Kristallnacht

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Jeffk1970
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Kristallnacht

Post by Jeffk1970 »

[This topic was split from Random Third Reich Images & Discussion ~DC]



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Lammers
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Re: Random Third Reich Images

Post by Lammers »

Jeffk1970 wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:43 pm
...
Spare the Kristallnacht photos please. It was an event which many senior officers and government officials denounced, and many became very aggravated that it occurred in the first place. The events of that night and the following day were unlike any other in the Third Reich's history, and were certainly never repeated.


Lammers

Jeffk1970
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Re: Random Third Reich Images

Post by Jeffk1970 »

Lammers wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:01 am
Jeffk1970 wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:43 pm
...
Spare the Kristallnacht photos please. It was an event which many senior officers and government officials denounced, and many became very aggravated that it occurred in the first place. The events of that night and the following day were unlike any other in the Third Reich's history, and were certainly never repeated.


Lammers
First, Lammers, I will post what I please.
Second, not all of those photos were from Kristallnacht so it was not a unique event.
Last, this thread is about "random Third Reich Images," yes? Why not give a wide variety of what the Third Reich was?

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been-there
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Re: Random Third Reich Images

Post by been-there »

Lammers wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:01 am
Jeffk1970 wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:43 pm
Spare the Kristallnacht photos please. It was an event which many senior officers and government officials denounced, and many became very aggravated that it occurred in the first place. The events of that night and the following day were unlike any other in the Third Reich's history, and were certainly never repeated.
Most people have no idea what sparked the events of Kristallnacht. They know nothing of Hitler's condemnation and abhorrence of it. They know nothing of the boycott against Germany by self-proclaimed representatives of world Jewry. They know nothing of their declaration of war, and appeal to ALL Jews the world over, to wage war against Germany in April 1933.
They know nothing about the murders by Jews of the NSDAP officials Wilhelm Gustloff and Vom Rath.
They know nothing of the profiteering and carpet bagging by certain German Jews after WW1 nor of their organised, vulture-capitalist domination of German industry and economy, etc.
Most people know nothing of the organised campaign beginning in April 1933 by self-proclaimed representatives of 'World Jewry' to spread false atrocity propaganda against Germany around the world in pursuit of their 'war' against Germany.

There are people HERE at RODOH who don't want to know and don't want others to know this vitally important context.

There are people here who have no intention of thinking, discussing, re-assessing or — heaven-forbid — learning anything. They are intent only on buttressing a belief-system, antagonising other RODOH contributors, and preventing intelligent reasoned debate.

You have just corresponded with one such individual, Lammers, and are expecting him to desist from his disruption. But that is why he is here. :ugeek:

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onetruth
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Re: Random Third Reich Images

Post by onetruth »

Lammers wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:01 am
Spare the Kristallnacht photos please. It was an event which many senior officers and government officials denounced, and many became very aggravated that it occurred in the first place. The events of that night and the following day were unlike any other in the Third Reich's history, and were certainly never repeated.
Lammers
A translation of a telegram sent from Reinhard Heydrich, Major General of the SS, on November 10, 1938, that instructed local German officers on how to carry out the anti-Jewish measures that became known as Kristallnacht.

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Copy of Most Urgent telegram from Munich on November 10, 1938, 1:20 a.m.

To all: Headquarters and Stations of the State (Political) Police

To all: Local and Regional Offices of the Security Service (SD)

Urgent! For immediate attention of Chief and his deputy!

Re: Measures Against the Jews Tonight.

Because of the assassination of Legation Secretary vom Rath in Paris, demonstrations throughout the Reich are to be expected tonight — November 9 to 10, 1938. The following orders are issued for dealing with these occurrences.

1) Upon receipt of this telegram, the chiefs of the political police [Gestapo] stations or their deputies must immediately contact the appropriate political authorities for their district [the local Nazi Party leaders] . . . by telephone to arrange a discussion about the conduct of the demonstrations. This discussion should include the competent Inspector or Commander of the Order Police. . .

[The local] political authorities are to be informed that the German police have received from the Reichsfuhrer SS and the Chief of the German police the following orders to which the actions of the political authorities should be correspondingly adjusted:

a) Only such actions may be carried out which do not threaten German lives or property (e.g., burning of synagogues only when there is no threat of fire to the surroundings).

b) Stores and residences of Jews may only be destroyed but not looted. The police are instructed to supervise compliance with this order and to arrest looters.

c) Special care is to be taken on commercial streets that non-Jewish businesses are completely secured against damage.

d) Foreign citizens, even if they are Jewish, may not be molested.

2) . . .demonstrations in progress should not be prevented by the police but only supervised for compliance with the guidelines.

3) . . .existing archival material is to be impounded by the police in all synagogues and offices of the Jewish community centers to prevent its destruction in the course of the demonstrations. . . . [This material] is to be turned over to the. . . offices of the SD.

4) The direction of Security Police [both political and criminal divisions] operations relating to the anti-Jewish demonstrations resides with Political Police authorities except when orders are issued by Security Police inspectors. Officials from the Criminal Police as well as members of the Security Service (SD), of the SS paramilitary units, and of the general SS may be called upon to carry out Security Police operations.

5) As soon as the course of events during this night allows the assigned police officers to be used for this purpose, as many Jews—particularly affluent Jews—are to be arrested in all districts as can be accommodated in existing detention facilities. For the time being, only healthy male Jews, whose age is not too advanced, are to be arrested. Immediately after the arrests have been carried out, the appropriate concentration camps should be contacted to place the Jews into camps as quickly as possible. Special care should be taken that Jews arrested on the basis of this instruction are not mistreated.

6) The contents of this order are to be passed on to the competent Inspectors and Commanders of the Order Police and to regional and local sectors of the SD. . . .

The chief of the Order Police has issued the corresponding instructions to the Order Police including the fire brigades. Close coordination is to be maintained between the Security Police and the Order Police during the implementation of the ordered actions

signed: [Reinhard] Heydrich

SS-Gruppenführer

[SS-Major General, Nazi Chief of Security Police]

Jeffk1970
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Re: Random Third Reich Images

Post by Jeffk1970 »

been-there wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:26 am
Most people have no idea what sparked the events of Kristallnacht. They know nothing of Hitler's condemnation and abhorrence of it. They know nothing of the boycott against Germany by self-proclaimed representatives of world Jewry. They know nothing of their declaration of war, and appeal to ALL Jews the world over, to wage war against Germany in April 1933.
They know nothing about the murders by Jews of the NSDAP officials Wilhelm Gustloff and Vom Rath.
They know nothing of the profiteering and carpet bagging by certain German Jews after WW1 nor of their organised, vulture-capitalist domination of German industry and economy, etc.
Most people know nothing of the organised campaign beginning in April 1933 by self-proclaimed representatives of 'World Jewry' to spread false atrocity propaganda against Germany around the world in pursuit of their 'war' against Germany.

There are people HERE at RODOH who don't want to know and don't want others to know this vitally important context.

There are people here who have no intention of thinking, discussing, re-assessing or — heaven-forbid — learning anything. They are intent only on buttressing a belief-system, antagonising other RODOH contributors, and preventing intelligent reasoned debate.

You have just corresponded with one such individual, Lammers, and are expecting him to desist from his disruption. But that is why he is here.
:lol:

You are always good for a laugh, been-there. Have you not read any good books lately that you want to share with us?

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Lammers
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Re: Random Third Reich Images & Discussion

Post by Lammers »

What I had stated earlier was that many high ranking party members (and even Hitler) did not applaud the events of Kristallnacht, and in some cases condemned them.

A good example of a high ranking officer's response would be Himmler's response to Kristallnacht privately:
The order was given by the Propaganda Directorate, and I suspect that Goebbels, in his craving for power, which I noticed long ago, and also in his empty-headedness, started this action just at a time when the foreign political situation is very grave. . . . When I asked the Fuhrer about it, I had the impression that he did not know anything about these events

There was no real planning for the events of "Kristallnacht" as many assume, it began after initial public protests when vom Rath perished. It certainly was a horrible event, seeing as almost 100 people died as a result and many others were injured, but it wasn't a state organized event. Goering was very angry about how much it would cost the German insurance companies (and the economy) to have to repair all of the broken windows and burned down buildings, many of which were owned by Germans and rented out to Jews.



Lammers

onetruth
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Re: Random Third Reich Images & Discussion

Post by onetruth »

Lammers wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:12 pm
What I had stated earlier was that many high ranking party members (and even Hitler) did not applaud the events of Kristallnacht, and in some cases condemned them.
The usual BS

Those where clear instructions about Kristallnacht as i showed you above and they would not be carried out if Hitler did not approve of them :


Goebbels delivered the speech, in Hitler's place, and said that

"the Führer has decided that... demonstrations should not be prepared or organized by the party, but insofar as they erupt spontaneously, they are not to be hampered."



~

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Lammers
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Re: Random Third Reich Images & Discussion

Post by Lammers »

onetruth wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:56 pm
Lammers wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:12 pm
What I had stated earlier was that many high ranking party members (and even Hitler) did not applaud the events of Kristallnacht, and in some cases condemned them.
The usual BS

Those where clear instructions about Kristallnacht as i showed you above and they would not be carried out if Hitler did not approve of them :


Goebbels delivered the speech, in Hitler's place, and said that

"the Führer has decided that... demonstrations should not be prepared or organized by the party, but insofar as they erupt spontaneously, they are not to be hampered."



~
As I said (or implied) in my earlier post, Goebbels was the one organizing most of it, and many were not content afterwards. Your quotation only further proves that it was an event mostly carried out in response to vom Rath's murder, by the people!

If you would like to get into the business regarding documents and telegrams from the night of Kristallnacht, I am ready to play!

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To all Gauleiter HQs for Immediate Action! Directive No. 174/38. Repeating Telex of November 10, 1938. On express orders from the very highest level arson attacks on Jewish business and such like are not to occur under any circumstances or conditions whatever...
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/Hess101138a.html

Which Gau (regional) headquarters were all of these conflicting orders sent to (or not sent to)? Which ones received the Hoess telegram you link above? The Hoess telegram was reportedly not received at many headquarters.


High ranking officers such as Hitler clearly thought it would be a simple protest, with some but minor property damage. It was primarily Goebbels who escalated it to the next level, as your quote above shows. Need I say it again? It was an event that caused very many issues for Germany, issues which were both diplomatically and financially harmful.




Lammers

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