The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

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been-there
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Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

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Alonso wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:44 pm
been-there wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:14 pm
So far there have been 5,083 reported deaths wordwide RELATED to complications arising from infection with the Coronavirus.
So that is far, far less than the annual deaths from ordinary influenza!
This amount of Coronavirus fatalities is less than 1% of what is considered normal from the flu.
[It's 0.782% to 1.7%]
I don't think that comparison is meaningful. The influenza has existed around the world forever (centuries, millenia or something like that) with no isolation measure taken against it. The new virus has existed only for months, it's just starting to spread around the world, and huge prevention measure are being taken.
As I understand it there is no cure nor preventative treatment for any flu virus, whether ordinary or this new zoonotic variant. The only treatment is to go home, rest, drink fluids, keep warm, etc. The same applies to this SARS-CoV-2 virus. Hundreds of thousand get it, experience mild flu symptoms and recover. Just like ordinary flu. Many thousands don't, suffer complications and die. Just like with flu.
It's still just a flu pandemic.
Ordinary flu viruses don't get the mass-panic, mass-media treatment, not even when they are also pandemics. Because the medical profession believe they know what it is and how it will behave.
So... I believe it's the unknowing that is the distinguishing factor. Thus the response in my view is more to do with psychological issues than anything else.

Now of course we DO have to take extra precautions. Because we really do not know how this will progress. No-one does. But this isn't the thirteenth, seventeenth or 20th century. This isn't 1918!

Alonso wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:44 pm
However, it is clear that the media is constantly lying about this. The most obvious lie is the mortality rate. They constantly make headlines about scary mortality rates up to 8% or 9%, and they only tell us in a small footnote that those rates are for confirmed cases, which might be 10 or even 100 times less than actual cases, meaning that the actual mortality rate of this virus could easily be lower than the mortality rate of the flu. So yes, this is scaremongering.

There is one stat here that I don't understand, though. You say that the reported deaths are RELATED to the Coronavirus. Does it mean that they are including in the death toll deaths of people who were infected but actually died of something else, like a heart attack? If that's the case, it would mean that the actual mortality rate is even lower.
Well... Yes and no. Flu is the primary cause that affects pre-existing conditions, or frailties. So even if it is a heart attack or a pre-existing pulmonary condition that was the cause of death, it WAS the flu virus (corona or otherwise) that DID exacerbate it.
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they either cease being mistaken
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Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

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been-there wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:20 pm
even if it is a heart attack or a pulmonary cause of death, it WAS the flu virus (corona or otherwise) that DID exacerbate it.
That might or might not be the case. Let's say someone has cancer and he has one month to live no matter what. Then he gets the virus and dies after three weeks. The virus might or might not have caused his death (maybe he had an unrelated brain failure or what have you), but even if it did, it would be very misleading to report this death as being caused by the virus. So are this kind of deaths reported as having been caused by the virus?

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Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

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Alonso wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:34 pm
been-there wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:20 pm
even if it is a heart attack or a pulmonary cause of death, it WAS the flu virus (corona or otherwise) that DID exacerbate it.
That might or might not be the case. Let's say someone has cancer and he has one month to live no matter what. Then he gets the virus and dies after three weeks. The virus might or might not have caused his death (maybe he had an unrelated brain failure or what have you), but even if it did, it would be very misleading to report this death as being caused by the virus. So are these kind of deaths reported as having been caused by the virus?
Yes. Definitely that is happening.
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they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

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.
Here is one alternative and qualified viewpoint.
It is from Dr John Ioannidis Professor of Medicine, of Health Research and Policy and of Biomedical Data Science, at Stanford University School of Medicine. He is also a Professor of Statistics at Stanford University School of Humanities and Sciences. Plus he is director of the Stanford Prevention Research Centre, and co-director of the Meta-Research Innovation Centre at Stanford (METRICS). He is also the editor-in-chief of the European Journal of Clinical Investigation. He was chairman at the Department of Hygiene and Epidemiology, University of Ioannina School of Medicine as well as adjunct professor at Tufts University School of Medicine.

As a physician, scientist and author he has made contributions to evidence-based medicine, epidemiology, data science and clinical research. In addition, he pioneered the field of meta-research. He has shown that much of the published research does not meet good scientific standards of evidence.

Here is an excerpt from a newspaper article he wrote:
A fiasco in the making?

As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data

By JOHN P.A. IOANNIDIS | MARCH 17, 2020

Patients who have been tested for SARS-CoV-2 are disproportionately those with severe symptoms and bad outcomes. As most health systems have limited testing capacity, selection bias may even worsen in the near future.

The one situation where an entire, closed population was tested was the Diamond Princess cruise ship and its quarantine passengers. The case fatality rate there was 1.0%, but this was a largely elderly population, in which the death rate from Covid-19 is much higher.[…]

Could the Covid-19 case fatality rate be that low? No, some say, pointing to the high rate in elderly people. However, even some so-called mild or common-cold-type coronaviruses that have been known for decades can have case fatality rates as high as 8% when they infect elderly people in nursing homes.[…]

If we had not known about a new virus out there, and had not checked individuals with PCR tests, the number of total deaths due to “influenza-like illness” would not seem unusual this year. At most, we might have casually noted that flu this season seems to be a bit worse than average.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-f ... able-data/
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Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

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Alonso wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:34 pm
been-there wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:20 pm
even if it is a heart attack or a pulmonary cause of death, it WAS the flu virus (corona or otherwise) that DID exacerbate it.
That might or might not be the case. Let's say someone has cancer and he has one month to live no matter what. Then he gets the virus and dies after three weeks. The virus might or might not have caused his death (maybe he had an unrelated brain failure or what have you), but even if it did, it would be very misleading to report this death as being caused by the virus. So are this kind of deaths reported as having been caused by the virus?
The following is from Prof. Hendrik Streeck who is a German HIV researcher, epidemiologist and clinical trialist. He is professor of virology, and the director of the Institute of Virology and HIV Research, at Bonn University. He makes exactly the same point you have made above:
The new pathogen is not that dangerous, it is even less dangerous than Sars-1. The special thing is that Sars-CoV-2 replicates in the upper throat area and is therefore much more infectious because the virus jumps from throat to throat, so to speak. […]

You also have to take into account that the Sars-CoV-2 deaths in Germany were exclusively old people. In Heinsberg, for example, a 78-year-old man with previous illnesses died of heart failure, and that without Sars-2 lung involvement. Since he was infected, he naturally appears in the Covid 19 statistics. But the question is whether he would not have died anyway, even without Sars-2.

Interview in Frankfurter Allgemeine, 16th March 2020

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaf ... ageIndex_2
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

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Thank you BT; this is the reason why I started a similar thread. I felt a scam was somehow underway along with debauchery within this somewhere. Corona Virus is just a normal cold virus, some a flu; I suspect most of the testing just detects Corona and not Covid19. I know that some Governments have depleted their resources and taken huge loans in billions of dollars.
I suspect the media attention controlled by a minority is responsible for this misinformation. Where I live no one has died, only just normal cold symptoms and governments forced to get loans to pay for maintenance of infrastructure.


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Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

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Last edited by Scott on Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: YT formatting

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Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

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As soon as the Corona virus became the new disaster, Dany Shoham, a former Israeli military intelligence officer, was quick to point to China’s biowarfare program as a possible originator of the virus.

By now, with the exception of President Trump and his Pompeo character, not many are convinced that Covid-19 is a Chinese Virus (as Trump refers to it when he wants to annoy progressives). A criminal investigation would have to examine Chinese as well as Russian, British, French, German, etc. laboratories and their safety records. It should also verify whether Dany Shoham had any evidence for his assertion regarding China or whether he was attempting to divert attention from another possible suspect in this Corona affair.

During his first term as Israel’s leader, Mr Netanyahu authorised a risky attempt to assassinate the Palestinian rising star and Hamas leader, Mr. Khaled Meshaal in the Jordanian capital, Amman. Five Mossad agents, posing as Canadian tourists, were sent to Amman. They ambushed Mr Meshaal on a street corner and sprayed poison into his left ear and expected him to die within 48 hours.

But their plan went wrong. One of Meshaal’s bodyguards chased the two Mossad agents who had carried out the operation and, with the help of a passing Palestinian Liberation Army officer, managed to capture them.

Instead of escaping over the border as they had planned, the rest of the Mossad team was trapped in the Israeli embassy in Amman. Mr Netanyahu was left with no option other than to negotiate with King Hussein of Jordan and plead for his assassins’ return. The king, who was dying of cancer, drove a hard bargain. Israel had to supply immediately the antidote to the poison that was killing Mr Meshaal. Netanyahu also had to agree to release nine Jordanians and sixty-one Palestinian prisoners amongst them Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the spiritual leader of Hamas and at the time, Israel’s most hated foe.

But here is the astonishing piece of this saga. The poison used by Israel is a slow-acting but lethal poison that gradually shuts down the brain’s respiratory centre, leading to death. The doctor that revived Meshaal described his condition as respiratory oxygen deficiency. To date, it is not clear what type of agent was used by the Mossad against Meshaal, but a few facts are known. Israel employed a biological/chemical agent with a respiratory effect. Israel possessed the antidote to its lethal agent. Benjamin Netanyahu as Israeli PM, authorised the botched assassination and the usage of a biological/chemical weapon.


Israel is not a signatory to the Biological Weapons Convention. It is generally assumed that the Israel Institute for Biological Research in Ness Ziona develops vaccines and antidotes for chemical and biological warfare. In 2012 Haaretz wrote of the Ness Ziona laboratory that it’s an “institution that very rarely finds itself in the news, and when it does, it’s usually because of some controversy or other. According to Israeli sources, the institute develops pharmaceuticals, vaccinations, treatments and antibodies to protect Israelis from chemical (gas) or biological weapons. That’s along with its civilian research projects.” Haaretz continues, “according to foreign reports, it also develops chemical and biological weapons. One of these reports said institute scientists had developed the poison that was meant to have eliminated Hamas political leader Khaled Meshaal in the botched Mossad attack against him in Amman in 1997.”

Any detectives who examine the Ness Ziona Lab will have to figure out how the Israeli institute is already so advanced in the development of a Covid-19 vaccine. According to the Israeli press, a novel corona virus vaccine is already being tested at the institute.

Ness Ziona is not alone at the front of the Corona vaccine race. Migal, another Israeli company, announced at the end of February that it was almost ready with a vaccine. Detectives should ascertain whether Migal, like other laboratories around the world, is a safe environment and that it wasn’t in the Galilee laboratory that a tiny but vicious virus escaped its guardians.

Foreign Policy Magazine revealed three weeks ago that the Corona virus’ early appearance in Iran that sickened government and military leaders caused some Iranian officials to believe that the Coronavirus was part of an ‘American-Zionist biofare military campaign’ against their republic and its leaders.

I am not in any position to produce incriminating evidence against any person, institution or a state, it isn’t my job nor it is my wish to do so. I am a writer not a detective. Yet I maintain that evaluating the corona crisis as a crime may make those who plan to survive the pandemic feel a little safer in a world that long ago has lost its way.

~~ Gilad Atzmon
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

Post by Alonso »

Interesting article pointing, unsurprisingly, to the usual suspects. Still, it remains elusive what the purpose of all this is. As usual, the rule of thumb is cui prodest?, who stands to gain? But I still can't see clearly the answer to that question. Even if Israel has the vaccine, how do they benefit from crippling the world economy like this?

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Re: The "pure luck" concerning the new Corona virus??

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Alonso wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:52 pm
how do they benefit from crippling the world economy like this?
Many countries have spent Billions on subsidizing wages and propping up businesses due to lock down; the amount spent by respective governments is more than the tax earned for a year. To get the economy going again, the world wide economy will mean that finance will have to come from somewhere in the form of long term loans. It is interesting that China along with Russia was intending to break away from the dollar and the Western way of economics (stock exchange) and institute another method, just as National Socialist Germany was doing. Putin said many times Russia and China were forming their own economic system independent of the US dollar and of course Juden.

Whether it is planned or not will mean there is now a huge reliance on financiers who I suspect are Internationale Juden. Whether or not the Zionistic Israeli Government is part of this is open to debate.

cui bono...Internationale Juden


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