Deborah Lipstadt or David Irving

This board is open for all subject matters. Post information and discussion materials about open-debate and censorship on other boards (including this one) here. Memory Hole 2 is a RODOH subforum for alternate perspectives.
Post Reply
User avatar
Blogbuster
Posts: 2959
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:36 pm
Contact:

Deborah Lipstadt or David Irving

Post by Blogbuster » Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:51 pm

Of the two website/ blogs, which do you believe offers a more balanced view of the subject of the Holocaust?

Should they even be concerned abut being balanced?

Does Irving present more of an actual body of work of historical significance in contrast to Lipstadts editorials?
Blogbuster

Get the facts about the strange phenomenon of Holocaust hate blogging!
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=667

http://hateblogwatch.nazihunter.net/forum

User avatar
Scott
Site Admin
Posts: 2232
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:43 am
Location: USA, West of the Pecos
Contact:

Re: Deborah Lipstadt or David Irving

Post by Scott » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:28 am

Blogbuster wrote:
Does Irving present more of an actual body of work of historical significance in contrast to Lipstadts editorials?
Irving is all over the map on the Big-H and doesn't have any clear or coherent thesis on this.

He seems to uncritically accept the Operation Reinhardt exterminationist thesis as typified by Yitzhak Arad, while defending his earlier support of (engineer) Fred Leuchter that on technical grounds excoriated the Auschwitz Death Camp and gassing thesis.

But then Irving never claimed to be a Holocaust historian in any case.

;)

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

User avatar
Blogbuster
Posts: 2959
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:36 pm
Contact:

Re: Deborah Lipstadt or David Irving

Post by Blogbuster » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:44 pm

Scott wrote:
Blogbuster wrote:
Does Irving present more of an actual body of work of historical significance in contrast to Lipstadts editorials?
Irving is all over the map on the Big-H and doesn't have any clear or coherent thesis on this.

He seems to uncritically accept the Operation Reinhardt exterminationist thesis as typified by Yitzhak Arad, while defending his earlier support of (engineer) Fred Leuchter that on technical grounds excoriated the Auschwitz Death Camp and gassing thesis.

But then Irving never claimed to be a Holocaust historian in any case.

;)

Do you think he was always that way? Or is he treading lightly since losing his big court battle?

He was just recently permitted back into Germany (see link) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ement.html

Perhaps he's being "extra careful"


Here is a link to what the ADL have to say about him: http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/irving. ... tem=irving
Blogbuster

Get the facts about the strange phenomenon of Holocaust hate blogging!
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=667

http://hateblogwatch.nazihunter.net/forum

User avatar
Scott
Site Admin
Posts: 2232
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:43 am
Location: USA, West of the Pecos
Contact:

Re: Deborah Lipstadt or David Irving

Post by Scott » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:23 pm

I think Irving is an increasingly crass opportunist on some level and that is not likely to improve. This is really rather unfortunate, too, because Irving is a talented historian with about forty impressive works on WWII, one of the few who tries to honestly assess the other side of the Good War. It is almost refreshing, actually, that Irving wasn't an academic weasel.

I disagree with the ADL, which claims in the link above that Irving continues to promote Holocaust Denial. I guess what they mean is that he still doesn't believe that there were gaschambers at Auschwitz. Thoughtcrime!

Well, that thesis was basically already torpedoed forever if not actually disproved (ironically if not intentionally) by pharmacist Claude Pressac, not to mention the actual evidence-based Holodeniers like Fred Leuchter and (chemist) Germar Rudolf. Even journalist Fritjof Meyer--with his "unassailable" Leftist credentials--minimizes the Auschwitz gassing thesis to a bare-bones "Red Hut & White Hut" improvisation on the outskirts of Birkenau--and hence archaeologically unverifiable.

But the boring and irascibly inconvenient truth really doesn't matter to the ADL. What matters is that Auschwitz retain at any cost its high perch atop the Grand Guignol of atrocity-propaganda centered on Jews. Besides, the Reinhardt Camps are less museum-worthy material.

Irving does attract some weird groupies for some reason. He seems to know how to tell them what they want to hear, whether anti-Semitic or not.

But it seems to me that much of this is actually a reaction to the hysteria of his Leftist opponents. I have seen these so-called Anarchists protesting an Irving talk and book signing in Phoenix a few years ago. Some of them were tattooed and sported bandanas over their faces like "Che" wannabes; they were certainly unwashed (and probably unable to afford any deodorant in Phoenix in July). The police were called out to protect their rights of free-speech, to boo and hiss about Irving's Holodenier tour, and demands to shut down the seedy midtown Cafe that was impiously allowing Irving to autograph books and break bread with the locals. At least the police made the protesters do so from the sidewalk of the cafe instead of blocking the doorway.

Some local "Southern Poverty Law Squirrel" (or something like that) -type name Dennis Gilman was out there videotaping the anti-Irving protest as if he were Spielberg reporting on the revolution, and otherwise documenting Minutemen or outing neo-Nazis, as the bemused patrons went in and out of the restaurant to smoke.

It seemed to me there were a grand total of five or six neo-Nazis there sporting Sieg Heils for the occasion, including the control-freak J.T. Ready, who ultimately shot and killed his family early last Summer, including his Mexican girlfriend and himself. I never saw those histrionics at the event, as I was there mainly to paw through Irving's books that were brought there for sales and signings.

Anyway, I missed the last Irving soiree. Not surprisingly, it had to be held at a different eatery in Phoenix in the Fall of 2012--and I don't know if the peripatetic "Anarchists" attended that one or not, as only the scumbag local tabloid New Times ever covers these things. The New Times reporter claimed that the eatery where Irving had been coming was a local Gay hangout, and the previous events did seem to attract some rather "curious" types.

Irving does have a penchant for bringing along really hot blondes as his personal assistants. He implies that he sells more books that way. (She does take credit cards for the books.) That wasn't why I bought a stack of his books and got him to sign them, but the girl was nice. And let's face it, the people that I have seen who normally go to Irving literary conventions are not exactly historians and intellectuals--let alone fashion model-worthy. The protestors were surprisingly numerous but didn't quite measure up to Central Casting expectations either. The intellectual elite (at least here in the USA) are too petty and corrupt to be interested in what Irving likes to call Real history, so it is no surprise that the establishment media would not be interested.

:)

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest