Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

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Werd
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Re: Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by Werd »

Nick Terry over at skeptics forum has some choice words for Nessie and his repetitious nonsense.

https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic. ... 89#p760089
Please for the love of god expand this to all the relevant camps including Auschwitz, stop with the 1.274 million Hoefle-AR nonsense.

Chelmno poses problems that are insoluble for 'transit', AND there are numerous documents for gassing PLUS cremation there. As the very first extermination camp, it is a 'do not pass go' hurdle that must be crossed, if deniers can't explain away Chelmno why should anyone listen to them on Treblinka? And it's been blogged heavily at HC, the sources are online.

There are all kinds of questions to be asked of deniers regarding 'resettlement' at Auschwitz in 1942 to May 1944, and much to learn and digest re the *actual* transit camp phase in May-October 1944 at Auschwitz, which would change the freaking record.

For starters, one can ask deniers how the onward transit of the deportees not selected to be registered in Auschwitz-Birkenau worked. Where were they held before joining a train to the east? Why don't we have a single testimony about that? How did the SS justify sending irregular contingents of 500-600-700 east when this was inefficient, or did they hold them temporarily in a barracks sector to round up to 1000-2000 size transports? If so, where were those holding barracks? There are numerous maps of Birkenau and the Auschwitz complex, there is unanimous agreement that selections happened on the old ramp to the east of Birkenau, until 1944 when they happened inside the camp on the new ramp.

Nessie, you are playing into the worst tendencies of the remaining deniers with your broken record of 1.274 million and the AR camps. Give it a freaking rest, for the love of God; widen your repertoire, go away and do some more reading - proper reading, you can find *plenty* of free online literature and sources - and change up. Or just stop and go do something else for a while.
You heard it here, folks. The gas chamber mongers also know Nessie doesn't pay attention and doesn't read. But with how he constantly avoids what is in front of him that refutes his garbage here on rodoh and he just re-starts debates all over again, we already knew that he ignores what is in front of him. As a troll destined to frustrate things out of some noble purpose (as I speculate to his real motives at the bottom of my post here), he creates MORE PAGES and flood topics with bullshit. Only in a few rare cases does he finally admit he was wrong after weeks or months of just spamming the same refuted arguments. But as I claim, he secretly knew they were wrong the whole time; and we know that he knows they were bad.

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Re: Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by Huntinger »

Werd wrote: ↑
Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:31 pm
You heard it here, folks. The gas chamber mongers also know Nessie doesn't pay attention and doesn't read. But with how he constantly avoids what is in front of him that refutes his garbage here on rodoh and he just re-starts debates all over again, we already knew that he ignores what is in front of him. As a troll destined to frustrate things out of some noble purpose (as I speculate to his real motives at the bottom of my post here), he creates MORE PAGES and flood topics with bullshit. Only in a few rare cases does he finally admit he was wrong after weeks or months of just spamming the same refuted arguments. But as I claim, he secretly knew they were wrong the whole time; and we know that he knows they were bad.
This is correct, it constantly demands evidence but doesn't read the evidence presented to him; he does not even skim over it but blatantly ignores it. There was a recent example of where the evidence was presented along with the witnesses who mentioned 10 000 Juden were released into the RKU, but perished due to starvation disease etc. I kept referring to this, obviously not making the reference links on each and every occasion. Flipper then prattles on at Klowns saying the following:
unevidenced claim (like the Nazis took the Jews from the AR camps and just left them to fend for themselves somewhere in the east),
You are right, there were deliberate walls of text which stopped all discourse, debate, discussion or otherwise. The "ovens" thread was the worst, with the same quotes and photos posted over and over again. This is Nessies tactic, to stop debate, it is a Hasbara troll as you indicated many years ago and got a ban. Nessie got upset one day and screamed that we only do this to bring down the state of IsRa-El; that speak volumes and the obsession he has.
I do not wish to see the following photo ever again posted. It appeared on the ovens thread about 700 times.
Image


π–€π–’π–†π–—π–’π–Š π–‰π–†π–˜ π•·π–Šπ–‡π–Šπ–“, π–“π–Žπ–ˆπ–π–™ π–†π–šπ–˜π–‡π–Šπ–šπ–™π–Šπ–“.
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Re: Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by Werd »

More from Nick Terry
https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic. ... 77#p760177
The point isn't about doing detailed work; it's about knowing enough to debate with deniers, who might not know much, but it doesn't take an enormous effort to look things up, do a bit of background reading, and be more effective as a debater on a wider range of topics.
[...]
I've read enough of your responses here and at RODOH to know you're repetitive, same as the deniers are.
[...]
It's really not that difficult to add a source a week or a source at a time to the repertoire; that won't cut much into your leisure time and will make your hobby of arguing with deniers more effective.

So I agree with Blake that you need to be showing your sources more, even if it means spamming a set of links and sources repeatedly; this does also mean that people like him, or even Werd, who've read more than Turnagain and been-there, might actually join in discussions with you more. That's if you insist on staying at RODOH.
Jeff.
https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic. ... 82#p760182
The repetitiveness comes from hearing the same things over and over again. That’s why I think it is a waste of time.

Nessie, it helps to move off the same thing that you argue over and over again. It would help you to actually read some material on it. There is a lack of written work in English on the Action Reinhard Camps in the English language but it is still there. There’s Arad’s book to start with, then HC’s White Paper, then the books on the trials. Check the reading section to get some good things to read.
Even they are telling the lifelong rookie to stop trying to act like a pro without actually being a pro. :lol:

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Re: Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by Huntinger »

Werd wrote: ↑
Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:41 pm

Even they are telling the lifelong rookie to stop trying to act like a pro without actually being a pro. :lol:
Yep why take the time to do all of that reading (their propaganda btw) when it is easier to spew, "show me the evidence, if not B then A, non-sequitur, 1.234 million, clothes and feed, where did they go"
got that
now repeat backwards
got that
repeat several thousand more times.


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Re: Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie tried and counter the arguments put forward by Dr Nick with
So, I tend to concentrate on the big one, the 1.274 million who according to deniers, the Nazis were feeding, clothing and accommodating by the end of 1942.
The good doctor responded with some solid advice, which I have added. Sadly the good doctor has taken the stance of we against them, instead of being honest enough to investigate the flaws in the official narrative pushed into the public consciousness. If Nessie takes that advice, which he will not then it could be a pleasure to discuss items of interest with him, even though there are different points of view. This is what forums are for, especially free discussion forums like RODOH. Nessie does not know enough to argue which is why he adopts the siege mentality where he bunkers up and spews out the "where did they go" nonsense day after day; this is the last resort argument.

The point is that if Nessie does read through Korherr and takes Dr Nicks advice, then perhaps we could all re think things perhaps not considered before, do some research and comeback a few weeks later. This off the cuff commenting does no good as that ends up did/ didn't type posts.
Nick Terry wrote:I've read enough of your responses here and at RODOH to know you're repetitive, same as the deniers are.

It's hard not to be repetitive - I have certainly repeated myself often enough over the years - but it helps to be able to add extra points to the simplified repertoire, to be able to make more connections, to have references sourced and bookmarked so links can be given, and so on.

The 'big one' is really Korherr not Hoefle, so you should be asking explicitly about Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka AND Chelmno as a matter of course. BCST - they are all in Korherr, they're backed up by Hoefle and things like Greiser-Himmler 1.5.42, NO-246, and the '97,000 processed' gas vans doc. One can add more such sources referencing exterminatory intent, e.g. Brack-Himmler, 23.6.42, NO-205, and one can reference back to T4 with its further gassing docs.

So you can challenge deniers on BOTH extermination AND resettlement simultaneously, in space-efficient ways, and add ever more sources to the picture. Given their propensity to default back to Treblinka, pointing out they need to refute the smaller camps first (Chelmno and Sobibor) is another tactic to insist on over and over.

It's really not that difficult to add a source a week or a source at a time to the repertoire; that won't cut much into your leisure time and will make your hobby of arguing with deniers more effective.

So I agree with Blake that you need to be showing your sources more, even if it means spamming a set of links and sources repeatedly; this does also mean that people like him, or even Werd, who've read more than Turnagain and been-there, might actually join in discussions with you more. That's if you insist on staying at RODOH.

The points made by Sergey and Denying History, that you are effectively enabling attention-seeking trolls, still stands; they've treated you like a punching bag and restricted your ability to post over and over, because they can. There are good reasons why next to nobody from the anti-denier world has posted on CODOH or RODOH for many years - the game-playing and censorship are not worth the hassle at all at CODOH, the artificial restrictions are too much.

At RODOH, the quality of 'revisionists' nosedived as it became a small circle-jerk - it was never very high to begin with. Been-there proved he hasn't progressed or learned anything in the past six years when he showed up here as Really_Skeptical. The question to ask yourself is, have YOU progressed in your knowledge and most of all, have you progressed in your ability to present your knowledge?
Top
Conclusion
I am confident if Nessie takes time out to reflect, read the books suggested by others at Klowns and take on Dr Nicks advice he would be more than a welcome member in the Holocaust forum; Scott has said he would take him back. The discussions would be interesting instead of the appearances of trolling and mundane repetition. Nessie take Dr Terrys advice. 8-)


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Re: Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by Werd »

Nessie thinks admits his lack of knowledge but still thinks he's wise.
https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic. ... 42#p760342
I do not think that much knowledge of the Holocaust is needed to debunk denier claims and arguments. I think that a good knowledge of denier tactics and logical fallacies is.

The important part is "denier claims and arguments". I concentrate on attacking them, for example; when a denier claims people were not gassed in certain places, I ask them to evidence that claim. When the denier argues that he does not need to, I attack their use of logical fallacies to try to avoid evidencing their claim.
The reason the denier says this is because he is WAITING FOR YOU TO PRESENT EVIDENCE THAT GASSING DID HAPPEN IN A CERTAIN LEICHENKELLER OF A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WITH A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF ZYKLON B PELLETS!!! And you have presented nothing except quotations from a few documents that Mattogno already dealt with when he blasted Pressac's so called "criminal traces" theory. That's just one example of Mattogno robbing the other side of documentary "evidence" of gas chambers.
You attack their lack of knowledge and faulty interpretations of the history of what happened. I attack their tactics and use of fallacies
Yes yes we all know your deductive argument of how it's either A or B, or if A then not B. A. Therefore not B. But revisionists aren't contesting your use of deductive logic. That's where you end up beating a dead horse for no reason. What we're contesting on an inductive view is what evidence you are LACKING for A. THAT'S ALL IT HAS EVER BEEN. And your tactic is to repeat yourself, "I have evidence. I have evidence" without actually showing it. I.E. How I mopped the floors with you in the ovens debate years ago as summarized here

On another post.
https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic. ... 45#p760345
The restrictions came as soon as I switched to asking for evidence to back up their claims of no gassings.
[...]
The first restriction came when been-there was given moderator status for part of the forum and he rejected everything I posted that asked for evidence.
No the restrictions came when it was clear all you were going to keep doing was re-hashing your stupid A or B argument, screaming up and down "I have evidence. I have evidence" and REFUSING to take account of the CLEAR ERRORS you made in the past and all of the evasions of Mattogno's anti-Pressac arguments. Mattogno and others on rodoh repeatedly put those documents back in context that you loved quoting from the phnd holocaust site or whatever the hell that site was. And also your abuse of the ovens debate. THAT my friend, I suspect, put you on permanent intensive watch. They had to shut the goddamn thing down because of you.

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Re: Nick Terry and the numbers

Post by been-there »

.
PREMISE: an accurate understanding of reality has been achieved in almost all avenues of human knowledge by applying critical thinking, rigorous analysis and some form of experimentation.

ABSTRACT: In the last two centuries, the power of β€˜religious’ thinking has decreased
In its stead phenomenal human advance in almost all areas has been made because human society followed closely the empirical paradigm.

We started to look for reproducible evidence upon which to build our understanding and interaction with our world.
We no longer relied SOLEY on collective beliefs and out-dated authorities.
Anyone and everyone was encouraged to not only look for evidence, but to test the discovered evidence by experimentation.
HOW we devised those experiments was recognised to being vulnerable to human bias. So we collectively understood that any unacknowledged bias which subconsciously confirms preconcieved ideas needs to be recognised and eliminated. This was to be done by applying the test of falsifiability: β€˜can the conclusion of our analysis and tests be falsified’? I.e. β€˜Is there an alternative explanation?’

By applying such mental methodology to the physical investigation is how advance has been made in knowledge of our universe.
This applies also to our historiographies:
β€˜Is there evidence to support a historiographical conclusion? Is there evidence that refutes it? Are there rival explanations, understandings and narratives for the same evidence?’

CONCLUSION: a correct and accurate understanding of reality depends upon reproducible experimentation and an ability to consider and correct our own biases. It requires an ability to consider where we might be wrong, to actively investigate that possibility, and where discovered make corrections.

Anyone who can not do that β€” no matter in what field of enquiry, and no matter how much investigation, reading and research they have done β€” will be in danger of becoming an irrational bigot: a 'believer'.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

With the above in mind here are some observations on a fairly old post copied here from the self-delusionally named 'SKEPTICS' discussion forum.
They concern a qualified 'holocaust' academic's comments which I think demonstrate considerable irrational bigotry, posing self-righteously as confirmed certainty, for someone allowed to teach at a University (Exeter).
Huntinger wrote: ↑
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:35 pm
Nick Terry wrote:...Blake, or even Werd, who've read more than Turnagain and been-there...
1. First, Nick Terry can not β€” and does not β€” know how much those named have read. He is obviously guessing, but he appears to think he knows. When anyone believes they know with certainty things they cannot know β€” and makes dogmatic statements based on such false knowledge β€” that is sign of an arrogant self-delusion and unwarranted superiority complex.

2. Secondly, wide reading is not the same as broad knowledge. So even if his guess were accurate, it is irrelevant.
As reknowned intellectual, ground-breaking Scientist and influential thinker Richard Feynman observed, knowing the names, and numbers of things is not wisdom. If you do not know and understand how these things relate and function, your knowledge is of no use to you. It's merely collecting facts to show off to others.

It's no use merely reading and filtering information according to an a priori fixed belief. A judgement will always be involved deciding what to pay attention to and how to interpret it. So if we are not curious and conscious of our own pre-determined biases, such reading will be next to useless. It may even be WORSE than useless: it will be accumulating false knowledge. AS I think the case of Nick Terry and other 'experts' demonstrates.
Nick Terry wrote:...Been-there proved he hasn't progressed or learned anything in the past six years when he showed up here as Really_Skeptical. The question to ask yourself is, have YOU progressed in your knowledge and most of all, have you progressed in your ability to present your knowledge?
Nick Terry appears to me to have not yet understood the distinction between explicitly knowing details (accepted beliefs) and seeking an unbiased understanding of how the details actually fit together and relate.
He and St.Mech during my discussions with them at the hypocritically named 'skeptics' forum, demonstrated that they do not even understood key words and concepts such as falsifiability, historiography, empirical, cultural conditioning, conformation bias, cult-think, etc.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Re: Nick Terry and the numbers

Post by Nessie »

been-there wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:55 pm
.....
He and St.Mech during my discussions with them at the hypocritically named 'skeptics' forum, demonstrated that they do not even understood key words and concepts such as falsifiability, historiography, empirical, cultural conditioning, conformation bias, cult-think, etc.
Best stick to what can be evidenced to have happened, using original documents, eye witnesses and contemporary physical evidence, along with evidence later gathered in archaeological and forensic examinations.

Deniers have no evidence to back up their claims. Instead, they are obsessed with hearsay, rumour and atrocity stories and their reliance on arguments that they think make sense, but are in fact logical fallacies.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Nick Terry and the numbers

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:00 pm
Best stick to what can be evidenced to have happened, using original documents, eye witnesses and contemporary physical evidence, along with evidence later gathered in archaeological and forensic examinations.
Good advice and one the exterminists should try; the only documents they have are adminicles, unreliable contradictory eye witness testimony, no physical evidence of consequence, no forensic or archaeological evidence except that provided by compromised parties like the Soviet and Polish extraordinary commissions.


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Re: Holocaust controversies thinks Nessie is a spammer

Post by Turnagain »

Uh-huh, we should stick to dubious documents, lying eyewitnesses, physical evidence such as that claimed by Lukaszkiewicz, Kola, et al. and the unproven forensic examinations. You betcha'. That's the ticket...in holyhoax la-la land.

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