pre-war massacres, because not a single one is mentioned, not even in the officially published 1939/1940 propaganda books on Polish atrocities. And what's your excuse for that? Simple, the Allies burned those books and printed new books with the massacres redacted out!
https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t10457 ... st12182705
Last edited by Goody67 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The false claim that the Poles massacred ethnic Germans before WW2

Post by Goody67 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:52 pm

Richard J. Evans wrote about the false claims in his book The Third Reich in Power:
But from May onwards, Goebbels’s daily press instructions unfolded a hate campaign against Poland that made it seem as if the ethnic German inhabitants of the country, and above all of Danzig, were in constant, mortal and growing danger from violence meted out to them by Poles. ‘Ethnic Germans flee from Polish terror’, screamed the headlines. ‘German houses broken into with axes - Terrorized by Poles for weeks - Hundreds of refugees are arrested by the Poles’. Poles were allegedly murdering ethnic Germans, shooting at German passers-by in Danzig, and generally threatening to make their lives unbearable. Although the Polish government’s policy towards the ethnic German minority had been considerably less liberal and tolerant than that of its Czech counterpart, these stories were grotesque exaggerations if not pure invention. For their part, the Nazis who dominated the political scene in Danzig kept up the pressure by provoking the Poles and staging incidents for the German press to exploit, such as mounting violent attacks on Polish customs officers and spreading atrocity stories when the officers defended themselves.
Ian Kershaw also wrote about the claims in his book Hitler 1935-1945: Nemesis:
There was no shortage of eager helpers among the ethnic Germans in the former Polish territories. The explosion of violence recalled, in hugely magnified fashion, the wild and barbarous treatment of 'enemies of the state' in Germany in spring 1933. But now, after six years of cumulative onslaught on every tenet of human and civilized behaviour, and persistent indoctrination with the chauvinistic hatred, the penned-in aggression could be let loose externally on a downtrodden and despised enemy

There had been undoubted discrimination against the German minority – around 3 per cent of the total population – in pre-war Poland, mounting sharply during the summer crisis of 1939. The Germans had also been economically disadvantaged. The incorporation of Austria and the Sudeten-land had then raised expectations among the Germans in Poland of their own 'return to the Reich'. And, in a climate of mounting ethnic conflict, Goebbels's propaganda, grossly exaggerating or simply fabricating incidents of sporadic violence against the German minority (while of course keeping quiet about worse outrages on the German side), contributed immensely to inciting venomous antagonism towards the Poles.

For their part, immediately following the German invasion the Poles, reacting to real or alleged cases of sabotage by the German minority – taken to be a 'fifth column' – arrested some 10-15,000 ethnic Germans (1-2 percent of the German minority) and force-marched them eastwards. Though the brutality accompanying the marches was later hugely magnified for propaganda purposes, the prisoners were indeed often beaten, or otherwise maltreated, and subjected to violence by the local population as they passed through Polish towns and villages. In some cases, those unfit to walk any further were shot.

Outrages against the minority German population occurred in numerous places. Most notoriously in Bromberg (Bydgoszcz), attacks on Germans on 3 September had the character of a local pogrom. Precisely how many died at Bromberg has never been satisfactorily established. For German propaganda, the attacks on ethnic Germans were exploited as an apparent justification for a policy of 'ethnic cleansing' that had surpassed in its first days anything that could be regarded as retaliation. The Germans claimed in November 1939 5,400 had been killed in the 'September Murders' (including what they dubbed the 'Bromberg Bloody Sunday'). Then, in February 1940, on Hitler's own instructions (it was later claimed) this was simply multiplied by around ten-fold and a figure of 58,000 German dead invented. The most reliable estimates put the total number of ethnic Germans killed in outrages, forced marches, bombing and shelling at around 4,000. Terrible though these atrocities were, they were more or less spontaneous outbursts of hatred that took place in the context of panic and fear following the German invasion. They did not remotely compare with, let alone provide any justification for, the calculated savagery of the treatment meted out by the German masters, directed at wiping out anything other than a slave existence for the Polish people.
So Werd, are you, or any other person believing in the claim that the Poles massacred ethnic Germans going to actually provide evidence cited by reliable sources? Or, are you just going to keep citing the same neo-Nazi bullshit? Even after a few months you are still posting the same crap.

Reality check for you: the Nazis cited claims of individual incidents of assaults, murders and ethnic cleansing of the ethnic Germans (newsreels showed Germans fleeing to Germany), but not massacres. The last claim - massacres - is a pure neo-Nazi invention that is not supported by any evidence.
Last edited by Goody67 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The false claim that the Poles massacred ethnic Germans before WW2

Post by Huntinger » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:53 pm

Someone is up to no Goody.
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Re: The false claim that the Poles massacred ethnic Germans before WW2

Post by Huntinger » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:55 pm

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Re: The false claim that the Poles massacred ethnic Germans before WW2

Post by Werd » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:04 pm

Clark has not refuted anything. She is even regarded as a crook by those in the revisionist circles.

But since revisionists are wrong, then that would mean by your logic, that she is correct as she is a neo-revisionist. You can keep hurling insults about her and keep chanting "Nuermberg. Naujocks." All you want. Doesn't change reality.
Are you deliberately taking the piss?
I would call it throwing your own stupid logic back in your face. You said revisionists reject her AS IF THAT MEANS SOMETHING. So since you're bringing up revisionists rejecting her APPARENTLY for some allegedly good reason in your mind, you must be trying to connect it to something. But if revisionists are wrong, that means they are wrong about her being wrong. If you don't like it, then change your words. And also keep shouting "Nuermberg" and "Naujocks" all you want. Doesn't mean a thing.

As for you speaking German or not, there is this:
Goody67 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:04 pm
blake121666 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:42 pm
I'd like to know what Bob's native language is. His English is horrendous at times. I always figured him to be a native German speaker. What language does Goody67 think Bob's native language is?

EDIT: BTW, good find, Bob. I don't think Elke Fröhlich would write it like that if it didn't specifically and exactly say that. I am saving your scan for reference. Goody had me wondering about this one.
I'm not sure if he is a native German speaker since he has asked me to ask a German speaker about the definition of German words. I think he's more than likely a native speaker of a Germanic language, but not English.
If you spoke German, surely you would have been able to translate the passage quoted by Bob in your very own post that preceded this one I just put up in block quotation.
Neo-Nazi twats like to cite the Nazis as a reliable source (any documents/books) but even when a massacre did happen, they were not even truthful and exploited it for propaganda purposes. Goebbels and his propaganda estimated initially that 5,800 Germans had been killed during the Bromberg massacre. A year later and the figure was increased to 58,000 (more than likely on Hitler's orders) and the figure 58,000 was used in every pamphlet/brochure/document/book about Bromberg massacre.
Now we're back on Bromberg again? Okay. Whatever. Let's just say I agree that Nazis didn't not inflate certain things. Veronica Clark was careful to point this out.

I guess that means Goody67 has some company in that Stormfront user whitium in that they both tend to believe that Walendy is taking liberties with his parentheses citations of the German white book. Maybe Goody should either join me, or beat me in the race to toss out the heavily abridged English white book that is missing 97% of the sections Walendy cited and try a better source. We can try the Deutsche white book that actually HAS ALL the sources that are cited in Walendy just to make sure. I mean that would make sense, right?
Last edited by Werd on Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The false claim that the Poles massacred ethnic Germans before WW2

Post by Goody67 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:12 pm

Werd wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:04 pm
I would call it throwing your own stupid logic back in your face. You said revisionists reject her AS IF THAT MEANS SOMETHING. So since you're bringing up revisionists rejecting her APPARENTLY for some allegedly good reason in your mind, you must be trying to connect it to something. But if revisionists are wrong, that means they are wrong about her being wrong. If you don't like it, then change your words. And also keep shouting "Nuermberg" and "Naujocks" all you want. Doesn't mean a thing.
I think it’s just another case of you deliberately taking what I said out of context.
As for you speaking German or not, there is this:
Goody67 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:04 pm
I'm not sure if he is a native German speaker since he has asked me to ask a German speaker about the definition of German words. I think he's more than likely a native speaker of a Germanic language, but not English.
If you spoke German, surely you would have been able to translate the passage quoted by Bob in your very own post that preceded this one I just put up in block quotation.
Why should I need to have translated it when Bob had already translated the quote?

The person was asking because of Bob’s posts, not because he cited the German quote. Perhaps try reading the thread before trying your best to prove your unfounded claim.

You lie so much that you don’t even know when you are lying. Another trait of yours is to deliberately create a straw man.

Anyway, post your findings in the German White Book of any massacres. I am looking forward to it. ;)
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Re: The false claim that the Poles massacred ethnic Germans before WW2

Post by Huntinger » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:13 pm

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Re: The false claim that the Poles massacred ethnic Germans before WW2

Post by Werd » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:16 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:23 pm
Goody67 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:04 pm

I'm not sure if he is a native German speaker since he has asked me to ask a German speaker about the definition of German words. I think he's more than likely a native speaker of a Germanic language, but not English.
Ha ha ha this dork thinks it knows German and many other things for which it has no clue. It thinks it is likely but provides no evidence: according to the Gospel of Goody/Nessie the mantra of "evidence is everything" must continue. What must continue is that the show shoah must go on regardless of the reality.
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You never responded to his challenge and proved you could speak German, Goody. A dodge is basically an admission in my book.

Feel free to correct me and prove you understand German to some extent anytime.

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Re: The false claim that the Poles massacred ethnic Germans before WW2

Post by Goody67 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:17 pm

Werd wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:04 pm
Now we're back on Bromberg again? Okay. Whatever. Let's just say I agree that Nazis didn't not inflate certain things. Veronica Clark was careful to point this out.

I guess that means Goody67 has some company in that Stormfront user whitium in that they both tend to believe that Walendy is taking liberties with his parentheses citations of the German white book. Maybe Goody should either join me, or beat me in the race to toss out the heavily abridged English white book that is missing 97% of the sections Walendy cited and try a better source. We can try the Deutsche white book that actually HAS ALL the sources that are cited in Walendy just to make sure. I mean that would make sense, right?
I was making the point that the Nazis even lied about the details of a massacre that actually happened.

The Stormfront user posted all of the findings in the books and no massacres were found. According to you, he must have missed the massacres out in his post so go ahead and cite the alleged massacres in the English or German books.
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Re: The false claim that the Poles massacred ethnic Germans before WW2

Post by Werd » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:19 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:17 pm
The Stormfront user posted all of the findings in the books and no massacres were found.
He went through every single document Walendy did? Link? Quote?
According to you, he must have missed the massacres out in his post so go ahead and cite the alleged massacres in the English or German books.
According to you he missed nothing and he showed every citation Walendy made in brackets and then summarized himself was twisted from the original truth. So again, link? Quote? Or mere assertion?

P.S.
In this post
viewtopic.php?p=141478#p141478
you relied on the INTERNET to translate from English to German. You expect me to believe someone who knows German (like you allegedly) would rely on the internet to go back and forth between two languages? You even said to Bob, " Why should I need to ask a German speaker if you can speak the German language?" Hmmm. And being a German speaker such as yourself, you couldn't show him the way so to speak? Without the aid of the internet?
Another example of why I am doubting that you have actually read the book is that you asked me to ask a German speaker about the meaning of a German word. Why should I need to ask a German speaker if you can speak the German language?
Funny how you didn't do anything to demonstrate you could speak German yourself and help out with the passage free of the internet after Bob asked for help. :lol:

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