"Legitimate" NGOs that support immigrants

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Alonso
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"Legitimate" NGOs that support immigrants

Post by Alonso »

EDIT: In this thread we discuss the role in the world of NGOs whose purpose is to support immigrants. Unfortunately many NGOs pretend to have that purpose when their actual purpose is to serve the imperialistic interests of international capitalism (which can probably be simply named international Jewry). A prime example is Amnesty International, which pretends to defend human rights when its actual purpose is to promote imperialistic wars that grossly violate human rights (Lybia, Syria, etc.). Those organizations are not even NGOs, for they are very much controlled by governments. As the discussion progresses, we have inevitably mentioned that kind of so-called NGOs. Those so-called NGOs are a very interesting topic, but they are not the topic of this thread. The purpose of this thread is to discuss "legitimate" NGOs, i. e., those that are (or at least try to be) independent of governments interference, and whose genuine purpose is to support immigrants who live in dire conditions. Unfortunately my original post was not clear enough in that sense, so I'm adding this edit to clarify it.

Three months ago I joined a small Spanish NGO that supports immigrants who come to Spain. It does so in two ways: It supports directly the immigrants in their daily struggles, and it denounces the crimes and abuses committed by the Spanish government and others against immigrants. I like the group quite a lot, the people are great and they go to great lengths to help. But I often wonder whether all these efforts actually create a positive effect in the world, I have even considered that they might be counterproductive.

In a nutshell, I believe that human civilization is by nature a system based on slavery. A civilization without slavery is like a person without a head: It just cannot be. (Explaining why this is the case would take a while, I'll do it later if someone's interested). Throughout history slavery has adopted many forms. Nowadays its most clear expression is cheap labour markets, like Bangladesh, where millions of people are forced to choose between working for 20 cents an hour for a Spanish billionaire or starving.

It is only natural that people who live in those horrible conditions want to escape to countries like Spain. In order to stop them the Spanish government commits on a daily basis horrible violations of their human rights, which include murder, torture, rape, and others. Those crimes keep the number of immigrants who reach Spain each year in the thousands. I guess that without those crimes the numbers would soar to the millions. I know close to nothing about economy, but my guess is that the effect of millions of immigrants coming to Spain each year would be that the Spanish economy, social systems, etc., would collapse, and Spain itself would become a state of slaves for billionaires in other countries, much like Bangladesh is nowadays. Which wouldn't even help Bangladesh (or Algeria, or Nigeria), they would remain slave countries anyway.

My natural human compassion makes me want to help all these people in dire situations. I know that my modest work in this NGO has helped a bit to better the life conditions of some individuals who were (and to some degree still are) in desperate situations. However, I have the feeling that overall, in a global sense, this work hasn't actually improved the world, and it might actually made it even worse. I have the feeling that, at the end of the day, the only real effect of my actions is to make me feel better, but they don't necessarily have a positive net effect in the world.

Looking forward to feedback on this topic.
Last edited by Alonso on Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Turnagain
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Re: NGOs that support immigrants

Post by Turnagain »

I have to fight back the urge to rage uncontrollably at you and your well-meaning idiocy. Instead I'll simply post a link to a short video you should watch. www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGIE



Neither is it just the "poor Bangladeshis" who are invading ALL White Western countries or is that by accident. That discussion can wait on you viewing the video.

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been-there
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Re: NGOs that support immigrants

Post by been-there »

Alonso wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:58 pm
Three months ago I joined a small Spanish NGO that supports immigrants who come to Spain. It does so in two ways: It supports directly the immigrants in their daily struggles, and it denounces the crimes and abuses committed by the Spanish government and others against immigrants. I like the group quite a lot, the people are great and they go to great lengths to help. But I often wonder whether all these efforts actually create a positive effect in the world, I have even considered that they might be counterproductive.

...Nowadays its most clear expression is cheap labour markets, like Bangladesh, where millions of people are forced to choose between working for 20 cents an hour for a Spanish billionaire or starving.

...I guess that without those crimes the numbers would soar to the millions. I know close to nothing about economy, but my guess is that the effect of millions of immigrants coming to Spain each year would be that the Spanish economy, social systems, etc., would collapse, and Spain itself would become a state of slaves for billionaires in other countries, much like Bangladesh is nowadays. Which wouldn't even help Bangladesh (or Algeria, or Nigeria), they would remain slave countries anyway.

...I have the feeling that overall, in a global sense, this work hasn't actually improved the world, and it might actually made it even worse. I have the feeling that, at the end of the day, the only real effect of my actions is to make me feel better, but they don't necessarily have a positive net effect in the world.

Looking forward to feedback on this topic.
Before I give some feedback Alonso, I have a question: where are the immigrants you are helping coming from? Can you name the countries please.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Alonso
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Re: NGOs that support immigrants

Post by Alonso »

Turnagain wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:25 pm
your well-meaning idiocy
I usually ignore posts that include verbal abuse. I'll make an exception in this case because you posted a really good video. I won't do more exceptions, though, I'll ignore any other posts that include verbal abuse.

As I said, you posted a very good video. It summarizes very clearly what I already had in mind (even though I disagree with the conclusion it reaches). However, it doesn't tackle my main concern: Does my work make a change, however small it might be? If so, is that change positive or negative?
been-there wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:36 pm
Before I give some feedback Alonso, I have a question: where are the immigrants you are helping coming from? Can you name the countries please.
Sure. The actions in which I have personally participated so far are aimed at helping people from Algeria and Morocco. But that's just me. My NGO doesn't make distinctions, they help people in need coming from any country. In Spain the main sources of immigrants escaping poverty, violence, etc., are Morocco, Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela. They help people from all those countries and a lot more.

Turnagain
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Re: NGOs that support immigrants

Post by Turnagain »

It took 700 years for the Spaniards to boot the Moors out of Spain. Now here you are helping the Moslems/Moors (whatever) to invade your country once again. Way to go. Just effing brilliant.

Alonso
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Re: NGOs that support immigrants

Post by Alonso »

That doesn't make any sense. "Spaniard" is a modern concept, there was no Spain or Spaniards back then. The people who "booted the Moors" were the descendants of the barbaric Germanic tribes that invaded the Iberian peninsula in the fifth century. They had exactly the same right to be in Spain as the Arabs (full rights or none at all, depending on who you ask, I guess). For centuries these Germanic people invaded, murdered, enslaved, tortured and raped the Arabs that had hitherto been living peacefully in the Iberian peninsula. In 1492, specifically, the very far descendants of these Germanic people expelled the Arabs that had been living in Granada for eight centuries on the ridiculous grounds that some of their ancestors had been living there earlier. According to your logic I guess that the Romans of the XXI century should invade Spain and expel the 45 million Spanish currently living here on the grounds that their ancestors ruled here two thousand years ago. Which would be equally ridiculous, given that I and the rest of Spaniards have a mix of Celtic, Iberian, Roman, Germanic and Arab blood.

Turnagain
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Re: NGOs that support immigrants

Post by Turnagain »

Iberians, Spaniards, whatever. You seem to be proud of helping the Moslems (re) invade Europe. I wonder which side you would have fought on at Vienna. Sell your stinking religion along with its sharia and all the rest of its 7th century voodoo and pedophilia down the street, Alonso.

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Re: NGOs that support immigrants

Post by Alonso »

Turnagain wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:18 pm
You seem to be proud of helping the Moslems (re) invade Europe.
The last Muslim I helped is a paraplegic Algerian man who was sleeping on the streets until I hosted him in my house for a week. He cannot stand on his own feet, he's hardly going to invade anything.
Turnagain wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:18 pm
Sell your stinking religion along with its sharia and all the rest of its 7th century voodoo and pedophilia down the street, Alonso.
This sounds like it's meant as an insult, but I can hardly take it as one. I'm a Pantheist, which doesn't have much to do with anything you said. Regarding paedophilia, let me cite some verses from the Bible:
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites ... And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males ... And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones ... And Moses was wroth with the officers ... And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. (Numbers 31:1-18)
I know almost nothing about Islam, but I do know for a fact that the Christian god not only promotes paedophilia, but he actually commands his followers to practice. And, as you probably know, to this day many of his followers obey this command to the end of the line.

Now, if we're done with the religious hatred, I would appreciate it if we stayed on topic.

Turnagain
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Re: NGOs that support immigrants

Post by Turnagain »

Alonso wrote:
The last Muslim I helped is a paraplegic Algerian man who was sleeping on the streets until I hosted him in my house for a week. He cannot stand on his own feet, he's hardly going to invade anything.
Aww, ain't that sweet? So how did this paraplegic manage to stump his way from Algeria to Spain? Actually you sound more like a Jew trying to justify the overrunning of Europe by Moslem shitskins. Sell it down the street. No buyers here.

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Re: NGOs that support immigrants

Post by Scott »

Okay, that's enough.

Try to stick to the issues and arguments and avoid attacking the personalities.

Thank you.

:)

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
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