The Exceptionally EVIL American Empire --and why not?

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Werd
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Re: The Exceptionally EVIL American Empire --and why not?

Post by Werd » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:20 am

montgomery2 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:39 pm
So could you humour me and say whether or not you are a 911 theorist who doesn't buy the official story of the airplanes doing all the damage?
Could you stop being disingenuous and pretending you don't know that I have already informed you that been-there IS a 9-11 skeptic like me?
viewtopic.php?p=133732#p133732
Stop being so full of shit. Or maybe you're just lazy and haven't read the first page in this topic LIKE I TOLD YOU TO, as it would indeed reveal what been-there thinks about 9-11.

We don't humour those who are disingenuous and/or lazy.

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Re: The Exceptionally EVIL American Empire --and why not?

Post by been-there » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:04 am

rollo the ganger wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:30 pm
Been There wrote:Has that been omitted from the released film along with the cavalcade stop, which was witnessed and initially testified by Police escort Hargis, and corroborated by many witnesses.
1. Bob Clark of ABC News, a trained newsman who was riding in the presidential motorcade reported that JFK’s limousine “came to an immediate stop.”
2. Jean Hill who stood to the immediate left of the limousine with her friend Mary Moorman during the assassination, in her Sheriff’s Dept. affidavit of 11/22/63, stated that the limousine stopped.
3. Hugh Betzner (standing behind the limousine during the assassination), in his Sheriff’s Dept. affidavit of 11/22/63, said twice that the limousine stopped during the assassination;
4. Roy Truly, Oswald’s boss at the TSBD, later stated that the limousine stopped during the assassination;
5. DPD officer Bobby W. Hargis — riding escort to the immediate left rear of the limousine — stated that the limousine stopped during the assassination (previously presented);
6. Bill Newman (standing to the immediate right of the limousine during the assassination with his wife and two children) has repeatedly and consistently recalled that there was a definite car stop by the limousine during the assassination.
And yet... neither the Nix film, the Muchmore film, as well as the Zapruder film shows the limousine stopping.

"BEST EVIDENCE" Been There.
The Muchmore film ends at the point the stop is alleged to have occurred. So false logic 1.

The Nix film was returned "altered" according to Orville Nix himself. So 'begging the question' fallacious logic 2.

The Zapruder film was returned "altered" with frames missing according to Abraham Zapruder himself. That was confirmed by the CiA operative Dino Brugioni who made stills from the original, unaltered film on the evening of Nov 22nd. So 'begging the question' fallacious logic 3.

You need to apply logic here.
The premise is that the Nix and Zapruder films have had frames removed and those remaining have been altered. Brugioni specifically stated that frames are missing at the head shot part of the film. That would include the multiple witnessed temporary limo stop.
And that could explain why after the stop there are no frames of Chaney speeding ahead, as he stated.

So to then refer to those allegedly manipulated, publically-released film copies as proof that there was no stop is quite literally stupid.
Exactly as you arguing that you see no missing frames was extremely stupid.

Its equivalent to true-believer Christians arguing that the Bible IS the Word of God because it says so in the Bible.
Do you see?

It is circular, self-referential, fallacious logic.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: The Exceptionally EVIL American Empire --and why not?

Post by rollo the ganger » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:14 am

It's easy enough for you to use the rhetorical device to say the films were "altered" as a sweeping cover all,
blanket reason for your argument and then leave it at that. Simple, safe, stupid.

What is incumbent upon you, since you are the one proposing this scenario, is to show where in the films these "alterations" were performed.

Of course THAT you won't do.

But that's okay. There is plenty of evidence that the JFK limo did not stop. There IS an explanation as to why people may have THOUGHT they saw the limo stop or even simply slow down. I've brought it up before and you've simply ignored it Been There.

Getting back to Ofc. Chaney, the existing single photographs themselves, on Elm Street at least, show that he did NOT proceed ahead of JFK at any time.

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Re: The Exceptionally EVIL American Empire --and why not?

Post by been-there » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:32 am

rollo the ganger wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:14 am
It's easy enough for you to use the rhetorical device to say the films were "altered" as a sweeping cover all, blanket reason for your argument and then leave it at that. Simple, safe...
Its not a rhetorical device. Its actual statements by the few people who saw the original, unaltered film. And its statements corroborated by actual witnesses who saw that part of the Dallas motorcade from close quarters such as Jean Hill, James Chaney, Hargis, etc., etc.
To wave all that away as a 'rhetorical device' because it refutes your current belief is 'denial'. You are in denial.

rollo the ganger wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:14 am
What is incumbent upon you, since you are the one proposing this scenario, is to show where in the films these "alterations" were performed.
Of course THAT you won't do.
:roll: But I have JUST DONE EXACTLY THAT. And I have done it repeatedly. I just reposted a link to one more detailed reply on EXACTLY THAT to Montgomery. You are filtering that out.
This refusal to take in anything that contradicts what you already believe is a classic sign of cognitive dissonance.

The head shot part of the Z film has missing frames.
The alleged car stopping has been removed.
Zapruder said he filmed the whole journey of the motorcade including the driver mistakenly going straight ahead before turning onto Elm Street. So that also has been removed
Who knows precisely what else was removed. Its been removed, you idiot.
Its like the US demanding Saddam show them where his destroyed WMD was hidden. Your idiot politicians duped the whole world into expecting him to show proof of something he no longer had. You can't prove a negative like that. Can you really not understand that? What are you expecting? Gaps in the film? :roll:
rollo the ganger wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:14 am
But that's okay. There is plenty of evidence that the JFK limo did not stop. There IS an explanation as to why people may have THOUGHT they saw the limo stop or even simply slow down. I've brought it up before and you've simply ignored it Been There.
More denial.
All we have is conflicting testimony, i.e. conflicting anecdotal evidence. The film would have proved it either way and that has been altered accoeding to the guys who recorded it. You have to explain THAT.
rollo the ganger wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:14 am
Getting back to Ofc. Chaney, the existing single photographs themselves, on Elm Street at least, show that he did NOT proceed ahead of JFK at any time.
I'm quite prepared to believe that. But here again you are demonstrating an illogical belief. Single frame photographs do not show what happened before nor after they were taken. OBVIOUSLY it is physically possible that Chaney could have sped up after the Phil Willis photo to be level with JFK as the sixth Altgen photo suggests. Only a person clinging illogically and stubbornly to a cherished belief would categorically rule out that possibility as a physical impossibility. So again you are showing you are in denial of reality.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: The Exceptionally EVIL American Empire --and why not?

Post by rollo the ganger » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:10 pm

Your argument goes like this Been There to any "BEST EVIDENCE", the photographs and films provided, to refute your hypothesis:

The Zapruder Film.
Been There: "Oh, that was all altered."

The Nix Film.
Been There: "Oh, that was all altered."

The Muchmore Film.
Been There: "Oh, that was altered."

The Bronson Film:
Been There: "Oh, that was altered."

The Daniels Film:
Been There: "Oh, that was altered."

ALL photographs other than Altgens #6.
Been There: "Oh, that was altered."

Et Cetera... Et Cetera... Et Cetera... :roll:

Quite a pattern here. Been There, other than the Altgens #6 photo which you already stated was NOT altered, (or have you changed your story?) are there any other films and or photos regarding the JFK assassination that you would say was NOT altered?

Here's a list of the films at least. Which ones are "altered" and which ones are not Been There?

1. Zapruder
2. Nix
3. Muchmore
4. Bronson
5. Hughes
6. Bell
7. Towner
8. Paschall
9. Darnell
10. Jeffries
11. Wiegman
12. Mentesana
13. Dorman
14. Martin
15. Daniels

Then we have a variety of photographs. Pick one. Maybe Been There can show us which one's relevant to the JFK assassination are NOT altered?

ALL these films and photographs would have had to have been "altered" in order to prevent any overlap revealing any discrepancies between the others.

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Re: The Exceptionally EVIL American Empire --and why not?

Post by montgomery2 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:47 pm

rollo the ganger wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:10 pm
Your argument goes like this Been There to any "BEST EVIDENCE", the photographs and films provided, to refute your hypothesis:
You should take into account that been-there is a 911 conspiracy theorist and so anything he says is highly questionable. I hope you aren't on too but if so then you are on equal footing with about as much credibility.

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Re: The Exceptionally EVIL American Empire --and why not?

Post by Werd » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:59 pm

montgomery2 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:47 pm
You should take into account that been-there is a 911 conspiracy theorist and so anything he says is highly questionable.
Which according to your logic is his holocaust revisionism.

Oh shit. I just refuted holocaust revisionism. I guess Germar Rudolf better pack up his publishing house and stop being a PhD level trained chemist. A few untrained lay revisionists' beliefs in a 9-11 conspiracy wipe out all of the University level training Germar used to write his book THE RUDOLF REPORT to refute the gas chamber hoax. :lol:

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Re: The Exceptionally EVIL American Empire --and why not?

Post by montgomery2 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:11 pm

Werd wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:59 pm
montgomery2 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:47 pm
You should take into account that been-there is a 911 conspiracy theorist and so anything he says is highly questionable.
Which according to your logic is his holocaust revisionism.

Oh shit. I just refuted holocaust revisionism. I guess Germar Rudolf better pack up his publishing house and stop being a PhD level trained chemist. A few untrained lay revisionists' beliefs in a 9-11 conspiracy wipe out all of the University level training Germar used to write his book THE RUDOLF REPORT to refute the gas chamber hoax. :lol:
You're not getting the concept Werd and so you go off on Rudolf not being credible, which is not logical. The simple concept you need to try to grasp is that people who promote nonsense such as 911 conspiracy theories, lose credibility. And that should be avoided. It's quite unfortunate that you are one of them, at least for you anyway.

On the bright side for you, you are running away from it and so you might be able to put that nonsense behind you in time. Maybe?

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Re: The Exceptionally EVIL American Empire --and why not?

Post by Werd » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:12 pm

montgomery2 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:11 pm
Werd wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:59 pm
montgomery2 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:47 pm
You should take into account that been-there is a 911 conspiracy theorist and so anything he says is highly questionable.
Which according to your logic is his holocaust revisionism.

Oh shit. I just refuted holocaust revisionism. I guess Germar Rudolf better pack up his publishing house and stop being a PhD level trained chemist. A few untrained lay revisionists' beliefs in a 9-11 conspiracy wipe out all of the University level training Germar used to write his book THE RUDOLF REPORT to refute the gas chamber hoax. :lol:
so you go off on Rudolf not being credible, which is not logical.
You're the one who said that because of been-there's 9-11 beliefs, anything he says is highly questionable. Since he does revisionism is accurate, that means according to you, revisionism is highly questionable. If you disagree revisionism is highly questionable, THEN YOU HAVE JUST DISOWNED YOUR PREVIOUS ARGUMENT.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

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Re: The Exceptionally EVIL American Empire --and why not?

Post by Werd » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:18 pm

montgomery2 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:11 pm
911 conspiracy theories...
you are running away from it...
Anytime, Monty.
viewtopic.php?p=133865#p133865

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