JFK, ISRAEL, MOSSAD, CIA

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montgomery2
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Re: JFK, ISRAEL, MOSSAD, CIA

Post by montgomery2 »

been-there wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:40 pm
montgomery2 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:05 pm
• That the cover-up conspiracy was conducted for a wide variety of motivations —both ostensibly "patriotic" and otherwise — including, but not limited to:
a) burying intelligence community connections to the assassination conspiracy;
b) protecting Organised Crime elements involved;
c) preventing hostilities between the United States and foreign nations (whether it be the Soviet Union or Castro's Cuba); and
d) resolving questions about the assassination in the public's mind, both here and abroad.
I can't make any sense of c). Is it a suggestion that other nations were involved? It doesn't mention Israel?
No, it is NOT suggesting that.
It is listing what are some of the main generally accepted reasons for the cover-up conspiracy. It is saying that one of these is that there was a cover-up to prevent hostilities between the United States and foreign nations (e.g. to prevent hostilities between the Soviet Union and Cuba).
Covering up that Cuba or the US were complicit in the murder is not his suggested theory. Israel being complicit is. You can deal with that inconvenience if you like.


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been-there
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Re: JFK, ISRAEL, MOSSAD, CIA

Post by been-there »

rollo the ganger wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:36 pm
Rollo the walker

In reading your posts the word "Phantasmagorical" keeps coming to mind. Have you read anything other than conspiracy novels regarding the Final Solution 'holocaust'? Any of the court historians' books? The Raul Hilberg volumes on Jew-genocide? The Yitzhak Arad and Yehuda Bauer Israeli Jewish perspective?

When they say the "Nazis" killed six million Jews, or were at least involved in it, I thought they meant the SS. Sounds to me like the "Nazis" was everyone in Germany and Poland along the railway routes and practically everywhere else from what you're saying. Who WASN'T involved?

I'll look at what you posted and try and respond but... whew... whoever was trying to kill Jews in these books would have had better odds just praying that lightning would strike every Jew and kill them. The man who plotted this genocide could only have been one person and one person only... Adie Schicklgruber!!! A part-JEW no less!!! :roll: :? :shock: .... :lol:
See any similarity in logic...?
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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been-there
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Re: JFK, ISRAEL, MOSSAD, CIA

Post by been-there »

montgomery2 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:59 pm
been-there wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:40 pm
montgomery2 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:05 pm
• That the cover-up conspiracy was conducted for a wide variety of motivations —both ostensibly "patriotic" and otherwise — including, but not limited to:
a) burying intelligence community connections to the assassination conspiracy;
b) protecting Organised Crime elements involved;
c) preventing hostilities between the United States and foreign nations (whether it be the Soviet Union or Castro's Cuba); and
d) resolving questions about the assassination in the public's mind, both here and abroad.
I can't make any sense of c). Is it a suggestion that other nations were involved? It doesn't mention Israel?
No, it is NOT suggesting that.
It is listing what are some of the main generally accepted reasons for the cover-up conspiracy. It is saying that one of these is that there was a cover-up to prevent hostilities between the United States and foreign nations (e.g. to prevent hostilities between the Soviet Union and Cuba).
Covering up that Cuba or the US were complicit in the murder is not his suggested theory. Israel being complicit is. You can deal with that inconvenience if you like.
You have not understood.
It is NOT suggesting Cuba was complicit.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

montgomery2
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Re: JFK, ISRAEL, MOSSAD, CIA

Post by montgomery2 »

been-there wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:32 pm
montgomery2 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:59 pm
been-there wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:40 pm
montgomery2 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:05 pm


I can't make any sense of c). Is it a suggestion that other nations were involved? It doesn't mention Israel?
No, it is NOT suggesting that.
It is listing what are some of the main generally accepted reasons for the cover-up conspiracy. It is saying that one of these is that there was a cover-up to prevent hostilities between the United States and foreign nations (e.g. to prevent hostilities between the Soviet Union and Cuba).
Covering up that Cuba or the US were complicit in the murder is not his suggested theory. Israel being complicit is. You can deal with that inconvenience if you like.
You have not understood.
It is NOT suggesting Cuba was complicit.
I didn't say it did. Forget it, it's over your head already.

rollo the ganger
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Re: JFK, ISRAEL, MOSSAD, CIA

Post by rollo the ganger »

Been There's post:

viewtopic.php?p=134457#p134457
Been There wrote:See any similarity in logic...?
All I see is a bumbling attempt at substitutive analogy that neither supports or furthers the hypothesis you, Been There, are trying to present to this forum. If anything it is a ridicule of your own argument Been There. The Holocaust narrative is ridiculous and YOUR pet hypothesis is ridiculous by the same measure by substitution as I have demonstrated.

Even though you protest that Lee Harvey Oswald is insignificant, irrelevant, and inconsequential to the assassination of JFK you present quite a hub-bub regarding Oswald in his alleged role in your pet conspiracy. In fact Oswald is mentioned more times by you than any other person involved in the JFK assassination.

It's quite obvious that the key to any theory regarding the assassination of JFK is the link to Lee Harvey Oswald for any hypothesis to be credible. And that is the question I'm asking. You need to make a comprehensive, logical, rational link of Lee Harvey Oswald to your conspiracy hypothesis. Spare me, and us, of your Gobblety-Gook Been There. Focus on Lee Harvey Oswald... make the connection Been There.

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Re: JFK, ISRAEL, MOSSAD, CIA

Post by been-there »

montgomery2 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:47 pm
been-there wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:32 pm
montgomery2 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:59 pm
been-there wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:40 pm
No, it is NOT suggesting that.
It is listing what are some of the main generally accepted reasons for the cover-up conspiracy. It is saying that one of these is that there was a cover-up to prevent hostilities between the United States and foreign nations (e.g. to prevent hostilities between the Soviet Union and Cuba).
Covering up that Cuba or the US were complicit in the murder is not his suggested theory. Israel being complicit is. You can deal with that inconvenience if you like.
You have not understood.
It is NOT suggesting Cuba was complicit.
I didn't say it did. Forget it, it's over your head already.
Then why write this: "Covering up that Cuba or the US were complicit in the murder is not his suggested theory."

US agencies WERE complicit. THEY attempted to make it look like Castro's Cuba and/or the Soviet Union MAY have been complicit.

And Piper wasn't "suggesting" that "Israel was complicit". You haven't understood. He stated categorically that they were more than complicit, they initiated and orchestrated the whole murder. And he provided evidence.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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been-there
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Re: JFK, ISRAEL, MOSSAD, CIA

Post by been-there »

rollo the ganger wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:45 pm
Been There's post:

viewtopic.php?p=134457#p134457
Been There wrote:See any similarity in logic...?
All I see is a bumbling attempt at substitutive analogy that neither supports or furthers the hypothesis you, Been There, are trying to present to this forum. If anything it is a ridicule of your own argument Been There. The Holocaust narrative is ridiculous and YOUR pet hypothesis is ridiculous by the same measure by substitution as I have demonstrated.

Even though you protest that Lee Harvey Oswald is insignificant, irrelevant, and inconsequential to the assassination of JFK you present quite a hub-bub regarding Oswald in his alleged role in your pet conspiracy. In fact Oswald is mentioned more times by you than any other person involved in the JFK assassination.

It's quite obvious that the key to any theory regarding the assassination of JFK is the link to Lee Harvey Oswald for any hypothesis to be credible. And that is the question I'm asking. You need to make a comprehensive, logical, rational link of Lee Harvey Oswald to your conspiracy hypothesis. Spare me, and us, of your Gobblety-Gook Been There. Focus on Lee Harvey Oswald... make the connection Been There.
Holy moly!!!

Yeah, I just mentioned Oswald many times to explain his 'patsy' role for YOUR benefit. :roll: And now you have asked me to mention him even more. If I do so, will you again accuse me of a contradiction for arguing he is irrelevant but for repeatedly discussing him? :?

Yeah, I agree “The Holocaust narrative is ridiculous”. Yet true-believers defend it with EXACTLY the same type of illogical argument that YOU are using to defend the equally ridiculous Warren Commission lone-assassin narrative.
That you couldn't understand that comparison, I think shows again that you are beyond reason on this topic.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

rollo the ganger
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Re: JFK, ISRAEL, MOSSAD, CIA

Post by rollo the ganger »

Been There, why do you embrace this book; "FINAL JUDGEMENT", by Michael Piper, so heartily? Why is this book any better than all the other JFK assassination conspiracy theory novels? What would you say is the most "revealing" fact, or factoid, that Mr. Piper presents which convinces you that Mr. Piper is correct in his assertions?
Been There wrote:Yeah, I just mentioned Oswald many times to explain his 'patsy' role for YOUR benefit. :roll: And now you have asked me to mention him even more. If I do so, will you again accuse me of a contradiction for arguing he is irrelevant but for repeatedly discussing him? :?
Whatever :roll:

Lee Harvey Oswald is the linchpin of ALL JFK assassination theories. Whether it be the conclusion of the Warren Commission, the HSCA, Michael Piper's theory or anyone else's theory. Even those theories that claim Oswald wasn't the shooter. To establish the credibility of any theory it must establish exactly what the connection of Oswald has to it. The rest is fluff. That is why we need to concentrate on the role of Oswald in discussing any theory on the JFK assassination.

Your comments here seem to suggest you don't wish to discuss Oswald. Maybe that's why?
Been There wrote:I've already expressed my opinion on Oswald's role. His role was as the patsy. Something he correctly understood only after his arrest.

But what ultimate difference does it make what Oswald's role was? There is in reality no need "make a connection to Lee Harvey Oswald". On the contrary. He was a designed red herring, a false trail to keep amateur investigators off the real culprits.

How does knowing what exactly he knew and how much he was involved with the plotters affect our understanding of the role of the initiators, orchestrators and key personnel of the assassination plot?

Forget making "a connection to Lee Harvey Oswald". Look at the facts of Jewish Zionist orchestration and involvement.

montgomery2
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Re: JFK, ISRAEL, MOSSAD, CIA

Post by montgomery2 »

been-there wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:32 am
montgomery2 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:47 pm
been-there wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:32 pm
montgomery2 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:59 pm

Covering up that Cuba or the US were complicit in the murder is not his suggested theory. Israel being complicit is. You can deal with that inconvenience if you like.
You have not understood.
It is NOT suggesting Cuba was complicit.
I didn't say it did. Forget it, it's over your head already.
Then why write this: "Covering up that Cuba or the US were complicit in the murder is not his suggested theory."
You've taken this far past the point of making any sense. You'll have to go back to my comment and try to sort it out for yourself.
US agencies WERE complicit. THEY attempted to make it look like Castro's Cuba and/or the Soviet Union MAY have been complicit.
I haven't read Piper's book but I believe that he's promoting the idea that Mossad was responsible. Why do you make the connection with Cuba or the S.U. in a discussion of his theory?
And Piper wasn't "suggesting" that "Israel was complicit". You haven't understood. He stated categorically that they were more than complicit, they initiated and orchestrated the whole murder. And he provided evidence.
For the sake of argument, being complicit and being more than complicit are the same. You can offer an explanation why not if you care to do that.

Fwiw, I can understand how his theory may have involved the US but I can't imagine how Cuba could be involved along with the Israelis? However, Cuba acting alone is a theory but not one I pay much attention to. And that's a different conversation altogether.

montgomery2
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Re: JFK, ISRAEL, MOSSAD, CIA

Post by montgomery2 »

rollo the ganger wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:47 am
Been There, why do you embrace this book; "FINAL JUDGEMENT", by Michael Piper, so heartily? Why is this book any better than all the other JFK assassination conspiracy theory novels? What would you say is the most "revealing" fact, or factoid, that Mr. Piper presents which convinces you that Mr. Piper is correct in his assertions?
A great question! And not that I'm of either opinion because I haven't read the book and won't online because it's not worth it to me. I'm still trying to get a hard copy. I might buy one from Amazon but not before I can determine the reason why it's not available. It could be because it's just complete nonsense or it could be that it's zionist censoring? So that's my interest in hearing the question answered and the reason why I follow the topic.

Thinking out loud here: How do we judge whether or not to accept people as credible? The best method I've been able to come up with is to examine what they have to say on other topics. If somebody promotes a 911 conspiracy theory of charges being set in the three WTC buildings then I've found it's a relaiable indication that person must be discarded as not reliable. That's the reason why I've written off Weird. And that's the reason why I 'call' anybody who tries to suggest conspiracy theories that are simply batshit crazy. And so which is Piper? Who are his allies and promoters? What else has he written?

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