The Honorable Deborah Lipstadt

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Lammers
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Re: The Honorable Deborah Lipstadt

Post by Lammers » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:46 pm

onetruth wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:20 pm
You should ask Irving.
No, you are not getting away from this one without an explanation. Where did you get the 600,000 figure? Irving never used this as a figure for the Dresden death total.

You appear to be pulling numbers out of nowhere.



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Re: The Honorable Deborah Lipstadt

Post by onetruth » Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:11 pm

~

not the dresden number the Holocaust victims number.



But let me first ask you Lammers , being there and As ,


Do you agree with Irving's courant stand that millions died in the holocaust ? And that industrial killing of gassing took place in the Reinhardt camps ( the death toll by Irving 2.4 million ) did in fact take place ?

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Re: The Honorable Deborah Lipstadt

Post by Aryan Scholar » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:46 pm

onetruth wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:00 pm
Aryan Scholar wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:32 am
onetruth wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:27 am
been-there wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:28 am
Here we again see a person unable to acknowledge reality.
The reality is that their is no mysterious conspiracy to alter Irving words as he claims and as you quoted from his website.

The reality is that after he denied he said them - a video of him was played to him in court and he was forced to admit that that is exactly what he said, This must have been one of the embarrassing moments for him in the trial. And there where many. Like the time he had to admit that the dresden document he used in his book is forged.

The truth is that david Irving now came to admits most key elements of the holocaust - mass killing , mass killing by gas , million of Jews dead. Yet his words still serve idiots who try to deny the holocaust altogether.

~
:roll:

Been-there is correct, you are psychotic delusional, you are accusing Irving of being a liar while saying he is telling the truth when he "admits most key elements of the holocaust - mass killing , mass killing by gas , million of Jews dead".

Now he admits million have died , before that he said less than 600,000 died and before that that more germans died in the dresden bombing than jews in the holocaust. Seems he changes his mind quicker than the whether . And you call that a reliable historian ?

That is before getting into the material of the trial which proved him to be falsifier, and bigot, and that he manipulated and distorted real documents.

I can understand that for deniers like yourself and been there , that is hard to digest cause this is the sort of historian you look up to and that is the best you can hope to achieve as representative of your deranged denial cause.

But when such a person needs to face real historian and real evidence no wonder he was torn to shreds in the court room. As you and been there would be if you presented your fantasies in a court of law
Where Irving admits millions had died in homicidal gas chambers? Can I see it? What real historians are you talking about? What real evidence? What mine and been-there fantasies?

You still sound psychotic and mouth-foaming.
onetruth wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:20 pm
Do you agree with Irving's courant stand that millions died in the holocaust ? And that industrial killing of gassing took place in the Reinhardt camps ( the death toll by Irving 2.4 million ) did in fact take place ?


~
There is nothing "industrial" about the allegations of systematic mass killings at the AR camps.

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Re: The Honorable Deborah Lipstadt

Post by Lammers » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:56 pm

Aryan Scholar wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:46 pm
Where Irving admits millions had died in homicidal gas chambers? Can I see it? What real historians are you talking about? What real evidence? What mine and been-there fantasies?

You still sound psychotic and mouth-foaming.
onetruth wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:20 pm
Do you agree with Irving's courant stand that millions died in the holocaust ? And that industrial killing of gassing took place in the Reinhardt camps ( the death toll by Irving 2.4 million ) did in fact take place ?


~
There is nothing "industrial" about the allegations of systematic mass killings at the AR camps.
Here is one instance where Irving speaks about AR camps and the Holfe telegram.


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Re: The Honorable Deborah Lipstadt

Post by been-there » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:29 am

Lammers wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:56 pm
Aryan Scholar wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:46 pm
Where has Irving admitted millions had died in homicidal gas chambers? Can I see it? What real historians are you talking about? What real evidence? What are mine and been-there's fantasies?

You still sound psychotic and mouth-foaming.
onetruth wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:20 pm
Do you agree with Irving's current stand that millions died in the holocaust? And that industrial killing of gassing took place in the Reinhardt camps (the death toll by Irving 2.4 million) did in fact take place ?
There is nothing "industrial" about the allegations of systematic mass killings at the AR camps.
Here is one instance where Irving speaks about AR camps and the Höfle telegram.

Thanks again Lammers for sharing relevant footage of Irving's views, and now this other film again by Alan Heath of David Irving, demonstrating that once more onetruth is in error. Much appreciated. :)
I hadn't seen this before. And I wasn't aware of his convincing argument that Majdanek and Lublin don't fit the 'secret industrial killings centres' due to them being not in 'secret' locations, but easily observed.

I wonder if the rather nasty and unreasonable Alan Heath is paying Irving for all this one-on-one time?
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Re: The Honorable Deborah Lipstadt

Post by Lammers » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:02 am

been-there wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:29 am
Thanks again Lammers for sharing relevant footage of Irving's views, and now this other film again by Alan Heath of David Irving, demonstrating that once more onetruth is in error. Much appreciated. :)
I hadn't seen this before. And I wasn't aware of his convincing argument that Majdanek and Lublin don't fit the 'secret industrial killings centres' due to them being not in 'secret' locations, but easily observed.

I wonder if the rather nasty and unreasonable Alan Heath is paying Irving for all this one-on-one time?
No problem! There are also some other tours on Alan's channel with Irving in Auschwitz and such if you haven't already seen them. They are all mostly just the two of them arguing and disagreeing about everything they come across, with Irving being skeptical and Alan believing most of everything. Quite fascinating to watch. However, I severely doubt that Irving was paid to get a free tour :lol:.


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Re: The Honorable Deborah Lipstadt

Post by onetruth » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:05 am

Aryan Scholar wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:46 pm

Where Irving admits millions had died in homicidal gas chambers? Can I see it? What real historians are you talking about? What real evidence? What mine and been-there fantasies?

There is nothing "industrial" about the allegations of systematic mass killings at the AR camps.

"In my opinion now the real killing operations took place at the Reinhardt camps west of the Bug river. In the three camps here [Sobibor, Belzec, and Treblinka] Heinrich Himmler's men (mostly Ukrainian mercenaries) killed possibly as many as 2.4 million in the two years up to October 1943. There is now nothing to be seen of the Reinhardt camps, neither stick nor stone, so few tourists go there. I have visited all four sites earlier this year."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep ... reducation


"I do accept that the Nazis quite definitely, that Heinrich Himmler, organised and directed a programme, a clandestine programme, for the liquidation of European Jews ... and that in 1942-43 alone over 2.5 million Jews were killed in those three camps."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep ... reducation

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Re: The Dishonourable Deborah Lipstadt

Post by been-there » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:09 pm

It seems Irving has been saying different things to different people over the years. A generous evaluation would be that this is because his understanding has evolved since being forced to concentrate on 'holocaust history' since being demonised as a 'holocaust denier' by the less-than-honourable Deborah Lipstadt.
Zündel 1988 trial transcript wrote:Doug Christie: "Do you have any opinion as a result of your research as to the number of Jews who died in concentration camps during the Second World War?"
David Irving: “I am not sure that an opinion here would be of use. I have opinions. I have opinions however, in the kind of statistical orders of magnitude, where you can see there’s a minimum number and a maximum number, and I can only set these two limits and say that to my mind, it must have been of the order of 100,000 or more, but to my mind it was certainly less than the figure which is quoted nowadays of 6 million. Because on the evidence of comparison with other similar tragedies which happened in the Second World War, it is unlikely that the Jewish community would have suffered any worse than these communities.”
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/ZundelTrial.html
In 2002 someone wrote:Irving said that only 600,000 to 1 million Jews were killed during the so called Holocaust, and there was mass killing of other groups such as gypsies, Poles and homosexuals*.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/03/Islamweb.html
N.b.* I have yet to see any evidence at all — credible or even unconvincing — that people were mass-murdered purely because of their sexual orientation.
In 2007 Matthew Taylor of The Guardian newspaper wrote:He says that a document, which he is 80% sure is genuine, suggests that 2.4 million Jews were killed in Poland, but goes on to claim that the gas chamber at Auschwitz was fake.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep ... reducation
in 2007 Irving wrote:“I believe (accepting that the Höfle document and Korherr report are authentic and not forgeries) the Nazis and their accomplices murdered 2.4 million Jews in the ‘Reinhardt’ camps along the Bug River (Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor)...”
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/07/11/Warning_McShane.html
He told Alan Heath in that 2007 interview recently shared here, that the officially accepted/enforced narrative is undermined by simple arithmetic.
So, let's do some on this figure from the 2007 interview with the Guardian and his 2007 warning letter linked to above:

Treblinka: 700 - 900,000 alleged killings
Belzec: 440 - 600,000‎ alleged killings
Sobibor 200 - 250,000 alleged killings
__________________________
Total = 1,340,000 to 1,750,000

Taking these alleged totals and subtracting it from 2,400,000 = 1,060,000 to 650,000.

Where along the Bug river were these other 650,000 or more than a million ‘Reinhardt victims’ murdered?
And where are all the remains in these three 'Reinhardt killing centres' of these allegedly mass-murdered 2.4 million people?

And, how about we maybe discuss now some of the questions on the actual subject of this topic-thread, viz. Deborah Lipstadt? :ugeek:
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: The Honorable Deborah Lipstadt

Post by blake121666 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:54 pm

David Irving is currently claiming 2.8 million killed in the AR camps at the 2:57 mark of this video:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2480&p=76118&hilit=irving#p76118

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Re: The Dishonourable Deborah Lipstadt

Post by been-there » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:21 am

been-there wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:09 pm
It seems Irving has been saying different things to different people over the years. A generous evaluation would be that this is because his understanding has evolved since being forced to concentrate on 'holocaust history' since being demonised as a 'holocaust denier' by the less-than-honourable Deborah Lipstadt.
in 2007 Irving wrote:“I believe (accepting that the Höfle document and Korherr report are authentic and not forgeries) the Nazis and their accomplices murdered 2.4 million Jews in the ‘Reinhardt’ camps along the Bug River (Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor)...”
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/07/11/Warning_McShane.html
Treblinka: 700 - 900,000 alleged killings
Belzec: 440 - 600,000‎ alleged killings
Sobibor 200 - 250,000 alleged killings
__________________________
Total = 1,340,000 to 1,750,000

Taking these alleged totals and subtracting it from 2,400,000 = 650,000 to 1,060,000 not accounted for.

Where along the Bug river were these other 650,000 or more than a million ‘Reinhardt victims’ murdered?
And where are all the remains in these three 'Reinhardt killing centres' of these allegedly mass-murdered 2.4 million people?
blake121666 wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:54 pm
David Irving is currently claiming 2.8 million killed in the AR camps at the 2:57 mark of this video:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2480&p=76118&hilit=irving#p76118
Interesting. That's from 2016. So the total killed in Reinhardt camps he now claims has increased by half a million people!? And that includes Majdanek?? :?
So he contradicts there what he said to Alan Heath in 2007 about Majdanek not fitting the holocaust narrative.
https://youtu.be/DAcRYjCmN9Q
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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