Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

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Huntinger
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Re: Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:22 pm
Zabecki is not saying what you think he is :roll:
Roll your eyes all you want, whatever floats your boat. Deal with each statement at a time if you wish.
Zabacki said:
The transports were sent to other camps and they went via Treblinka in transit
18 August 1943, a transport of Jews “PJ 201" (32 wagons) went to Lublin from Bialystok via Treblinka.

This means a transport of 32 wagons containing juden (about 3,200) left Bialystok heading to Lublin passing through Treblinka.
Via means: 1 : by way of. 2 : through the medium or agency of also : by means of.

A transport of juden went to Lublin..I think that is quite clear.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Re: Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by Nessie »

Up to 2nd August, Zabecki reports mass arrivals and then either empty trains or trains carrying property leaving TII. Then it changes;
1) On 2 August 1943, the death camp was on fire between 3 p.m. and 6 p.m. During that time, two shifts of Ukrainians from the camp were bathing in the Bug. All Jews escaped from the camp, carrying weapons from the arsenal they had broken into.
The rebellion causes chaos, with damage to the camp and escaped prisoners. Then, over 2 weeks later;
2) On 18 August, a transport of Jews (Pj. 201) passed through Treblinka station, 32 wagons to Lublin.
3) On the same day, a transport designated Pj. 202 arrived at Treblinka – 37 wagons from Białystok.
One transport goes to Lublin (Majdanek) via the station and one transport goes to TII.
4) On 19 August, a transport to Lublin, designated Pj. 203, passed through the station – 40 wagons.
5) On the same day, a transport from Białystok to Treblinka arrived, designated Pj. 204 – 39 wagons.
Same again, one transport to Lublin and one to TII. That is the last transport from Bialystock as that ghetto closes. It is also the last known transport to TII as it is to be closed.
6) On 24 August, a transport to Lublin, designated Pj. 209, passed through the station – 9 wagons.
7) On 8 September, a transport of Jews to Lublin, designated Pj. 211, passed through the station, 31 wagons.
Transports to Lublin pass through the station at Treblinka, not the camp, which is being dismantled.
8) On 17 September, a transport from Mińsk Litewski to Chełmno, designated Pj. 1025, passed through the station – 50 wagons.
9) On 30 September, Rudolf Emmerich, a German railwayman, left work at the station to join the railway service in Warsaw. I know the address of his wife: Hilma Emmerich, Dresden Grossenhainer str. 97 II. I had copied this address from the envelope of a letter that Emmerich was writing.
Zabecki was recording other train movements not relevant to TII.
10) On 20 October, three wagons with Jews were dispatched from Treblinka to Sobibór.
That's it, TII is now closed, the last Jewish prisoners are sent to Sobibor and the final act is for the remaining Nazis to finish off covering up the site, as shown in Franz's photos of the excavators.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:03 pm
That's it, TII is now closed, the last Jewish prisoners are sent to Sobibor and the final act is for the remaining Nazis to finish off covering up the site, as shown in Franz's photos of the excavators.
Thank you. I am not interested in excavators; that is for you and Turnagain to debate another 5 years.
Wiki says the following:
The camp's new commandant Kurt Franz, formerly its deputy commandant, took over in August. After the war he testified that gassings had stopped by then. In reality, despite the extensive damage to the camp, the gas chambers were intact, and the killing of Polish Jews continued. Speed was reduced, with only ten wagons rolled onto the ramp at a time, while the others had to wait. The last two rail transports of Jews were brought to the camp for gassing from the Białystok Ghetto on 18 and 19 August 1943. They consisted of 76 wagons (37 the first day and 39 the second), according to a communiqué published by the Office of Information of the Armia Krajowa, based on observation of Holocaust trains passing through the village of Treblinka. The 39 wagons that came to Treblinka on 19 August 1943 were carrying at least 7,600 survivors of the Białystok Ghetto Uprising.

As you can see the above is deliberate misinformation:
76 Wagons; 37 first day and 39 the second. (18-19 August 1943)

Yet Zabecki says:
  • 18 August 1943, a transport of Jews “PJ 201" (32 wagons) went to Lublin from Bialystok via Treblinka.
  • 19 August, the transport “PJ 203" (40 wagons) went to Lublin from Bialystok via Treblinka.
  • 19 August, the last transport of Jews from Bialystok, “PJ 204" (39 wagons), arrived at Treblinka
From Zabeckis information the transport on the 18th did not stop but went through Treblinka railways station on the Malkinia -Siedlce railway system.

A spur line was built Off the Malkinia-Siedlce railroad line southeast of Treblinka village (the rail line to Siedlce no longer exists today, but the right of way is indicated on the highway map by a dashed black line). The line ran to a penal colony built in early 1941. This camp was called Treblinka 1, and served as a punishment camp.
Image
The first transport on the 19th did not stop either but carried on through the Treblinka railway station.

The second transport with 39 cars did stop, most likely at a Treblinka camp; were these people murdered?

Zabecki goes onto say
24 August, transport “PJ 209" (9 wagons) went to Lublin via Treblinka.
8 September, transport “PJ 211" (31 wagons) was sent to Lublin,

He omits to say if these 40 wagons were full of people but most likely were being the occupants of the wagons that arrived on the second transport on the 19th. He omits to say where these wagons came from like in the other reports so most likely they were already at the Treblinka siding somewhere. This is lying by Omission.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Re: Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:32 pm
Nessie wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:03 pm
That's it, TII is now closed, the last Jewish prisoners are sent to Sobibor and the final act is for the remaining Nazis to finish off covering up the site, as shown in Franz's photos of the excavators.
Thank you. I am not interested in excavators; that is for you and Turnagain to debate another 5 years.
Wiki says the following:
The camp's new commandant Kurt Franz, formerly its deputy commandant, took over in August. After the war he testified that gassings had stopped by then. In reality, despite the extensive damage to the camp, the gas chambers were intact, and the killing of Polish Jews continued. Speed was reduced, with only ten wagons rolled onto the ramp at a time, while the others had to wait. The last two rail transports of Jews were brought to the camp for gassing from the Białystok Ghetto on 18 and 19 August 1943. They consisted of 76 wagons (37 the first day and 39 the second), according to a communiqué published by the Office of Information of the Armia Krajowa, based on observation of Holocaust trains passing through the village of Treblinka. The 39 wagons that came to Treblinka on 19 August 1943 were carrying at least 7,600 survivors of the Białystok Ghetto Uprising.

As you can see the above is deliberate misinformation:
76 Wagons; 37 first day and 39 the second. (18-19 August 1943)

Yet Zabecki says:
  • 18 August 1943, a transport of Jews “PJ 201" (32 wagons) went to Lublin from Bialystok via Treblinka.
  • 19 August, the transport “PJ 203" (40 wagons) went to Lublin from Bialystok via Treblinka.
  • 19 August, the last transport of Jews from Bialystok, “PJ 204" (39 wagons), arrived at Treblinka
Wikipedia gets it wrong. It is a handy source, but not regarded as necessarily the most reliable.
From Zabeckis information the transport on the 18th did not stop but went through Treblinka railways station on the Malkinia -Siedlce railway system.

A spur line was built Off the Malkinia-Siedlce railroad line southeast of Treblinka village (the rail line to Siedlce no longer exists today, but the right of way is indicated on the highway map by a dashed black line). The line ran to a penal colony built in early 1941. This camp was called Treblinka 1, and served as a punishment camp.
Image
The first transport on the 19th did not stop either but carried on through the Treblinka railway station.

The second transport with 39 cars did stop, most likely at a Treblinka camp; were these people murdered?

Zabecki goes onto say
24 August, transport “PJ 209" (9 wagons) went to Lublin via Treblinka.
8 September, transport “PJ 211" (31 wagons) was sent to Lublin,

He omits to say if these 40 wagons were full of people but most likely were being the occupants of the wagons that arrived on the second transport on the 19th. He omits to say where these wagons came from like in the other reports so most likely they were already at the Treblinka siding somewhere. This is lying by Omission.
He is recording what he knows. If he does not know where the trains originated, he leaves that blank.

Do you have a point to this?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:05 pm
He is recording what he knows. If he does not know where the trains originated, he leaves that blank.
Do you have a point to this?
The point is that you accept that Wiki is giving misinformation on Treblinka, alleging that 7900 people were murdered when in fact they were not.

Zabeckis information:
  • 18th August 1943 32 cars passing through
  • 19th August 1943 40 cars passing through
  • 19th August 1943 39 cars arrive
  • 24th August 1943 9 cars leave....30 remaining
  • 8th Sept 1943 31 cars leave.....0 remaining
39 cars arrive and 40 leaves which means there was an extra car (wagon) in the siding. People left 6 days after arriving on the 19th August (900 people) while the remaining 3000 left 22 days later on the 8th September.

USHMM said:
In August 1943, the Germans mounted an operation to destroy the Bialystok ghetto.
Approximately 7,600 Jews were held in a central transit camp in the city before deportation to Treblinka. Those deemed fit to work were sent to the Majdanek camp.


According to Zabecki 72 wagons were sent to Majdanek (Lublin) on the 18 and 19th August. Wagons often held 150 deportees, although 50 was the number proposed by the SS regulations. The average is 100. Using the average number 7200 juden were sent directly to Majdanek on those dates. Using the legal, 50 per wagon 7600 people would require
152 wagons. Zabecki only reports 111 wagons, which if all sent would mean 68.5 people per wagon.

This is the jootrix, 4932 (68.5 per wagon) were sent to Majdanek on the 18th and 19th August, the train having to pass Treblinka railway station via the Malkinia Siedlce line. The USHMM make it appear all juden were sent to Treblinka to be exterminated. For one reason or another 2,668 juden stayed at the TII camp for a period of 6 and then 22 days.
(616 then 2052).

If it were not for Mr Zabecki one would assume all of these Bialystok people were murdered. Jootrix by USHMM at its best.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Re: Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by Werd »

Huntinger wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:54 pm
Nessie wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:05 pm
He is recording what he knows. If he does not know where the trains originated, he leaves that blank.
Do you have a point to this?
The point is that you accept that Wiki is giving misinformation on Treblinka, alleging that 7900 people were murdered when in fact they were not.

Zabeckis information:
  • 18th August 1943 32 cars passing through
  • 19th August 1943 40 cars passing through
  • 19th August 1943 39 cars arrive
  • 24th August 1943 9 cars leave....30 remaining
  • 8th Sept 1943 31 cars leave.....0 remaining
39 cars arrive and 40 leaves which means there was an extra car (wagon) in the siding. People left 6 days after arriving on the 19th August (900 people) while the remaining 3000 left 22 days later on the 8th September.

USHMM said:
In August 1943, the Germans mounted an operation to destroy the Bialystok ghetto.
Approximately 7,600 Jews were held in a central transit camp in the city before deportation to Treblinka. Those deemed fit to work were sent to the Majdanek camp.


According to Zabecki 72 wagons were sent to Majdanek (Lublin) on the 18 and 19th August. Wagons often held 150 deportees, although 50 was the number proposed by the SS regulations. The average is 100. Using the average number 7200 juden were sent directly to Majdanek on those dates. Using the legal, 50 per wagon 7600 people would require
152 wagons. Zabecki only reports 111 wagons, which if all sent would mean 68.5 people per wagon.

This is the jootrix, 4932 (68.5 per wagon) were sent to Majdanek on the 18th and 19th August, the train having to pass Treblinka railway station via the Malkinia Siedlce line. The USHMM make it appear all juden were sent to Treblinka to be exterminated. For one reason or another 2,668 juden stayed at the TII camp for a period of 6 and then 22 days.
(616 then 2052).

If it were not for Mr Zabecki one would assume all of these Bialystok people were murdered. Jootrix by USHMM at its best.
Jews passing through the camps. Hmmmm. Reminds me of the Korherr report. :lol:

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Re: Someone called Jeff thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by WillDak »

Nessie:
Arguments with me are dull and repetitive
You can say that again Nessie. (Pun intended.)

Nessie:
I repeat so that you can never escape the glaring flaws in your arguments. which you keep repeating as if nothing is wrong.
That's a good idea Nessie.

Let's see how it works for you:
Hanna Hasbara's questions to Nessie:
When you say "with the utmost certainty" - is that the same level of certainty that you use to claim 33 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Belzec camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "using the scientific method" - is that the same method that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 33 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the Belzec camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "burial site" - are you including the total volume of all 33 “huge mass graves” that you claim - with the utmost certainty - have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Belzec camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "prove" - do you mean prove with the same standard of proof that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 33 extant "huge mass graves" have been proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Belzec camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

Can you, with the utmost certainty and using the scientific method prove that Belzec is not the burial site of at least 530,000 jews - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: No as it does contain at least that number of remains


When you say "with the utmost certainty" - is that the same level of certainty that you use to claim 15 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Chelmno camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "using the scientific method" - is that the same method that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 15 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the Chelmno camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "burial site" - are you including the total volume of all 15 “huge mass graves” that you claim - with the utmost certainty - have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Chelmno camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "prove" - do you mean prove with the same standard of proof that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 15 extant "huge mass graves" have been proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Chelmno camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

Can you, with the utmost certainty and using the scientific method prove that Chelmno is not the burial site of at least 252,000 jews - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: No as it does contain at least that number of remains


When you say "with the utmost certainty" - is that the same level of certainty that you use to claim 16 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Sobibor camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "using the scientific method" - is that the same method that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 16 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the Sobibor camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "burial site" - are you including the total volume of all 16 “huge mass graves” that you claim - with the utmost certainty - have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Sobibor camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes


When you say "prove" - do you mean prove with the same standard of proof that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 16 extant "huge mass graves" have been proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Sobibor camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

Can you, with the utmost certainty and using the scientific method prove that Sobibor is not the burial site of at least 201,000 jews - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: No as it does contain at least that number of remains


When you say "with the utmost certainty" - is that the same level of certainty that you use to claim 11 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "using the scientific method" - is that the same method that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 11 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "burial site" - are you including the total volume of all 11 “huge mass graves” that you claim - with the utmost certainty - have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "prove" - do you mean prove with the same standard of proof that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 11 extant "huge mass graves" have been proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

Can you, with the utmost certainty and using the scientific method prove that Treblinka II is not the burial site of at least 813,000 jews - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: No as it does contain at least that number of remains

SFinesilver's questions to Nessie:
#27 - Is it known - with the utmost certainty - that; legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have actually located / proven the existence of numerous discernable / measurable extant mass graves within the boundaries of each of the Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka II camps - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes.

#43 - The MAXIMUM number of the 33 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Belzec identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 33

#44 - The MAXIMUM number of the 33 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Belzec identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the remains of at least 19 people; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 33

#45 - The MAXIMUM number of the 15 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Chelmno identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 15

#46 - The MAXIMUM number of the 15 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Chelmno identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the remains of at least 19 people; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 15

#47 - The MAXIMUM number of the 16 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 16

#48 - The MAXIMUM number of the 16 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the remains of at least 19 people; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 16

#49 - The MAXIMUM number of the 11 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 11

#50 - The MAXIMUM number of the 11 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the remains of at least 19 people; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 11

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Re: Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by Huntinger »

Me thinks Willdak is the spammer.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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