heroes of Charlottesville

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Nessie
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Re: heroes of Charlottesville

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:24 am
"EU says member states can start deporting refugees and migrants back to Greece from March.
So they were once in Greece? And ended up somewhere else? I guess this refutes your earlier claim that refugees and migrants only were allowed to be in one country because they never had free range of movement within the EU.

"The recent refugees have not got freedom of movement in the EU. They only get granted refugee status in one EU country." - Link.

The rest of your stupid shit is being moved to the other topic.
The problem was there were so many migrants and refugees that initially no state could cope and physically stop them. Those people were also not cooperating, they were ignoring the EU rules and they were heading for their preferred countries, such as Germany. Greece is the first member state on the journey. which has now been made much harder to do as border controls went back up.

You clearly have no understanding of what has happened.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.


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Re: heroes of Charlottesville

Post by Werd »

I never denied Greece was the gateway. But it LITERALLY MEANS they were in another country, and probably a few more before they go to where they were supposed to go be it Germany, Sweden, whatever. I mean, you do know this right? You do know geography right? You know you should choose your words more carefully right?

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Nessie
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Re: heroes of Charlottesville

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:48 am
I never denied Greece was the gateway. But it LITERALLY MEANS they were in another country, and probably a few more before they go to where they were supposed to go be it Germany, Sweden, whatever. I mean, you do know this right? You do know geography right? You know you should choose your words more carefully right?
That they moved through various countries does not mean they had the right or EU permission to go as they pleased. Your ignorance of that is nothing to do with how I chose my words, it is all to do with your inability to check all facts and sides of the argument. You love CTs and you only believe opinions which suggest the EU is a controlling force subjecting member states to a Muslim rape epidemic. Facts are, the member states control the EU, the rules have changed and Muslims who do disproportionately commit more crime are being arrested and convicted. Your fantasy liberals never existed.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: heroes of Charlottesville

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:02 am
Werd wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:48 am
I never denied Greece was the gateway. But it LITERALLY MEANS they were in another country, and probably a few more before they go to where they were supposed to go be it Germany, Sweden, whatever. I mean, you do know this right? You do know geography right? You know you should choose your words more carefully right?
That they moved through various countries does not mean they had the right or EU permission to go as they pleased.
So if the Mediterranean area of Italy and Greece was the entry point of the Muslims into Europe, and different Muslims had different countries to take them, how would those politicians in the EU collective in Brussels expect these immigrants to get to those countries if not through Greece? Just magically appear in their respective countries of destination? :lol:
Facts are, the member states control the EU
Oh, is that why an EU diplomat can threaten Poland and Hungary and the Czechs?

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Nessie
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Re: heroes of Charlottesville

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:07 am
Nessie wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:02 am
Werd wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:48 am
I never denied Greece was the gateway. But it LITERALLY MEANS they were in another country, and probably a few more before they go to where they were supposed to go be it Germany, Sweden, whatever. I mean, you do know this right? You do know geography right? You know you should choose your words more carefully right?
That they moved through various countries does not mean they had the right or EU permission to go as they pleased.
So if the Mediterranean area of Italy and Greece was the entry point of the Muslims into Europe, and different Muslims had different countries to take them, how would those politicians in the EU collective in Brussels expect these immigrants to get to those countries if not through Greece? Just magically appear in their respective countries of destination? :lol:
The most recent are being sent back to those two countries for processing. The rest remain where they are for processing.
Facts are, the member states control the EU
Oh, is that why an EU diplomat can threaten Poland and Hungary and the Czechs?
They joined an organisation with rules and that organisation warned them they were breaching the rules. The member countries then reacted by CHANGING THE RULES.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: heroes of Charlottesville

Post by Werd »

Can you show me where this 2015 treaty was overthrown exactly?

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Re: heroes of Charlottesville

Post by permanent_denial »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:04 am
... as Chancellor Angela Merkel seeks to win back conservative voters before elections in September.
...
Well, you certainly don't have to be a genius to foretell what will happen pretty much as soon as the votes are in, assuming her efforts are successful.
The a Wizarding World of Exterminationism...
------------------------
Cremated remains of HOW MANY CORPSES (alternatively give volume or mass of cremated remains of individually identified analysis not given) has been unearthed from the three stated locations (AR camps) and definitively identified by scientific forensic analysis to be of human origin?
Nessie: NONE
------------------------
creative1: ALL conspiracies are bullshit.

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Nessie
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Re: heroes of Charlottesville

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:31 am
Can you show me where this 2015 treaty was overthrown exactly?
I already did here;

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3018&start=240#p113110

as individual countries reacted and decided what was appropriate for them. The treaty is probably still in place, but it is being ignored as events over took the EU. A brief history for you.

In 1985 the Schengen Agreement ended border controls, visa requirements and passport checks, to speed and cheapen international commerce and travel. Over the years the area expanded and includes no EU countries, such as Switzerland and Norway. The UK opted out.

In 2015 the migrant crisis started, as there was a mass exodus from countries such as Libya and Syria as they collapsed during the Arab Uprisings and from other countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan as people left the years of fighting.

Schengen never anticipated its open borders would ever be faced with such a migration. In 2015 the initial attitude was to welcome the refugees. But as their numbers grew and grew, it became obvious that was not going to work and so various countries, starting in the Balkans and Bulgaria, put fences and border controls back up. Other countries cancelled agreements to take refugees, imposed conditions and by 2017 Schengen and earlier refugee agreements have been abandoned.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: heroes of Charlottesville

Post by been-there »

Should Washington and Jefferson monuments [also] come down?
By Jude Sheerin • BBC News, Washington • 18 August 2017

President Donald Trump's argument that the removal of Confederate statues is a slippery slope to changing history has recharged the perennial debate about America's tormented racial legacy.
On Tuesday, regarding the rebel general's monument that was a flashpoint for last Saturday's violent rally in Virginia he asked reporters:
"So this week it's Robert E Lee. I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after?"

Let's put aside for a moment the irony that Lee may well have supported Charlottesville's plans to remove his bronze likeness, given that he urged the country to "obliterate the marks of civil strife" and refrain from erecting such monuments.
As President Trump pointed out, George Washington was a slaveholder.
So might the stone obelisk dedicated to the father of the nation, looming over the heart of his eponymous capital city, be the next battleground in the US culture wars?
Or even Mount Rushmore?

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Washington conceded the system of human bondage that underpinned the economy of 18th Century Virginia was a "wicked, cruel and unnatural trade".
He was the only founding father and commander-in-chief to liberate his slaves - he owned more than 300 - when he died.

But as Ron Chernow's magisterial biography Washington: A Life makes clear, while he lived, the nation's first president extracted his pound of flesh from those whom he preferred to call his "servants", or "family".
Washington saw himself as a benevolent master, but he did not tolerate suspected shirkers on his farm, even when they were pregnant, elderly or crippled.

He once scolded a slave who pleaded that he could not work because his arm was in a sling.
As Chernow writes, Washington picked up a rake and demonstrated how to use it with one arm.
"If you use your hand to eat," he said, "why can't you use it to work?"

He was not averse to shipping refractory slaves to the West Indies, such as one man named Waggoner Jack, where the tropical climate and relentless toil in sugarcane brakes tended to abbreviate life expectancy.

"There are few Negroes who will work unless there be a constant eye on them," Washington advised one overseer, warning of their "idleness and deceit" unless treated firmly.

Washington wholly approved in 1793 when one of his estate managers, Anthony Whitting, whipped a slave named Charlotte. Martha, the president's wife, had deemed her to be "indolent".
Washington wrote, "Your treatment of Charlotte was very proper, and if she or any other of the servants will not do their duty by fair means, or are impertinent, correction (as the only alternative) must be administered."

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Washington badgered Whitting to keep another slave named Gunner hard at work to "continue throwing up brick earth". Gunner was 83 years old.

With his Mount Vernon plantation creaking under financial pressure owing to his long absences serving the country, Washington would fire off angry letters to his overseers insisting on greater crop productivity.
Given these reprimands it is perhaps hardly surprising that another of his estate managers, Hiland Crow, was notorious for brutally flogging slaves.

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In early 1788 the Potomac river froze over for five weeks, but even with nine inches of snow on the ground, Washington did not spare them from gruelling outdoor labour.
He sent the female slaves to dig up tree stumps from a frozen swamp.
During this Arctic snap, Washington ventured to ride out and inspect his farms, but noted in his diary that, "finding the cold disagreeable I returned".

When some of his slaves absconded during the Revolutionary War to find protection - humiliatingly, for him - with the enemy, Washington did not let up in his efforts to reclaim what he saw as his property.

One internal British memo portrayed him after victory as demanding the runaways be returned "with all the grossness and ferocity of a captain of banditti". The British refused.
Whenever George and Martha's bondmen and women did flee, the first couple seemed to regard them as disloyal ingrates.
In one runaway notice Washington posted in a newspaper, he wrote that a slave named Caesar had escaped "without any cause whatever".
That these enslaved human beings might thirst for freedom, or even the opportunity to learn to read and write, did not seem to occur to him.

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Professor Joseph Ellis, author of American Sphinx: The Character of Thomas Jefferson, says of the founding fathers:
“They could imagine a nation-sized republic, which nobody else had ever done before.
They could imagine the separation of church and state, which nobody else had ever done before.
They could imagine a government based on checks and balances that prohibit any form of dictatorship at the presidential level. Nobody had ever done that before.
They could imagine power flowing from the people upwards, rather than from God downward.
All those unbelievable acts of imagination. The most creative political group in American history. We'll never replicate that.
But they could not imagine a biracial society.”

Jefferson, as every American schoolchild knows, is the nation's third president, and a genius political theoretician who penned arguably the five most important words in modern history - "all men are created equal" - in the 1776 Declaration of Independence.
He also owned up to 140 slaves.
A bon vivant who lived in luxury at a palatial Virginia estate, Jefferson knew America's original sin was a "depravity", as he described it.
But his statements about black people are rarely taught in classrooms today.
Here are some Jefferson quotes that visitors will not find on his memorial, a Roman pantheon-style temple to liberty where the

To his friend, French social reformer the Duc de La Rochefoucauld-Liancourt, Jefferson confided that he envisaged eventual manumission to entail "exporting to a distance the whole black race".
The duke wrote: "He [Jefferson] bases his opinion on the certain danger… of seeing blood mixed without means of preventing it".
And yet Jefferson, historians say, fathered up to six children by one of his mixed-race slaves, Sally Hemings.

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In his book Notes on the State of Virginia, he prophesied a race war in America and "convulsions which will probably never end but on the extermination of the one or the other race".
Jefferson also opined in this work that black people's "unfortunate difference of colour" made them less beautiful than whites.
"They are more ardent after their female, but love seems with them to be more an eager desire, than a tender delicate mixture of sentiment and sensation.
"Their griefs are transient… in reason much inferior."
And so on.

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Two of Thomas Jefferson's slaves Lilly and Barnaby, had a child Lucy (born 1811) shown above working as a nanny. Jefferson sold their daughter at a public auction at Monticello in January 1827.

Professor Ellis believes a plaque should be put up at the Jefferson Memorial to correct the record and admit some of the Declaration author's less savoury statements.
"Jefferson embodies the inherent contradictions, a kind of self-deception, that co-exists in us, too," the biographer said.
"Given the relationship with Hemings, the fact that he refused to take a leadership position on ending slavery because of his fear of miscegenation, it makes his hypocrisy even more dramatic. He's got slaves who are his children serving him at dinner. But he doesn't seem to find that troubling. It's mind-boggling."

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"Racism is a chromosome in the DNA of the United States," Professor Ellis added. "It's like cancer. It ain't never gonna be cured."

Should Americans therefore disavow these founding fathers as scoundrels and national embarrassments, or accept them as men of their time, demigods with feet of clay, who bore their imperfections even as they sought to steer their country beyond them?

What actually is the difference between monuments to the founding fathers and Confederate leaders?
Dr Clarence Jones — the African-American speechwriter who helped civil rights legend Dr Martin Luther King Jr craft his 1963 "I Have a Dream" address, explains.
He says: "Sure, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. There was no question they were morally compromised in their effort to fashion together this new country, a republic, based on the principles and precepts enshrined in the Declaration of Independence. But neither of those two persons led the nation in treasonous insurrection to overthrow the government they had formed in order to preserve the institution of slavery. Period. On the contrary, they devoted their life to saving and founding this country."

He says that commemorating the valour of the Confederacy is just as wrong as celebrating the soldiers of the Third Reich.
"What Charlottesville tells us is, it's no longer possible for the United States to ignore this unresolved issue of reconciliation over slavery," said Dr Jones.
"Trump missed an extraordinary opportunity - and he still has it - of exercising the leadership of reconciler and healer-in-chief for the nation today."

Washington and Jefferson are not the only American historical titans who can seem diminished when viewed through the lens of present-day values.
Take Abraham Lincoln, the Great Emancipator and Civil War leader who destroyed the South's slavocracy.
He is immortalised in another neo-classical shrine on the National Mall.
But as Hofstra University history professor Alan Singer points out, the nation's 16th president espoused racist opinions as his political soul evolved.
He is quoted as saying to applause at a debate at Charleston, Illinois, during an 1858 Senate election campaign: "There is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality."

The Republican leader is also recorded as having tried to persuade a black delegation in 1862 that African-Americans should self-deport and colonise somewhere like Central America, arguing that it would be "extremely selfish" if they refused.

"The United States needs to have a general evaluation of who we are as a nation, so we can come to terms with our present by understanding our past," says Professor Singer.
"Nations need heroes to define who we are, to help us see ourselves in a better light.
"And the United States has heroes. But we tend not to see the warts.
"We tend to try to erase the parts we don't want to see. And this is a time when we have to look."
Sometimes, though, it can be hard to look.

President Lyndon Baines Johnson is lionised as the signer of the 1964 Civil Rights Act — one of the greatest legislative accomplishments of any US administration - which outlawed discrimination.
However, LBJ is also known to have frequently tossed racial slurs around the cloakrooms of the US Senate, according to his biographer Robert Caro.
Johnson nicknamed an earlier iteration of the landmark act for which he is known as "the nigger bill".
In his memoir, Capitol Hill in Black and White, African-American chauffeur Robert Parker relates a disturbing interaction while he was driving for the Texan.
Johnson, he recalls, asked him whether he objected to being called "nigger".
When Parker replied that he would rather be addressed by his own name, Johnson allegedly retorted: "As long as you are black, and you're gonna be black till the day you die, no one's gonna call you by your goddamn name.
"So no matter what you are called, nigger, you just let it roll off your back like water, and you'll make it. Just pretend you're a goddamn piece of furniture."

But Dr Jones believes that LBJ, for all his flaws, understood that his duty as chief magistrate of the United States was to lead his country towards sunlit uplands of a more perfect union, to achieve the unfulfilled promise of its founding.
. . .

When is it OK to pull down statues?
BBC News.
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Re: heroes of Charlottesville

Post by Werd »

How many more liberals? How many more Europeans have to be raped and murdered for the religion of multi culturalism?

Migrants assault polish man and rape his wife in Italy.
https://wiadomosci.wp.pl/we-wloszech-zg ... 051764353a
We Włoszech zgwałcono Polkę na oczach jej chłopaka
Czterech napastników najprawdopodobniej afrykańskiego pochodzenia zgwałciło Polkę nocą na plaży we włoskim Rimini. Mężczyznę dotkliwie pobito, a następnie na jego oczach doszło do wielokrotnego gwałtu kobiety.

Włoskie media podały, że młode polskie małżeństwo było na wakacjach w Rimini z grupą rodaków. Ostatnią noc wakacji 26-latkowie spędzali na plaży, gdzie zostali napadnięci przez czterech mężczyzn. Napastnicy zgwałcili kobietę, a mężczyznę kilka razy uderzyli w głowę, w wyniku czego ten stracił przytomność. Oboje zostali też ograbieni.

Po tym, jak grupa mężczyzn odeszła, zakrwawioną i będącą w szoku parę zauważyli przechodnie, którzy wezwali policję. Kobietę przewieziono do szpitala.

Według prasy napastnikami byli prawdopodobnie cudzoziemcy pochodzący z północnej Afryki.

Terroryzm w Europie


We Włoszech zgwałcono Polkę na oczach jej chłopaka
Czterech napastników najprawdopodobniej afrykańskiego pochodzenia zgwałciło Polkę nocą na plaży we włoskim Rimini. Mężczyznę dotkliwie pobito, a następnie na jego oczach doszło do wielokrotnego gwałtu kobiety.
Policję wezwali przechodnie
Policję wezwali przechodnie (Reuters)

Włoskie media podały, że młode polskie małżeństwo było na wakacjach w Rimini z grupą rodaków. Ostatnią noc wakacji 26-latkowie spędzali na plaży, gdzie zostali napadnięci przez czterech mężczyzn. Napastnicy zgwałcili kobietę, a mężczyznę kilka razy uderzyli w głowę, w wyniku czego ten stracił przytomność. Oboje zostali też ograbieni.

Po tym, jak grupa mężczyzn odeszła, zakrwawioną i będącą w szoku parę zauważyli przechodnie, którzy wezwali policję. Kobietę przewieziono do szpitala.
wp

Według prasy napastnikami byli prawdopodobnie cudzoziemcy pochodzący z północnej Afryki.

Terroryzm w Europie

Konsulat RP w Mediolanie poinformował, że zajmuje się sprawą napadniętych Polaków i że będą mieli zapewnioną wszelką opiekę. Władze Rimini w wydanym oświadczeniu wyraziły głębokie oburzenie tym, co się stało, podkreślając, że doszło tam do "brutalnego i bestialskiego ataku" oraz "aktu okrutnej agresji". Wyraziły pełną solidarność z parą oraz zadeklarowały udzielenie im wszelkiej pomocy i wsparcia.

"Zwracamy się z apelem do obywateli, by współpracowali z siłami porządkowymi informując o każdym elemencie, który może być przydatny w śledztwie" - wezwały władze popularnej miejscowości nad Adriatykiem.

Szef tamtejszej policji Maurizio Improta powiedział włoskiej agencji prasowej ANSA, że sprawcy byli zapewne pod wpływem alkoholu i narkotyków.
Napad na polskich turystów komentują włoscy politycy

Senator rządzącej Partii Demokratycznej Francesca Puglisi oświadczyła, że w Rimini doszło do "oburzającego, brutalnego ataku". Polityk zaapelowała do sił porządkowych, by uczyniły wszystko, aby zapewnić postawienie sprawców przed wymiarem sprawiedliwości.

Lider prawicowej Ligi Północnej Matteo Salvini powiedział: "Jeśli złapią sprawców, więzienie nie wystarczy. Powtarzam od dawna, potrzebna jest chemiczna kastracja".

Giorgia Meloni z prawicowego ugrupowania Bracia Włoch uznała, że kraj przypomina "najgorsze fawele w Ameryce Południowej". Jej zdaniem to rezultat nieobecności państwa i bezkarności przestępców oraz braku porządku. Meloni wyraziła solidarność z polskimi turystami.

Policja apeluje do mieszkańców o udzielenie wszelkich informacji, które mogą pomóc w ujęciu sprawców.
Internet translation.
In Italy, a Polish woman was raped in front of her boyfriend

The four most likely African attackers raped a Pole at night on the beach in Italy's Rimini. The man was severely beaten and then there was a woman's multiple rapes.

Italian media reported that a young Polish couple were on holiday in Rimini with a group of compatriots. The last night of the 26-year-olds vacation spent on the beach, where they were assaulted by four men. The attackers raped the woman and the man hit the head several times, resulting in the unconsciousness. Both were also robbed.

After the group of men left, a bloody and shocked pair noticed passers-by who called the police. The woman was taken to the hospital.

According to the press, strikers were probably foreigners from northern Africa.

Terrorism in Europe.

The Consulate of the Republic of Poland in Milan reported that he was dealing with the attack of Poles and that they would be provided with all care. The Rimini authorities in their statement expressed deep indignation at what had happened, stressing that there had been a "brutal and beastly attack" and "act of cruel aggression". They expressed full solidarity with the couple and declared all their help and support.

"We are appealing to citizens to work with the police forces to inform each and every element that may be of use in the investigation," the authorities told a popular destination on the Adriatic.

Police chief Maurizio Improta told Italian news agency ANSA that the perpetrators were probably under the influence of alcohol and drugs.
Italian politicians are attacking Polish tourists

Senator Francesca Puglisi, the ruling Democratic Party, said that Rimini had "an outrageous, violent attack". The politician appealed to the ordering authorities to do everything to ensure the perpetrators were brought to justice.

Right-wing leader of the Northern League Matteo Salvini said: "If they catch the perpetrators, the prison is not enough.

Giorgia Meloni of the right-wing group of Friars of Italy recognized that the country resembles "the worst fawele in South America." In her opinion, this is the result of the absence of the state and the impunity of criminals and the lack of order. Meloni expressed her solidarity with Polish tourists.

The police appeals to residents to provide any information that may help [locate] the perpetrator

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