Why didn't Germany avoid the war?

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Alonso
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Why didn't Germany avoid the war?

Post by Alonso »

In the last couple of years I have managed to get a basic understanding of what actually happened in WW2 (as opposed to what the official version says). While the causes of the war were complex, the most immediate cause seems to be the genocide that the Polish government was committing against the Germans in Danzig and other Polish areas.

It seems understandable for the German government to try to stop the mass murder and crime against Germans sponsored by the Polish state, first diplomatically, and then militarily, once the diplomatic options were exhausted. History tells us, though, that was a very bad idea. Of course everything seems easy with hindsight, but still it seems to me that it must have been obvious for Hitler even in 1939 that he was bringing doom upon Germany. International jewry had been lobbying against Germany for several years, specially in the US; and Roosevelt was eager to go to war against Germany and had been preparing for that war well before it started. It was only a matter of time until the US got involved (with or without Pearl Harbour), and Germany never had half a chance against the combined power of the US and its allies. German intelligence must have been aware of all of this in 1939 and even earlier.

So, as heartbreaking a decision as it would have been, why didn't Hitler just say "we're sorry, guys, but we can't help you now"? That would have saved Germany.


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Re: Why didn't Germany avoid the war?

Post by been-there »

Alonso wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 1:45 pm
In the last couple of years I have managed to get a basic understanding of what actually happened in WW2 (as opposed to what the official version says). While the causes of the war were complex, the most immediate cause seems to be the genocide that the Polish government was committing against the Germans in Danzig and other Polish areas.

It seems understandable for the German government to try to stop the mass murder and crime against Germans sponsored by the Polish state, first diplomatically, and then militarily, once the diplomatic options were exhausted. History tells us, though, that was a very bad idea. Of course everything seems easy with hindsight, but still it seems to me that it must have been obvious for Hitler even in 1939 that he was bringing doom upon Germany. International jewry had been lobbying against Germany for several years, specially in the US; and Roosevelt was eager to go to war against Germany and had been preparing for that war well before it started. It was only a matter of time until the US got involved (with or without Pearl Harbour), and Germany never had half a chance against the combined power of the US and its allies. German intelligence must have been aware of all of this in 1939 and even earlier.

So, as heartbreaking a decision as it would have been, why didn't Hitler just say "we're sorry, guys, but we can't help you now"? That would have saved Germany.
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Hitler wanted to revitalise Germany, to modernise it and to rebuild her cities based on ideas of socialism and a love of classical architecture. To do that he understood he needed to change the decrepit and corrupt systems then in place. That is why he was prepared to INITIALLY remove those systems that led to self-defeating, internecine conflict. Germany had FIRST to recover from starvation, economic depression, mass unemployment, massive inflation and almost civil war. The German economy was in total collapse, Germany had no international credit rating, and it had been almost bankrupted by the unjust World War 1 reparations payments.
Another obstacle to that German re-emergence was that communist Jews had been sent by Stalin to move to Germany and encourage, foster and initiate anarchic revolution.
Hitler decided that drastic measures were therefore needed INITIALLY to remove these obstacles to a resurgent, revitalised German society.
Outside of Germany others regarded these renovating policies and their successful implementation with anxiety, anger and fear.

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TWO POINTS CAUSED OTHERS TO UNITE AGAINST HIM TO CONTAIN HIS AMBITIONS

1. One of his changes is what is called his 'economic miracle' which made the United greater Germany an emerging super power. He removed Germany from the gold standard, protected German industry, brought their rampant inflation under control, traded with countries by exchange (instead of with currency through the Jewish controlled banks), etc.
What were those economic policies? He suspended the gold standard, embarked on huge public-works programs like autobahns, protected industry from foreign competition, expanded credit, instituted jobs programs, bullied the private sector on prices and production decisions, vastly expanded the military, enforced capital controls, instituted family planning, penalized smoking, brought about national healthcare and unemployment insurance, imposed education standards, and eventually ran huge deficits. The Nazi interventionist program was essential to the regime's rejection of the market economy and its embrace of socialism in one country.
That caused admiration in some, but also alarm in some other minds in the rest of Europe's capitals.
The background to some of that concern was centuries of White European nations competing for colonies and trade deals. I.e. competing for EMPIRE!
The other main part of that fear and concern was due to the loss to international financiers (predominantly Jewish), of their access to both German wealth and of their internal, political and economic influence.
Plus there were other, similar concerns to those that caused the European monarchies to unite in war over a hundred years previously against a previous powerful, charismatic, modernising socialist, viz. Napoleon. It was called maintaing the 'balance of power'. I.e. no one nation was permitted to become too powerful. This was achieved by diplomacy and treaties. But after WW1 the victor nations, advised by international Jews, had reduced Germany to political impunity and social penury at the Treaty of Versailles.

2. The second reason forces united against Hitler is that he had recognised and exposed the parasitical nature in many areas of society (government, education, academia, commerce, industry, the Arts, etc.,) of what was then called 'international Jewry'. So he implemented laws to limit such undemocratic and self-interested, unpatriotic use of 'Jewish' power and influence. (Napoleon had also recognised what was even then called 'the Jewish question'. Though he had attempted to appease it. As had Bismarck.)
As you probably know, as soon as Hitler had come to power in 1933, the world phenemon that Jews themselves regarded as 'international Jewry' declared open war against Hitler and his political party.

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These Jews started pimping in the rest of Europe and in America for other countries to consider waging war against Hitler's Germany. They succeeded in using the misguided concern that foreign government ministers had over Germany's economic and societal recovery, to paint Hitler as a warmongerer intent on world conquest who had to be stopped.
Which was a calculated deception. A deception that many recognised. E.g. recognised in Britain by Lloyd George, by the recently abdicated King Edward VIII (Duke of Windsor), and by many members in the British House of Lords.

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In reality Hitler wanted the unification of German speaking people's into one Reich, and ONE people (volk).
Plus he had been pushed by others to demand repatriation of confiscated German colonies.
Plus he wanted an end to Foreign — particularly foreign Jewish — inteference in Germanys internal affairs.

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Hitler had seen and understood that certain organisations of powerful Jews and their lackeys — together with competitive imperialists (e.g. in Britain) — wanted to thwart these plans by starting another war to contain him and his ambitions of a great, modernised, united and resurgent Socialist, Nationalist Germany.

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That explains why Hitler himself specifcally stated that it would be better if the inevitable, coming war started sooner (when he was still in his prime), than later (when he would be older and wouldn't have the mental strength and physical stamina).
He wanted to get on with his architectural plans for rebuilding Germany. He understood that a war would take him away from that and would postpone it.
So when war came (remember it was Britain and France who declared war at the behest of American and world Jewry) he sought to get it over with as quick as possible and to then sue for peace.

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But as it had been a coterie of international Jews who had wanted the war and had helped create it for THEIR own self-interests, they weren't prepared to allow any peace proposals to be accepted — no matter how generous — once their 'side' had lost. Too much was at stake for them, and as they weren't a nation fighting and vulnerable to attack, they had nothing to lose but their influence and control.

So, after Hitler had won in 1940 by beating Poland, France and Britain — with relatively few deaths and minimal destruction — these same people with their lackey Churchill escalated the war to one of attempted annihilation. Thus it was that —just as Hitler had prophesised — he accelerated the policy to make ordinary Jews 'pay' just as ordinary Germans, Britains, French, Belgians, etc., were 'paying'. By bringing the war also to them. By arresting them and either making them work in Labour camps or exiling them/removing them and letting them fend for themselved in the Soviet territories.
Jewish 'leaders' had initiated and pimped for warfare. Jewish 'leaders' had brought America into their conflict against the American people's will, by trickery, treachery, and false flag propaganda.
They had turned a European conflict into a world war: the most destructive, murderous war in known history.
And yet after the war that they had initiated was over, they managed to convince the world that 'Jews' in general had been the innocent and main victims of that war. An outrageous deceit that is still believed by the masses, despite how even a brief look at the total of civilian deaths per country immediately exposes that nonsense.

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SUMMARY: Hitler correctly anticipated a war was definitely coming by reading the warning signs from those opposed to him. He preferred to deal with it sooner rather than later. That is why he didn't make pointless, relentless concessions. He had a mission. He understood correctly the forces arrayed against him. He correctly understood that whatever concessions he gave would never be enough and that war would inevitably be forced upon Germany whatever he did. The reason being that HE was regarded as the problem. So as long as he was in power, the forces of international Jewry and its poodle Presidents and Prime Ministers, would be co-ordinated to remove him, because he had dared to expose their machinations and taken them on (I mean these powerful, international Jews). Therefore they were resolved to crush him.

And as we can see now, regretably they prevailed.

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Alonso
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Re: Why didn't Germany avoid the war?

Post by Alonso »

Thank you, @been-there, great answer, as usual. I guess I'm the kind of guy who tends to think "there had to be a better way", but sometimes that's just not the case.

As an aside, and not meaning to detract from your very good answer in any way, I think the Churchill quote might be apochryphal. I looked for a source and couldn't find anything that seemed valid.

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Re: Why didn't Germany avoid the war?

Post by been-there »

Alonso wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 5:55 am
Thank you, @been-there, great answer, as usual. I guess I'm the kind of guy who tends to think "there had to be a better way", but sometimes that's just not the case.

As an aside, and not meaning to detract from your very good answer in any way, I think the Churchill quote might be apochryphal. I looked for a source and couldn't find anything that seemed valid.
I also wondered how authentic the quote was and what the source for it was. So I did a search and it does seem to me to have reliable and trustworthy, verifiable sources. It is an amalgam of two seperate quotes.

First, the source for 'wrong butchered pig' expression:
"It is clear to me now that we have slaughtered the wrong pig".
The New Statesman and Nation, volume 35, page 373, dated 28th August 1948.
It alludes to Churchill's touring bombed-out German cities in 1945.


The "Germany's unforgivable crime" is recorded by Lord Boothby as being said by Winston when in conversation with himself:
"Germany's unforgivable crime before the second world war," Churchill said “was her attempt to extricate her economic power from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit."
-- Churchill to Lord Robert Boothby,
quoted in the Foreword, 2nd Ed. Sydney Rogerson, Propaganda in the Next War 2001, orig. 1938.
The powers that be do not want these admissions by their 'hero' to be widely known, thus they have not been widely circulated.
And people who do not want this admission to gain further notoriety, spread the incorrect notion that they have no credible source.

Previously discussed here
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Re: Why didn't Germany avoid the war?

Post by Alonso »

been-there wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 11:16 pm
it does seem to me to have reliable and trustworthy, verifiable sources
The whole thing seems quite contradictory. It wouldn't make sense for Churchill (or anybody) to talk in 1938 about "Germany's unforgivable crime before the second world war", WW2 hadn't happened yet.

Apart from that, the picture says the quote is from 1960, while the sources are allegedly from 1938 and 1948. Presenting a quote from 1938 as being from 1960 doesn't seem right.

Lastly, mixing together in the same picture a quote from 1938 and another from 1948 making them look like they were said in the same speech is misleading to say the least.

Don't get me wrong, once again I think your answer is very good. But that last picture doesn't seem right. My very uneducated guess is that there are many fake quotations circulating the internet that are used as bait for revisionists. A very cunning and effective trick to make someone who is telling the truth look like a liar is to bait them with fake evidence. It works like this: I'm a hoaxter, and I want to prove that you, a revisionist, are lying. Unfortunately you're telling the truth, so I cannot provide any evidence that you're lying because there is none. Instead, I pretend to be on your side and say "you're so right, actually, look, I just found another piece of evidence that further proves what you're saying". That sounds great, so you might easily decide that there is no need to be as critical and cautious with that alleged evidence as you would be with other pieces of data. After all, you know it supports the truth. So you just mix it together with all the evidence you have collected so far. However, I have deceived you, the alleged evidence I gave you is fake. Then my friend goes to you and claims that the so called holocaust actually happened. You confidently reply showing him all the evidence you got, including the fake evidence I planted in your collection. At that point my friend says "You're a liar! You're using fake evidence!", and he proves that you're using fake evidence indeed. The fact that you were using fake evidence automatically discredits all the evidence you were using, even if everything else was authentic, and now everybody thinks you're a fraud.

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Re: Why didn't Germany avoid the war?

Post by Turnagain »

A plausible scenario, Alonso, but begs the question of, if the holyhoax actually occurred as advertised, why would hoaxers have to stoop to such chicanery to "prove" it?

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Re: Why didn't Germany avoid the war?

Post by been-there »

Alonso wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:12 am
been-there wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 11:16 pm
it does seem to me to have reliable and trustworthy, verifiable sources
The whole thing seems quite contradictory. It wouldn't make sense for Churchill (or anybody) to talk in 1938 about "Germany's unforgivable crime before the second world war", WW2 hadn't happened yet.

Apart from that, the picture says the quote is from 1960, while the sources are allegedly from 1938 and 1948. Presenting a quote from 1938 as being from 1960 doesn't seem right.

Lastly, mixing together in the same picture a quote from 1938 and another from 1948 making them look like they were said in the same speech is misleading to say the least.

Don't get me wrong, once again I think your answer is very good. But that last picture doesn't seem right. My very uneducated guess is that there are many fake quotations circulating the internet that are used as bait for revisionists. A very cunning and effective trick to make someone who is telling the truth look like a liar is to bait them with fake evidence. It works like this: I'm a hoaxter, and I want to prove that you, a revisionist, are lying. Unfortunately you're telling the truth, so I cannot provide any evidence that you're lying because there is none. Instead, I pretend to be on your side and say "you're so right, actually, look, I just found another piece of evidence that further proves what you're saying". That sounds great, so you might easily decide that there is no need to be as critical and cautious with that alleged evidence as you would be with other pieces of data. After all, you know it supports the truth. So you just mix it together with all the evidence you have collected so far. However, I have deceived you, the alleged evidence I gave you is fake. Then my friend goes to you and claims that the so called holocaust actually happened. You confidently reply showing him all the evidence you got, including the fake evidence I planted in your collection. At that point my friend says "You're a liar! You're using fake evidence!", and he proves that you're using fake evidence indeed. The fact that you were using fake evidence automatically discredits all the evidence you were using, even if everything else was authentic, and now everybody thinks you're a fraud.
Good thinking.

Thanks for this.

Just for clarification. The quote allegedly said by Churchill to Lord Robert Boothby was written in a 2001 foreword to a republished book that originally was printed in 1938. The quote isn't supposed to have been said in 1938, nor to have appeared in that book. As you correctly pointed out, Churchill wouldn't be referring to "the second world war" a year before it had even started in 1938.

After further investigation, the foreword including the quote was written September 2001 by David M. Pidcock of 'The Institute For Rational Economics' in Sheffield. So I now agree with you, Alonso. The quote does not seem credible.

Pidcock is a Roman Catholic convert to Islam who has formed a group called 'the Islamic Party'. https://www.islamicparty.com/people/david.htm
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
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Re: Why didn't Germany avoid the war?

Post by Nessie »

There is also an issue with the quote;

"Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other."

Which is attributed to Major General Fuller above, but to Lord Halifax here;

https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthread.p ... tes-re-WW2

Where is the verifiable source for that quote?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Why didn't Germany avoid the war?

Post by Alonso »

been-there wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:20 am
So I now agree with you, Alonso. The quote does not seem credible.
I'm glad this has been clarified. I'm considering the idea of creating a thread with the very ambitious purpose of assessing the credibility of other similar quotes. If there is any truth at all in my uneducated guess that some of these have been deliberately planted to undermine the efforts of revisionists, such a thread might be very helpful for the revisionist cause. Even if they haven't been planted and are actually honest mistakes, I think that thread might still be useful. Of course I can just go ahead and start that thread without further discussion, but I think that getting some feedback beforehand might help to create an actually useful thread. So please, been-there and anyone else interested in the topic, share your thoughts on this.

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Re: Why didn't Germany avoid the war?

Post by Huntinger »

Alonso wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:14 pm
I'm glad this has been clarified. I'm considering the idea of creating a thread with the very ambitious purpose of assessing the credibility of other similar quotes.
viewtopic.php?p=170619#p170619


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