been-there wrote: ↑
Mon May 29, 2017 6:15 am
Scott wrote:For example, I don't think the My Lai Massacre involved sexual assaults, at least not from American troops. I think you are conflating concepts and investigations here. You are welcome to post evidence if you think otherwise.
407 were murdered at My Lai 4, and 97 were murdered at My Khe 4, for a total of 504 Vietnamese civilians. It also must be noted, that there were twenty rapes committed, not to include attempted rapes. I have chosen not to go into detail about how those executions were committed, or the torture and extreme suffering that was committed by American soldiers under Pentagon command. This butcher shop mentality would be extremely difficult to read and comprehend by most people. I will say this, and it is a quote from Larry Colburn, who was a door gunner on Hugh Thompson’s helicopter that landed on the ground during the massacre, and attempted to stop the killing. These are Larry Colburn’s words: “The only thing the U.S. soldiers did not do was cook them and eat them.”
Thanks, Been-There for posting some sources for these rape allegations. Here are my comments.
Mostly we have accusations and not sober conclusions about what happened at My Lai.
So every Vietnamese peasant woman has a My Lai story of rape and cannibalism, and no doubt with a SE Asian "Muriel" or "Eva" reporting about how "Moshe" was made into a lampshade, and maybe they will go onto the Donahue TV program or some other analogue to tell us that these stories are true because of " ... that smell. He [i.e., Professor of History--Michael Shermer, who reluctantly denied the Human Soap allegations on the same 1994 Donahue show] was not there."
Do you see where I am going with this? If American troops were willing to execute Viet Cong
-Namese peasants in cold blood when they got their orders (or got their orders crossed), why not rape them too? Heck, why not cook them for their stew, and turn them into Human Lampshades and keepsakes to send home?
Well, digging deeper into the source material cited, I see there is some stuff by William T. Allison, Professor of History and Department Chair at Georgia Southern University:
In looking at the stuff on the website, it appears that Prof. Allison teaches Military History and maybe with an emphasis in International Law. I am wondering if he is one of those military historian academics who have more experience documenting punk rock concerts than actually having been in the military, but I am just being a little bit cheeky here; he has taught at the Air Force and Army War College, and so forth, so he must be pretty highly regarded in those circles.
Here is a list of Prof. Allison's publications from the above website:
My Lai: An American Atrocity in the Vietnam War. (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 2012).
The Gulf War, 1990-1991. (New York: Palgrave MacMillan, 2012).
Dreams, Myths, and Reality: Utah and the American West. Ed. with Susan J. Matt (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 2008).
The Tet Offensive: A Brief History with Documents. (New York: Routledge, 2008).
Military Justice in Vietnam: The Rule of Law in an American War. (Lawrence: University Press of Kansas, 2007).
American Military History: A Survey from Colonial Times to the Present. Co-author with Jeffrey Grey and Janet Valentine (Upper Saddle River, New Jersey: Prentice Hall, 2007; Second Edition 2013).
To Protect and To Serve: A History of Police in America. Co-author with Robert C. Wadman (Upper Saddle River, New Jersey: Prentice-Hall, 2004).
Witness to Revolution: The Russian Revolution Diary & Letters of J. Butler Wright. (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 2002).
American Diplomats in Russia: Case Studies in Orphan Diplomacy, 1916-1919. (Westport, Connecticut: Praeger Publishers, 1997).
And here is some other biographical information about Dr. Allison from Amazon:
Bill Allison is Professor of Military History at Georgia Southern University, joining the faculty there in 2008 and serving as Chair of the Department of History from 2008 to 2010. He earned his Ph.D. in history at Bowling Green State University in 1995, then taught at the University of Saint Francis before joining the History Department at Weber State University from 1999-2008. During the 2002-2003 academic year, he was Visiting Professor in the Department Strategy and International Security at the USAF Air War College and he was Visiting Professor of Military History at the USAF School for Advanced Air and Space Studies from 2010-2011. He is currently the General Harold K. Johnson Visiting Chair in Military History at the US Army War College. He is author of The Gulf War (Palgrave Macmillan, 2012), My Lai: An American Atrocity in the Vietnam War (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2012), Military Justice in Vietnam: The Rule of Law in an American War (University Press of Kansas, 2007), The Tet Offensive (Routledge, 2008), among other works. He has presented papers and lectured at numerous conferences and universities, including Oxford, Cambridge, and the Australian Defence Force Academy. He is active in the Society for Military History and has served on the editorial board of the Journal of Military History. He has also served as a member of the Department of the Army Historical Advisory Committee. A native of Texas, he lives in Spartanburg, South Carolina, with his wife Jennifer and black lab Moose.
I have a mild interest in the subject since all of my ancestors were of Western pioneer stock, and my late Grandmother graduated from Weber State (Ogden, Utah), where Prof. Allison was on faculty and apparently edited the Critchlow Lecture series on Utah settlement, and (I'm guessing) this is generously influenced by the Leftist and somewhat pozzed so-called New Western History. I see references to polygamy and dearth of nuclear families or settlements in Idaho or something like that, and I am rather suspicious. These days, with the Army Historical Advisory fawning to incorporate civilian gurus that would make the Frankfurt School and Jewish Gender Feminists happy, I can only say that the military personnel infrastructure needs a big purge of more than transsexuals and twinks like Bradley Manning. Perhaps I am just being paranoid, but it is hard not to see the globalization agenda and Marxist decolonization narrative with the implicit deconstructionist of White identity everywhere infused with modern academia. How can one go wrong with an Intersex dog named Bear or Beaver or whatever?
Anyway, specifically to the issue at hand, my Library does not have a copy of Prof. Allison's My Lai book to see what he cites for source information on the rape allegations. Unfortunately I can't do Inter-Library Loan right now over the Summer for various reasons. It is published at John's Hopkins, which has an especially cucked school of International Relations.
However, I think I can order the one about International/Military Law in Vietnam, and that might be worth checking out. I suspect we are going to get something along the lines of American Military Tribunal (Nuremberg) Justice Telford Taylor's treatise lamenting how "international justice established at Nuremberg" failed us in Vietnam. Funny how it always does when fighting Communists--or when not busy defending Israel.
Still petty skeptical about the Americal Division/ My Lai rape claims. But thanks again.