Is Nessie Destroying RODOH? (May 2017)

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Werd
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Re: Is Nessie Destroying RODOH? (May 2017)

Post by Werd » Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:58 am

Sorry Nessie but your precious 30 October 1941 document you love so much links up with the June 28 document that was not based on real time data but mere theoretical guesses and projections based on older model oven cremations in the past. So you have a guess based on a guess. This has already been exposed.
viewtopic.php?p=124497#p124497
viewtopic.php?p=124515#p124515
I even challenged you to find proof for the figures of your precious June 28 document (that underlies the October one you love so much) being based on real time data observations.
viewtopic.php?p=124542#p124542
and you admitted you had none.
viewtopic.php?p=124568#p124568

So the issue is over and dead long ago. Nowhere is there proof that you can get a smashable skeleton in a coke fired oven in 30 minutes, much less 20. You still lose, loser. :lol:

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Re: Is Nessie Destroying RODOH? (May 2017)

Post by rollo the ganger » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:36 pm

Maybe Nessie KNOWS (not guesses) why Goebbels didn't burn to ash when set alight:

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Nessie
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Re: Is Nessie Destroying RODOH? (May 2017)

Post by Nessie » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:15 pm

Werd wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:50 am
You claimed that the corpses at Birkenau were only reduced to minimal smashable skeletons to get pushed through the grates with poking and stirring, but in these single corpse cremations, not only was the single corpse further along than just a mere smashable skeleton that could have been poked through given grate spaces, but it was done apparently in only 30 minutes.
That does not make sense, try again.
LOOK AT YOUR OWN WORDS!
If you partially cremate and rake four corpses, it could possible take the same amount as time as fully cremating one corpse without raking it.
And more recently:
Or in 30 minutes we have one skeleton that has crumbled and does not need smashing. But in 30 minutes 4 would need smashing.
THIS IS YOUR DICHOTOMY. YOU ARE SETTING IT UP. AND I AM RUNNING WITH IT. Now let's continue...
You are saying the bodies in single corpse cremations are destroyed much more than what they were in Tauber's scenario. What this means is that in Birkenau they waited as LITTLE AS POSSIBLE before the skeletons were smashable. But you are claiming the skeletons in the single corpse cremations were combusted BEYOND that point. Say maybe 5-10 minutes beyond the very SPLIT SECOND a skeleton would have been smashable through oven grate spaces. In other words the skeleton in the single corpse cremations were more destroyed via heat energy that individual corpses in Birkenau.

But when you say that an oven in a single corpse cremation oven can in 30 minutes ruin a skeleton further along than what each single one in Birkenau was (in front of Tauber's eyes apparently) and without human stoking intervention, THAT MEANS THE OVEN IS IN FACT VERY DAMN HOT AND THUS NOT COLDER THAN BIRKENAU LIKE YOU ARE CLAIMING - YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF THIS. IT'S JUST A LIE. YOU'RE MAKING IT ALL UP TO PROTECT TAUBER'S RIDICULOUS NUMBERS.
Now the fact that you even bother to compare that document to adult corpse cremations from Tauber MEANS YOU CAN'T INJECT FALSE SKEPTICISM into the issue claiming those single corpse cremations were possibly children.
That was not what I actually suggested, you misunderstood by argument. I was giving an example of why the cremations cannot be directly compared, because we do not know corpse size.
As if a 10 pound difference between corpses really makes that much difference in a coke fired oven that has the ability to fire at 1100 degrees without sintering. You're injecting false skepticism into the argument.
Such a claim from Tauber violates thermodyhamics.
Not if the ovens run at different heats and different efficiencies.
Again, of which you have no proof. You're making it up. :lol: Back to what you just said.
Or in 30 minutes we have one skeleton that has crumbled and does not need smashing. But in 30 minutes 4 would need smashing.
THERE'S YOUR DICHOTOMY AGAIN. OKAY. FINE. LET'S RUN WITH IT...

You keep ignoring that for Tauber's scenario about smashing corpses through grate spaces, THEY HAVE TO LOOK LIKE THAT SKELETON PICTURE. THEY HAVE TO BE SKELETAL YOU WILLFULLY IGNORANT TROLL!!! And THEREFORE, since you claim that in 30 minutes, a single corpse can be destroyed via heat energy FURTHER past that point of the SPLIT SECOND that a corpse finally turns into a smashable skeleton, you have to find a report whereby a single corpse in 15-20 minutes can reach the JUST SPLIT SECOND POINT it only becomes a smashable skeleton and not something more destroyed beyond that via heat energy. So where is your precious document?
The difference between us is that I am suggesting possibilities based on the limited evidence and you are claiming definitive conclusions from that same evidence.

The bottom line is that neither of us know exactly how ANY of the cremations worked. In most instances we do not know body size, oven temperature, oven size, oven efficiency, if bodies were raked or not and crucially, to what extent the bodies were cremated.

You are arguing from ignorance and incredulity which is a logical fallacy.
OK, now deal with the document you keep dodging;

Report of 30 October 1941 from the construction office Auschwitz on "60 men can be cremated" in the Topf five three muffle ovens within one hour [Mattogno, IFCDA, p. 353]
It would be nice if you could quote it in full. But I'll play. That's fifteen muffles. So 60 minutes divided by 15 muffles is 4 bodies per muffle.

In other words holocaust controversies is claiming that this document says that 4 bodies per muffle can be reduced to smashable skeletons in one hour. Hmmm. That's double what Tauber seems to be claiming which is 4 bodies per muffle in 30 minutes. I'm not sure how this is helping you.
We do not know to what extent the bodies were cremated, you just made up "smashable skeletons". The cremation rate could also be 2 bodies in 30 minutes. It further evidences that the Nazis were working to increase cremation speed and capacity and have multiple cremations. If 2 were being done in 30 minutes or 4 in an hour in 1941, by 1944 it is reasonable they had been able to increase that further.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Is Nessie Destroying RODOH? (May 2017)

Post by Nessie » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:23 pm

Werd wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:58 am
Sorry Nessie but your precious 30 October 1941 document you love so much links up with the June 28 document that was not based on real time data but mere theoretical guesses and projections based on older model oven cremations in the past. So you have a guess based on a guess. This has already been exposed.
viewtopic.php?p=124497#p124497
viewtopic.php?p=124515#p124515
I even challenged you to find proof for the figures of your precious June 28 document (that underlies the October one you love so much) being based on real time data observations.
viewtopic.php?p=124542#p124542
and you admitted you had none.
viewtopic.php?p=124568#p124568

So the issue is over and dead long ago. Nowhere is there proof that you can get a smashable skeleton in a coke fired oven in 30 minutes, much less 20. You still lose, loser. :lol:
You have failed to link and directly quote where those documents were supposedly referring to "a guess".

The document is here;

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/Rod ... cGc=/?ref=

Show me where it admits the engineers were guessing.

Even if they were projected capacities, I would take the engineers who were working on the ovens in 1941 over your projected capacities in 2018, which are an argument from ignorance and incredulity, which is a logical fallacy.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Werd
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Re: Is Nessie Destroying RODOH? (May 2017)

Post by Werd » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:56 pm

This is too hilarious:
I am suggesting possibilities based on the limited evidence
neither of us know exactly how ANY of the cremations worked.

Nessie injects false skepticism into the issue claiming there was a massive difference in many undetermined factors. Basically in his world view, there is a wall of ignorance. And then he says of me...
You are arguing from ignorance
Fucking priceless!
:lol:
You have failed to link and directly quote where those documents were supposedly referring to "a guess".
Sorry, but I'm not quoting that all over again. The interested reader can read it all for themselves and see Mattogno quote many extracts himself from the relevant documents showing that the 30 October document and the June 28 document have NO RELATION TO REAL TIME DATA TAKEN FROM LIVE OBSERVATIONS.
Even if they were projected capacities, I would take the engineers who were working on the ovens in 1941
THAT'S THE PROBLEM. THE PEOPLE WHO WROTE THE JUNE 28 DOCUMENT OF WHICH YOUR OCTOBER 30 1941 DOCUMENT IS BASED ON, WERE NOT CREMATION EXPERTS BUT PEOPLE WHO WORKED IN THE CENTRAL CONSTRUCTION OFFICE MAKING ESTIMATES AND MAKING THEORIES ABOUT HOW LONG A CERTAIN OVEN WOULD TAKE THAT WASN'T EVEN BUILT YET.

This document was full of errors and needed correcting. Mattogno not only proved this but further cited in his footnotes EXAMPLES of documents issued by the Central Construction Office of Auschwitz being corrected.

Like I said, I'm not quoting this all over again. The interested reader can go and see it for themselves.
If 2 were being done in 30 minutes or 4 in an hour in 1941, by 1944 it is reasonable they had been able to increase that further.
And Nessie is basing this on absolutely fuck all! :lol:

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Re: Is Nessie Destroying RODOH? (May 2017)

Post by Nessie » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:06 pm

Werd wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:56 pm
This is too hilarious:
I am suggesting possibilities based on the limited evidence
neither of us know exactly how ANY of the cremations worked.

Nessie injects false skepticism into the issue claiming there was a massive difference in many undetermined factors. He claims there is a wall of ignorance.
It is not false to point out that we do not know the basics for many of the cremations, such as oven size, temperature, efficiency and crucially to what extent the body/ies were cremated.
And then he says of me...
You are arguing from ignorance
Fucking priceless!
:lol:
Your arguments that it was not possible to do what Tauber and other witnesses claimed at Birkenau is an argument from ignorance and incredulity, which is a fallacy.
You have failed to link and directly quote where those documents were supposedly referring to "a guess".
Sorry, but I'm not quoting that all over again. The interested reader can read it all for themselves and see Mattogno quote many extracts himself from the relevant documents showing that the 30 October document and the June 28 document have NO RELATION TO REAL TIME DATA TAKEN FROM LIVE OBSERVATIONS.
Even if they were projected capacities, I would take the engineers who were working on the ovens in 1941
THAT'S THE PROBLEM. THE PEOPLE WHO WROTE THE JUNE 28 DOCUMENT OF WHICH YOUR OCTOBER 30 1941 DOCUMENT IS BASED ON, WERE NOT CREMATION EXPERTS BUT PEOPLE WHO WORKED IN THE CENTRAL CONSTRUCTION OFFICE MAKING ESTIMATES AND MAKING THEORIES ABOUT HOW LONG A CERTAIN OVEN WOULD TAKE THAT WASN'T EVEN BUILT YET.

This document was full of errors and needed correcting. It was corrected. Mattogno not only proved this but further cited in his footnotes EXAMPLES of documents issued by the Central Construction Office of Auschwitz being corrected.

Like I said, I'm not quoting this all over again. The interested reader can go and see it for themselves.

You hate being asked to directly link and quote as your claims are often not backed up by the link and quote. I linked to the document in question regarding;

Report of 30 October 1941 from the construction office Auschwitz on "60 men can be cremated" in the Topf five three muffle ovens within one hour [Mattogno, IFCDA, p. 353]

Where does it say they were guessing?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Is Nessie Destroying RODOH? (May 2017)

Post by Nessie » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:08 pm

Werd wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:56 pm
.....
If 2 were being done in 30 minutes or 4 in an hour in 1941, by 1944 it is reasonable they had been able to increase that further.
And Nessie is basing this on absolutely fuck all! :lol:
No, I am basing that on what Tauber said in 1944, that capacity had been increased further and they were now putting around 4 bodies in every 30 minutes or so.

The fuck all is what you have to back up your beliefs those people were not gassed and cremated and instead they all left Birkenau.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Werd
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Re: Is Nessie Destroying RODOH? (May 2017)

Post by Werd » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:16 pm

Your arguments that it was not possible to do what Tauber and other witnesses claimed at Birkenau is an argument from ignorance and incredulity, which is a fallacy.
No, it's an argument from documentary evidence because your own documents claim it took twice as long. That's when you whip out the ad hoc and claim it is reasonable to believe that they cut the time it took for four corpses per muffle three years later. Claiming it is possible needs proof. Not just your assertion.
No, I am basing that on what Tauber said in 1944,
And what scientific evidence is his claim based on? Certainly not those documents you cited since that blew up in your face. :lol:
Report of 30 October 1941 from the construction office Auschwitz on "60 men can be cremated" in the Topf five three muffle ovens within one hour [Mattogno, IFCDA, p. 353]

Where does it say they were guessing?
The interested reader is free to hit those links I gave back to the old "Ovens" topic to see massive quoted extracts from Mattogno's book who gave direct quotes out of that German document in his book. The interested reader will find that neither the figures given in the June 28 document was not based on real time data observation. Nor will the interested reader see any proof that the October document is also based on real time observation. And even if it is, that's still twice as long to cremate four corpses per muffle than Tauber claimed. Nessie's ad hoc of well they must have cut the time in half by 1944 is just an ad hoc that doesn't actually have any proof outside of Tauber's wild claims.

Nessie is engaging in special pleading that we just accept Tauber's words despite the lack of real hard documentary/experimental evidence for his figures outside of his own claims. :lol:

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Re: Is Nessie Destroying RODOH? (May 2017)

Post by Nessie » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:20 pm

Werd wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:16 pm
Your arguments that it was not possible to do what Tauber and other witnesses claimed at Birkenau is an argument from ignorance and incredulity, which is a fallacy.
No, it's an argument from documentary evidence because your own documents claim it took twice as long. That's when you whip out the ad hoc and claim it is reasonable to believe that they cut the time it took for four corpses per muffle three years later. Claiming it is possible needs proof. Not just your assertion.
No, I am basing that on what Tauber said in 1944,
And what scientific evidence is his claim based on? Certainly not those documents you cited since that blew up in your face. :lol:
Your claim is that since documents from different years, at different camps, with many unknown details, report smaller numbers of bodies were cremated that Tauber reported, therefore what Tauber said was incredible and impossible to achieve, therefore he lied.

Your argument from incredulity and ignorance is a fallacy.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Is Nessie Destroying RODOH? (May 2017)

Post by Nessie » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:23 pm

Werd wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:16 pm
......
Report of 30 October 1941 from the construction office Auschwitz on "60 men can be cremated" in the Topf five three muffle ovens within one hour [Mattogno, IFCDA, p. 353]

Where does it say they were guessing?
The interested reader is free to hit those links I gave back to the old "Ovens" topic to see massive quoted extracts from Mattogno's book who gave direct quotes out of that German document in his book. The interested reader will find that neither the figures given in the June 28 document was not based on real time data observation. Nor will the interested reader see any proof that the October document is also based on real time observation. And even if it is, that's still twice as long to cremate four corpses per muffle than Tauber claimed. Nessie's ad hoc of well they must have cut the time in half by 1944 is just an ad hoc that doesn't actually have any proof outside of Tauber's wild claims.

Nessie is engaging in special pleading that we just accept Tauber's words despite the lack of real hard documentary/experimental evidence for his figures outside of his own claims. :lol:
Where does it say those figures of "60 men can be cremated" were guessing in this document?

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/Rod ... cGc=/?ref=

Why should anyone believe your guessing in 2018, over what engineers at the kremas were reporting back in 1941?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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