Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

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Werd
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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:07 am
What about the rest? It amounts to c900,000 people.
In Auschwitz?
There is an abundance of evidence for the ones we know about. Most were famously tattooed. They were registered to work or there are records they arrived at other camps, such as Stutthof.

There is then no evidence at all for the rest. No witnesses, documents, nothing. The Nazis kept records of the Jews they had painstakingly registered, but there is nothing for the group not selected to work on arrival at Birkenau.
Why would Nazis keep records of Jews they don't need to work?
One must take into account certain factors. Jews often didn't return to their home country, some of them were moved around by Soviets, some of them changed their names and hid their religion.
That is after the war. You have jumped forward a year at least.
If Nazis were pushing Jews out in 1944 into the East, then of course they aren't home. And many didn't or couldn't return home. And they often changed their names and hid their religion. If others Jews are doing in in 1945 for reasons, why not Jews in 1944 for same reasons?
The records tell us how many went missing inside Birkenau.
What records?

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Nessie
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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 4:39 pm
Nessie wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:07 am
What about the rest? It amounts to c900,000 people.
In Auschwitz?
My best estimate specific to Birkenau.
There is an abundance of evidence for the ones we know about. Most were famously tattooed. They were registered to work or there are records they arrived at other camps, such as Stutthof.

There is then no evidence at all for the rest. No witnesses, documents, nothing. The Nazis kept records of the Jews they had painstakingly registered, but there is nothing for the group not selected to work on arrival at Birkenau.
Why would Nazis keep records of Jews they don't need to work?
Because they registered all Jews, not just those who could work.

Because they would have still be transporting, feeding, clothing and accommodating them, according to you.
One must take into account certain factors. Jews often didn't return to their home country, some of them were moved around by Soviets, some of them changed their names and hid their religion.
That is after the war. You have jumped forward a year at least.
If Nazis were pushing Jews out in 1944 into the East, then of course they aren't home. And many didn't or couldn't return home. And they often changed their names and hid their religion. If others Jews are doing in in 1945 for reasons, why not Jews in 1944 for same reasons?
You cannot evidence they left Birkenau, let alone they were pushed east.
The records tell us how many went missing inside Birkenau.
What records?
Records of transports to the camp, minus the records of how many were registered to work.

Unless you can evidence they left the camp, then I do not have any reason to believe they left the camp.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Werd
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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 5:51 pm
My best estimate specific to Birkenau.
Based on...?
they would have still be transporting, feeding, clothing and accommodating them, according to you.
I'm sure I asked you earlier what was wrong with dumping Jews off at the East and just leaving them there to fend for themselves. Then it devolved into why many people would have noticed them and made a fuss. And then I said recall Crowell's article where many Jews didn't return to their home countries and many changed their names and hid their religion. As the topic about Polish name changes showed, many Poles who were pushed East into Russia came back to Poland but with name changes.
Unless you can evidence they left the camp, then I do not have any reason to believe they left the camp.
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=170016#p170016
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=170020#p170020
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=169484#p169484
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=169485#p169485

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Nessie
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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 2:29 am
Nessie wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 5:51 pm
My best estimate specific to Birkenau.
Based on...?
Evidence, for example;

https://remember.org/history-root-rev.html

"Estimates of the number of people who were gassed to death in Auschwitz vary, but the lowest is 900,000, and the highest about 1,600,000."

"the gas chamber of Krema I was used only for a short time, before the conversion. This, and the fact that “only” about ten thousand people were murdered inside it, compared to three-hundred-fifty-thousand and four-hundred-thousand in Kremas II and III"

There is also specific documentation regarding arrivals and who was selected to work, for example;

http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm

"Assuming that Veesenmayer’s figure of 437,402 deported Jews is correct, and subtracting 15,000 Jews who went to Strasshof and 104,000 Jews not gassed upon arrival, and rounding the result, we can conclude that about 320,000 Hungarian Jews were gassed"
they would have still be transporting, feeding, clothing and accommodating them, according to you.
I'm sure I asked you earlier what was wrong with dumping Jews off at the East and just leaving them there to fend for themselves. Then it devolved into why many people would have noticed them and made a fuss.
1 - there is a chronological gap, you need evidence they left Birkenau first before you can claim they ended up in the east.
2 - That would leave evidence, of which there is none. From Jews themselves or locals, who of course would make a fuss about hundreds of thousands of starving Jews needing to be fed, clothed and accommodated.
3 - Deniers claim Jews in the east were helping partisans and that justifies EG documents recording the execution of Jews.
4 - everywhere else Jews were treated as the enemy and sent to ghettos and camps. Leaving them in the east is handing a resource to the Soviet enemy to use.
And then I said recall Crowell's article where many Jews didn't return to their home countries and many changed their names and hid their religion. As the topic about Polish name changes showed, many Poles who were pushed East into Russia came back to Poland but with name changes.
Which happens after the war. You ignore a large chronological gap.
I have checked those links and there is no evidence there that the people not selected to work left the camp. You have produced no witnesses, no documents, nothing else. You are using a form of argument you know is faulty, where you claim they were not gassed and they probably went missing, which they could not have done inside the camp. The last link is to Mattogno who is trying to claim the elevator could not cope, therefore no mass cremations, therefore no gassings, therefore they left the camp. That is clearly a flawed argument. You need evidence to evidence they left the camp.

Unless you can evidence they left the camp, then I do not have any reason to believe they left the camp.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Werd
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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:33 am
Evidence, for example;

https://remember.org/history-root-rev.html

"Estimates of the number of people who were gassed to death in Auschwitz vary, but the lowest is 900,000, and the highest about 1,600,000."
And what is this based on? Do you wanna just keep going around in circles?
http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm

"Assuming that Veesenmayer’s figure of 437,402 deported Jews is correct, and subtracting 15,000 Jews who went to Strasshof and 104,000 Jews not gassed upon arrival, and rounding the result, we can conclude that about 320,000 Hungarian Jews were gassed"
Deja vu.
viewtopic.php?p=125433#p125433
His list is problematic.
you need evidence they left Birkenau first before you can claim they ended up in the east.
Considering all the holes in the official story, it's unlikely that many were gassed. Either no gassings, or limited gassings based on the elevators and imperfect ovens alone. Not to mention the chemistry Leuchter and Rudolf conducted on those rooms.

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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 11:37 am
Nessie wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:33 am
Evidence, for example;

https://remember.org/history-root-rev.html

"Estimates of the number of people who were gassed to death in Auschwitz vary, but the lowest is 900,000, and the highest about 1,600,000."
And what is this based on? Do you wanna just keep going around in circles?
The records of transports to the camp and how many were selected to work. I have told you that before. Try and remember and we will stop going round in circles. :roll:
http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm

"Assuming that Veesenmayer’s figure of 437,402 deported Jews is correct, and subtracting 15,000 Jews who went to Strasshof and 104,000 Jews not gassed upon arrival, and rounding the result, we can conclude that about 320,000 Hungarian Jews were gassed"
Deja vu.
viewtopic.php?p=125433#p125433
His list is problematic.
Which is why I give circa numbers, since there are gaps we can only estimate. :roll:
you need evidence they left Birkenau first before you can claim they ended up in the east.
Considering all the holes in the official story, it's unlikely that many were gassed. Either no gassings, or limited gassings based on the elevators and imperfect ovens alone. Not to mention the chemistry Leuchter and Rudolf conducted on those rooms.
Is it no gassings or limited gassings?

You have chopped out your claims about name changes and Jews being dumped in the east. Do you now accept that before that could happen, those people have to have left Birkenau in the first place and that is where we need to start?

Remember, unless you can evidence they left the camp, then I do not have any reason to believe they left the camp.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Werd
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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:55 pm
Evidence, for example;
https://remember.org/history-root-rev.html
"Estimates of the number of people who were gassed to death in Auschwitz vary, but the lowest is 900,000, and the highest about 1,600,000."
Actual quote:
Estimates of the number of people who were gassed to death in Auschwitz vary, but the lowest is 900,000, and the highest about 1,600,000. It is obvious that the extermination and cremation facilities in Auschwitz could take care of such a number.
And what is THEIR proof?
The records of transports to the camp and how many were selected to work.
Anything else from that link?
There were five Kremas in Auschwitz. Number II, for instance, had 15 huge furnaces, especially designed to burn efficiently and quickly. Each could consume 3 to 4 bodies at once (remember that many children were present, and many of the people were emaciated), and do so in a maximum of 45 minutes.
Each muffle or each oven? This isn't clear. Try again.
Deja vu.
viewtopic.php?p=125433#p125433
His list is problematic.
Which is why I give circa numbers, since there are gaps we can only estimate.
So quit citing his list as if its perfect and gives us certainty.
You have chopped out your claims about name changes and Jews being dumped in the east. Do you now accept that before that could happen, those people have to have left Birkenau in the first place and that is where we need to start?
Nope. I left it out because it's not relevant to the stupid stuff you said about that problematic list we already discussed years ago.
Remember, unless you can evidence they left the camp, then I do not have any reason to believe they left the camp.
Unless you can evidence that the mass numbers claimed were gassed and burned up in those ovens, I have reason to believe either limited or no gassings.

Werd
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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:55 pm
Evidence, for example;
https://remember.org/history-root-rev.html
They only mention Leuchter and Pressac. This article does NOT mention Rudolf and Mattogno who corrected many mistakes Leucher made.
2.02 The Explosive Property of Zyklon B & Furnace Proximity

Holocaust denial often asserts that Zyklon B could not have been used for killing in the gas chambers, because it is explosive, and the furnaces were nearby. They overlook, however the fact that the concentration of HCN necessary to cause death is nearly 200 times lower than that necessary to cause an explosion. Although the SS used a concentration higher than the lethal one, it was far less than what would be required to cause an explosion.
As a reference, one can look at “The Merck Index” and the “CRC handbook of Chemistry and Physics”, or consult any manual dealing with toxicity and flammability of chemicals. For HCN, a concentration of 300 ppm (parts per million) kills humans within a few minutes (Merck, 632, entry 4688), while the minimal concentration that can result in an explosion is 56,000 ppm.
Berg and Mattogno already addressed Leuchter's error.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1980&start=20

Remember.org has no argument here with their outdated article. It's author is Daniel Keren. Mattogno already destroyed his work in AUSCHWITZ LIES. From 2018:
Werd wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:45 pm
Nessie wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:11 am
You also dismissed;

"3) Physical investigation in 1998-2000 by Keren, McCarthy and Mazal to discover if gas introduction holes were still visible on the remains of the roof of crem 2. Evidence of 3 holes were discovered."

which is easily verifiable and indeed there have been others who have declared no holes after a physical examination of the roof. That shows the result is being dismissed, rather than when Keren et al did is not empirical evidence.
This report proved nothing and Mattogno ripped it to shreds in AUSCHWITZ LIES.
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/18-al.pdf
You can start on page 279 for the "elusive holes of death."

But I know you won't read it. You always dodged. You don't even read what is suggested to you. You have a history of dodging and making excuses to not read Mattogno because deep down you know that what he says is true. I.E. The multiple sonderkommando issue.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3163&start=20

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Nessie
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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 4:12 pm
Nessie wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 1:55 pm
.....Remember, unless you can evidence they left the camp, then I do not have any reason to believe they left the camp.
Unless you can evidence that the mass numbers claimed were gassed and burned up in those ovens, I have reason to believe either limited or no gassings.
I do produce evidence. You just disagree with it. You do not produce any evidence those people you say were gassed even left the camp.

Do you accept that there could well have been limited gassings?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
I do produce evidence. You just disagree with it. You do not produce any evidence those people you say were gassed even left the camp.
Meanwhile, Nessie just ignores the fact that thousands of men, women and children were transported out of the super secret extermination facility of Treblinka. Nessie claims to have evidence that people were gassed in the gas chambers but can't come up with any witnesses to support his thesis that there weren't any hermetically sealed gas/vacuum chambers at Treblinka. Nessie jukes and jives and endlessly weasel dodges that question but there it is. Where are your witnesses who claim that the hermetically sealed gas/vacuum chambers were actually well ventilated and the witnesses who claim otherwise are mistaken? The chances of Nessie ever answering that simple question runs the gamut from fat to slim.

We await with bated breath your next weasel dodge, Nessie.

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