Does the Quran Allow Marriage to Children? (SPOILER ALERT: YES!)

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been-there
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Re: Does the Bible allow marriage to children? (SPOILER ALERT: YES!)

Post by been-there »

Werd wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:31 pm
Does the Quran allow marriage to children? (SPOILER ALERT: YES!)
Hey, Werd, why not try stoping your irrational hatred of muslims and the religion of Islam, based as it is upon ill-informed, ignorant, prejudicial and hypocritical grounds?
Just a friendly suggestion. :)
I suggest that as it just makes you look unreasonable as well as fanatically hateful.


The 'holy' book of Jews and Christians ALSO has their deity Jahweh/Jehovah permitting making wives or sex-slaves of kidnapped "little", female children.
So why are you never posting videos of that, Werd?
Christians believe that the Bible has nothing to say with regards to the condoning or approving of child marriage. However, when we look into the Bible, we find passages that do approve of it. One of the most prominent examples is of Numbers 31.
17. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Numbers 31:17-18 (KJV)
This is one of the most disturbing set of passages that I have come across in the Bible. These passages basically state to Moses’s soldiers that it’s ‘OK’ to have sexual relations with “women children” that are obtained in war. The translation for “women children” is very misleading and it has been deliberately translated that way to deceive readers. In fact, when we look at the Hebrew words used for the verse, it just says female “children”, “little ones”. For further details that the passage speaks about children and not women click on the following article here.

Three accurate translations which clearly show that the passage only speaks about ‘female children’ are as follows:
Jubilee Bible 2000 – “But all the female children that have not known a man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.” – Numbers 31:18
Webster’s Bible – “Translation But all the female children that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” – Numbers 31:18
Living Bible (TLB) – “Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves.” – Numbers 31:18
Since it’s clear that Numbers 31:18 speaks about female children and not ‘women’, what does “keep alive for yourselves” mean? Of course the verse gave permission to Moses’s soldiers to marry those female children. However, don’t take my word for it, let’s see what Christian Bible commentaries say for the verse.

BIBLE COMMENTARIES
Whedon’s Commentary on the Bible:

Verse 17-18.
The little ones — The object of the command to kill every male was to exterminate the whole nation, the cup of whose iniquity was full. For the righteousness of the mode see Joshua 6:21, note. Every woman who might possibly have been engaged in the licentious worship of Peor was to share the fate of the male children, to preserve Israel from all taint of that abomination. The pure maidens could be incorporated into Israel without peril to the national religion. Joshua 6:23-25, notes. They could not be treated as concubines, since the law against fornication was in full force, (Deuteronomy 22:25-29,) but they could be lawfully married to their captors (Deuteronomy 21:10-14). [1]
Peter Pett’s Commentary on the Bible:

Numbers 31:18
‘But all the women-children, who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.’ But the young women children were a different matter. They could be taken in marriage or as servants and would expect to accept the religion of their new husbands or masters. They would gradually be merged into Israel. Compare Deuteronomy 21:10-14. They would not feel the same responsibility for blood vengeance which was mainly incumbent on the males.[2]
NIV: The New American Commentary – An Exegetical And Theological Exposition of Holy Scripture:

… Only the young girls would be allowed to live so that they may be taken as wives or slaves by Israelite men, according to the principles of holy war (Deut 20:13-14; 21:10-14). By this they could be brought under the umbrella of the covenant community of faith. [3]
John Dummelow’s Commentary on the Bible:

13-18. The male children are put to death in order that the race of idolaters may be extirpated. The older women are also slain as having been the prime cause of the apostasy, and likely to lead the people astray at a future time. The women-children, or young females, are spared, and are taken as slaves or wives, being probably adopted into the Hebrew nation as proselytes: cp. Deuteronomy 21:10-14. For the reason of such wholesale slaughter see Numbers 33:55; Deuteronomy 20:17-18; Joshua 23:13 and on Numbers 25:16-18. [4]
The above Bible commentaries quite clearly state that, “keep alive for yourselves” means those female children were to be married off to grown adult Israelite [he means 'Jewish'] men.

There is no mention anywhere in the commentaries that the girls have to grow up and hit puberty before they get married.
I brought up the latter point, because some desperate missionaries claim that the girls had to grow up before a marriage took place.
Numbers 31:18 in the Bible shows that Moses’s soldiers were commanded to marry pre-pubescent girls. This means that the holiest text of Christianity supports marrying and having sexual relations with pre-pubescent girls. This is concrete proof that the Bible endorses marriage with pre-pubescent girls. As we have read Numbers 31:18 and the Bible commentaries, they all state that marriage took place straight away.

In fact, in the Biblical commentaries already mentioned, they all refer to Deuteronomy 21:10-14 as evidence that the marriage took place straight away within a month. Let’s read the verse:
Deuteronomy 21:10-14 Good News Translation (GNT) – “When the Lord your God gives you victory in battle and you take prisoners, 11 you may see among them a beautiful woman that you like and want to marry. 12 Take her to your home, where she will shave her head, cut her fingernails, 13 and change her clothes. She is to stay in your home and mourn for her parents for a month; after that, you may marry her. 14 Later, if you no longer want her, you are to let her go free. Since you forced her to have intercourse with you, you cannot treat her as a slave and sell her.”
In the part where it says beautiful “woman”, the Hebrew word ‘ishshah’ is translated as ‘woman’ and it is also translated as “female” (when we consult Jubilee Bible and Webster’s Bible for Numbers 31:18, both of them translate the Hebrew word ‘Ishashah’ as ‘female’).

Reading Deuteronomy 21:10-14 we get a clear picture that YHWH commands its soldiers that when they go out in war and they see a beautiful females, and the soldier is attracted to her, he can “TAKE” the female and force her to marry him after one month. The word “take” is in of itself evidence that the females were taken without their consent i.e., they were forced into a marriage that they did not consent to. In verse 13 to 14 it goes further and states, that if the soldier were to not desire the female any-more he may let her go as he wishes because “you forced her to have intercourse with you”.

The period in which the soldier cannot marry her is within a one month period of mourning. After that period the soldier can do what he wishes to the female, as the verse clearly states.

References:

[1] Whedon’s Commentary on the Bible
[2] Peter Pett’s Commentary on the Bible
[3] NIV: The New American Commentary – An Exegetical And Theological Exposition of Holy Scripture: Numbers, [Copyright 2000 – B& H Publishing Group] By R. Dennis Cole, volume 3b, page 499
[4] John Dummelow’s Commentary on the Bible.

https://discover-the-truth.com/2015/10/ ... the-bible/
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Re: Does the Bible allow marriage to children? (SPOILER ALERT: YES!)

Post by Werd »

been-there wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:37 pm
Werd wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 8:31 pm
Does the Quran allow marriage to children? (SPOILER ALERT: YES!)
Hey, Werd, why not try stoping your irrational hatred of muslims
Since you aren't specific about which Muslims are under discussion, I'm unable to give a proper answer. Please rephrase your point. Or don't.
and the religion of Islam,
I'm an atheist. It's my obligation to hate all organized religions.
based as it is upon ill-informed, ignorant, prejudicial and hypocritical grounds?
Such as translations that are accepted and verified by Muslim scholars? Isn't it amazing how the best scholars of Islam are white liberals who can't read arabic?
Religion: Sharia-based Iranian law states that the legal age for marriage is 13 for girls and 15 for boys, but marriages can still be carried out at a younger age with the consent of fathers and permission from court judges. This has enabled a culture whereby child marriage is considered somewhat socially acceptable.

https://www.girlsnotbrides.org/child-marriage/iran/
Thanks, Islam! :twisted:
So why are you never posting videos of that, Werd?
Congratulations on missing the forest for the trees once again: Show me the Jewish and Christian THEOCRACIES which have made religious texts part of the government based law of the land to where it's going on to the EXTENT that it is in the Muslim world, and then maybe you can pat yourself on the back thinking you've just asked a question that stumped me. The only thing you can congratulate yourself on is admitting these verses exist in Islam. Many liberals would deny or ignore this. You're not totally regressive. Just a little bit.

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Re: Does the Quran Allow Marriage to Children? (SPOILER ALERT: YES!)

Post by Werd »

Okay, the Koran and the Hadith allows marriage and divorce to girls before puberty, but not sex.

Actually, once you look into the rules of Iddah in divorce, we can use modus ponens to declare the conclusion that yes, sex with prepubescent girls was permitted if she is your wife.

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Re: Does the Quran Allow Marriage to Children? (SPOILER ALERT: YES!)

Post by been-there »

Give up your irrational hatred and prejudice of muslims, Werd.
It is ignorant and hypocritical behaviour.
If you railed equally as vociferously against Jewish and Christian customs it would be sign of a fair and ethically consistent attitude. But in your case it clearly isn't that.
Come out of it now.
In ancient and medieval civilisations [worldwide], it was a regular practice to give girls away in marriage as soon as they reached puberty, and sometimes earlier.
This practice continued throughout the Middle Ages and most girls were married by age fifteen.

Ruth Lamden in her book A separate people: Jewish women in Palestine, Syria, and Egypt in the sixteenth Century, notes that it is important to realise that for culture customs contribute to the perception of appropriate marriage age. She details that in those times, according to Jewish law, girls were considered adults by the time they were twelve and a half.
Why New Jersey Orthodox Jews stalled a Bill banning child marriages
Under current New Jersey law, 16- and 17-year-olds are allowed to marry with parental consent, and children 15 and younger are allowed to marry with permission of a judge
June 5th, 2018
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/why-new ... -1.6152985
Q. When have you railed against Jewish law and sex/marriage being religously permitted with girls as young as 12 years old, Werd?
A. Never!

So give up this racially motivated antipathy grounded in hypocrisy.
In 2018, Alissa Koski and Jody Heymann, two researchers from the University of California Los Angeles, compiled a study detailing the prevalence of child marriage in the U.S. and common characteristics of those unions. The findings were published in their article ‘Child marriage in the United States: how common is the practice, and which children are at greatest risk?’.
They found that out of every 1,000 children surveyed, about six were married.

Unchained At Last, an organisation dedicated to ending forced and child marriage in the United States, found marriage licenses for more than 167,000 children between 2000 and 2010.

Based on the correlation between population and incidence of child marriage, they estimated that the actual number of child marriages in the U.S. during that time was closer to 248,000.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Re: Does the Quran Allow Marriage to Children? (SPOILER ALERT: YES!)

Post by Werd »

been-there wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 11:39 am
Give up your irrational hatred and prejudice of muslims, Werd.
Virtue signal.
It is ignorant and hypocritical behaviour.
Because...?
If you railed equally as vociferously against Jewish and Christian customs it would be sign of a fair and ethically consistent attitude. But in your case it clearly isn't that.
Are Jews and Christians doing it at the same rate in Europe? Muslims do it more per capita. That's the problem. Second of all, by pointing out that Jews and Christians still do it to some smaller extent, you merely prove my point that we need to close the borders in Europe to keep Muslim pedophilia, acid attacks, rape gangs, etc out so that we can deal with the religious Jews and Christians that are psychotic. Thanks for making my argument for me about needing to close borders to Muslims.
Q. When have you railed against Jewish law and sex/marriage being religously permitted with girls as young as 12 years old, Werd?
A. Never!
Oh really? I've never once in my life on any internet board under any other name talked shit about the Old Testament or the Talmud? Never? I've never pointed to child sex in Judaism and Christianity to justify my atheism that began when I was a teenager? Never ever? Okay. :roll:

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Re: Does the Quran Allow Marriage to Children? (SPOILER ALERT: YES!)

Post by Werd »

been-there wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 11:39 am
If you railed equally as vociferously against Jewish and Christian customs it would be sign of a fair and ethically consistent attitude.
Been-there doesn't know how to use a search engine. Here's an old topic about me talking about a rabbinic tradition with talmudic sanction about sucking the penis of little boys whose penis have just met the knife in a circumcision.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2040

In this post, I talked about the Jewish blood rituals and occult magic rites in the Talmud and Kabbala. One of the links is about RABBINIC PEDOPHILIA.
viewtopic.php?p=101710#p101710

Been-there also forgets that a topic HE LIKED because it contained an exposure of the Zionist Scofield Bible that was unknown to him, I quoted a long interview with Ted Pike and Daryl Bradford Smith. Here is one clip of that interview:
Daryl:
Now let's give our listeners an idea of some of the evils were talking about. I recently was talking about codifying homosexuality for example. It's not homosexuality if you have sex with a child under nine for example, or with a young girl over three years and one day, because her virginity can heal. And then they start talking about how beastility can be explained away in some instances in the Talmud. The fact is, there is no dispensation for these kinds of illnesses.


Ted:
In the talmud, the rabbis are the makers of halaka, or jewish law. We find rabbis like Simon Ben Yohai. Some rabbis who were on the scene of the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, now these earliest rabbis were all pedophiles, all child abusers. Again and again to the most authoritative treatises of the Talud, they say a girl of three years and a day is ready for sex and is made ready for marriage by coition, or the act of sex with her. Rape. In my book ISRAEL: OUR DUTY, OUR DILEMMA, I have documenation of that with Xerox photocopies in my book. Rabbis have endorsed this as a privilege. These ancient rabbis say that a boy since he is not mature at nine, a rabbi can have sex with him without moral ramifications. It's neutral. What I'm saying is, at the very foundation of talmudic judaism, we have hypocrites. For that reason, it is not a mystery why it was found that ninety percent of these Jewish media executives, people found astonishing results that many of these Jewish media moguls favour homosexuality, adultery and pornography.
So there is me again exposing Talmudic pedophilia to a wider audience.

Here's me calling out the NAMBLA Jews.
viewtopic.php?p=64835#p64835

So been-there can eat his words when he accuses me of not mentioning Jewish/Talmudic pedophilia. He needs to blame himself for his poor memory.

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Re: Does the Quran Allow Marriage to Children? (SPOILER ALERT: YES!)

Post by Werd »

been-there wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 11:39 am
So give up this racially motivated antipathy grounded in hypocrisy.
Islam is not a race. Muslims are not a race. I don't know why I always have to explain this to you.

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Re: Does the Quran Allow Marriage to Children? (SPOILER ALERT: YES!)

Post by Werd »

I can mention Jewish pedophiles, satanic pedophiles (like Saville), Catholic-Jesuit pedophiles and been-there doesn't bat an eyelash. Mention Muslim pedophiles and suddenly there's a problem. :roll:

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