What are national socialism and fascism?

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Alonso
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What are national socialism and fascism?

Post by Alonso »

For most of my life I have believed that the words nazi and fascist roughly meant evil people. Now that I have started to understand the huge propaganda program created to smear Hitler and the nazis I'm questioning this belief. However, it is clear to me that mainstream sources are not reliable when it comes to this kind of topic. I started to read about national socialism in the encyclopaedia Britannica and I was baffled to see this:
annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk [was] the one and only goal of Nazi policy
Such an absurd statement in the heading of the article on national socialism almost guarantees that everything else in that article is rubbish, so I can't even use it to get some basic facts. I don't expect any better from other mainstream sources, so I've no idea of where to look to find out what nazism and fascism actually were and what they are now. So my question is: What are some reliable sources I can use to learn what fascism and national socialism actually are?


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VFX
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Re: What are national socialism and fascism?

Post by VFX »

National Socialism is a fancy way of saying a "Labour Party"; the name arose from the ideals of the German Workers Party (Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, DAP) started by Anton Drexler (along with Dietrich Eckart, Gottfried Feder and Karl Harrer). The DAP only lasted from 5 January 1919 until 24 February 1920. In an attempt to make the party more broadly appealing to larger segments of the population, the DAP was renamed the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP) on 24 February. The name was borrowed from Deutsche Nationalsozialistische Arbeiterpartei which was in existence at the time. Herr Hitler preferred the name "the Social Revolutionary Party".

Many of the early members of the NSDAP were unemployed soldiers who wanted to restore national pride back to a very humiliated country. Herr Hitler considered his beliefs and party socialist in nature admiring the works of Karl Marx which he considered quite different to the very threatening Jewish inspired Bolshevik Communists who had recently disposed of their Czar.

A split was apparent shortly after elections that there were differences of opinion, especially those in the Sturmabteilung (SA) and those within the Schutzstaffel (SS), both paramilitary organizations, the difference being the sheer numbers in the SA (4.5 million). This threat headed by Röhm was averted in the Röhm putsch. The Sturmabteilung were effectively neutered.

Prior to this Gregor Straßer said in his speech to the Reichstag on the following:
We National Socialists want the economic revolution involving the nationalization of the economy...We want in place of an exploitative capitalist economic system a real socialism, maintained not by a soulless Jewish-materialist outlook but by the believing, sacrificial, and unselfish old German community sentiment, community purpose and economic feeling. We want the social revolution in order to bring about the national revolution.
Gregors brother Otto escaped the purge and formed "the Black front" in opposition to Hitlerism. His brand of Nazism is referred to as Strasserism.

At this point it is considered by many that National Socialism reverted to Hitlerism and the followers called Hitlerites. Old documents on WWII constantly refer to this.

It is only the victors that declare National Socialism as extreme right wing, totally dishonest. In fact most democratic societies today are National Socialist but do not use those words.

Of course it stands without saying that National Socialism is about working class propriety, preservation of culture through use of proper border controls; it is a fact that there are many beautiful things in Europe that may not be appreciated by foreign cultures, such as Schloss Neuschwanstein at Hohenschwangau or the works of Beethoven. Enjoying ones own people and culture does not mean denigrating others but it does not mean assimilation either.

It should be obvious that the Neo Nazis and white wing extremists have nothing to do with National Socialism; these seem to be inspired by others who have little interest in reality just their own fake ideologies and temperoral power.

National Socialism has been described as fascism, but this seems to be more Russian or Soviet inspired as the word comes up in one of their national hate songs. The Communists think globally where as the Fascists as inspired by Mussolini think only in a national level; apart from that there is little difference; however, it has become an epithet for all evil.
Der Nationalsozialismus ist ein Protest gegen jeden Staat, der ihnen die Würde verweigert.

Alonso
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Re: What are national socialism and fascism?

Post by Alonso »

Thank you for your answer, but you seem to assume that I have some basic background on this topic, which is really not the case. All my previous "knowledge" comes from manipulated and deceitful school books, teachers, movies, etc. Acknowledging that all of this is essentially deceitful propaganda means that I'm back at square one (which I never actually left, if you think about it), so what I'm looking for are the very basics. Something like a national socialist manifesto and a fascist manifesto, something that assumes no previous knowledge at all.

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Huntinger
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Re: What are national socialism and fascism?

Post by Huntinger »

The early workers party had 25 points which was adopted by its successor. These point catered for the political needs at the time.
These points are probably not appropriate in all aspects in modern day societies. While Strasserists exist to this day in one form or another, the Sturmabteilung never died. Many of their kin follow the pride in which their fathers, mothers , brothers and sisters saw the swastika as a symbol of peace, liberation and unity. In a sense the Sturmabteilung and Strasser co existed; Herr Hitler changed the brand. The Strasserists and the Sturmabteilung represent the pre Hitler form of working class propriety. We are humble, really boring actually, but the alleged holocaust and the war turned the aspirations of mankind on its head; what you are reading is the reversal of reality. Jude got their revenge for their exposure, at least in the interim.
25 points
  • We demand the unification of all Germans in the Greater Germany on the basis of the people's right to self-determination.
  • We demand equality of rights for the German people in respect to the other nations; abrogation of the peace treaties of Versailles and St. Germain.
  • We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people and colonization for our surplus population.
  • Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently, no Jew can be a member of the race.
  • Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest and must be under the authority of legislation for foreigners.
  • The right to determine matters concerning administration and law belongs only to the citizen. Therefore, we demand that every public office, of any sort whatsoever, whether in the Reich, the county or municipality, be filled only by citizens.
  • We combat the corrupting parliamentary economy, office-holding only according to party inclinations without consideration of character or abilities.
  • We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.
  • Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich.
  • All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.
  • The first obligation of every citizen must be to productively work mentally or physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all. Consequently, we demand:
  • Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
  • In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore, we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
  • We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
  • We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
  • We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
  • We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.
  • We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
  • We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
  • We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.
  • The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the state must be striven for by the school [Staatsbürgerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the state of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
  • The state is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
  • We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.
  • We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that:
  • a. All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race;
    b. Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the state to be published. They may not be printed in the German language;
    c. Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications or any influence on them and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.
  • We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: "The good of the community before the good of the individual".
  • For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑
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Scott
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Re: What are national socialism and fascism?

Post by Scott »

Alonso wrote:
What are national socialism and fascism?

I think these are good questions. I've been a bit busy of late but I'll try provide some perspectives and answers soon.

:-)

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

Alonso
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Re: What are national socialism and fascism?

Post by Alonso »

Scott wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:04 am
Alonso wrote:
What are national socialism and fascism?

I think these are good questions. I've been a bit busy of late but I'll try provide some perspectives and answers soon.

:-)
Looking forward to those. In Spain the terms "fascist" and "nazi" are constantly used in a derogatory way that essentially means "far right bigot". However, the word fascist (and lots of derived terms) is used far more often than the word nazi. Through this website and others I've acquired some basic knowledge of what nazism actually is and how wrong it is to use it that way. However, given that the word "fascist" is used far more often where I live, I'm specially interested in understanding its actual meaning. My intuition is that there might be a deception regarding fascism similar to the one regarding nazism, but the truth is that I know close to nothing about it.

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Re: What are national socialism and fascism?

Post by Alonso »

Huntinger wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:55 pm
The early workers party had 25 points which was adopted by its successor.
Some of these points sound great, but others sound dreadful, actually quite close to what is commonly depicted in antinazi propaganda.
Huntinger wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:55 pm
We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people and colonization for our surplus population.
If I'm getting it right this is a demand for colonial slavery. I'm aware that that was the practice of many European nations at the time (including mine), but that doesn't make it any less dreadful.
Huntinger wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:55 pm
Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood.
It looks like this point and all the other points based on this one mean the mistreatment and discrimination of non nationals. If your country and mine follow these policies, it means that I will be mistreated when I go to your country, and you will be mistreated when you come to mine.

I'm aware that these policies were proposed in the context of the de facto slavery of Germans created by the treaty of Versailles, and with the purpose of finishing that horrible situation. But the way they are expressed they seem to be bound to replace the horrors of Versailles with something equally horrible.

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k0nsl
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Re: What are national socialism and fascism?

Post by k0nsl »

I briefly touched upon some of this many years ago in a blog post titled "What is the difference between Marxism and National Socialism?". The illustrations are missing, but I think it makes a good point even without them.
That post gives some insight into national socialism, at least. And the difference between that ideology and Marxism.

Faithfully,
-k0nsl
The Jew is a falsifier and a cheat! The Jew is congenitally corrupt! Shun the Jew! — Telemachus Timayenis, The American Jew: An Expose of His Career‎ (1888)

Alonso
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Re: What are national socialism and fascism?

Post by Alonso »

k0nsl wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:29 am
I briefly touched upon some of this many years ago in a blog post titled [url=https://k0nsl.org/blog/responses/what-i ... socialism/]
I've just read your blog posts "The Differance Between Fascists and National Socialists" and "Benito Mussolini: The Last Centurion". I was looking for information on fascism, and while they touch on some of its aspects, they don't really define it. Are you aware of some source where I can get the general picture? In your posts you recommend the book "The last Centurion", but ideally I would like to start with something shorter.

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Re: What are national socialism and fascism?

Post by blake121666 »

Google (with the quotes in there) "What is Fascism". I just did and found many links for you to explore.

For instance, this one here looks even-handed about the matter. You'll of course come across alot of anti-fascist links though.

Maurice Bardèche called himself a neo-fascist postwar and even wrote a long discourse on just this question called "Qu’est-ce que le fascisme?" in 1961. I see that Counter-Currents has the third part, "The Fascist Dream", online (in three parts itself):

The Fascist Dream, Part 1
The Fascist Dream, Part 2
The Fascist Dream, Part 3

You can click on the byline on any of those posts to see all the Maurice Bardèche articles on that site.

Fascism is essentially a corporatized socialism - strong but delimited control of private corporations within the state - control defined and delimited only on matters thought ideologically essential for the state.

German National Socialism I suppose could be considered a type of fascism with an obsession with peculiar delusions about the concept of "race" (or a "Volk" - "ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer"). Ironically, the "Huntinger" who posts here thinks he is some sort of neo-NS who thinks that race doesn't exist! A blood folk concept (filial socialism) was thought the basis of the German National Socialism by the NSDAP though. That is what was meant by "Herrenvolk", btw. It didn't really mean "master race" but more like "preferred race" or "kindred" or similar. The race that IS the state (or "Volk" if you prefer). NS's core concept was this.

Such concepts naturally arose from a modern large state being created from the pre-existing confederated "German" states. What were the bases to make a large "German" state? People like Hitler rationalized it as race-based at core. Not so much so with Mussolini - given the obviously racially inhomogenous state of Italy! But both states were largely influenced by the kulturekampf of their relatively recent state-building eras and had similar ideas about the bases for their relatively new "modern" states. The outcome of WW1 was of course a dominant influence on German political thinking - Russian Bolshevism was a dominant concern for both states (anti-Communism). But also anti-Capitalism of course.

A current example of the NS idea would be most Israeli's concept of a "Jewish state". The basis of the state is that its inhabitants are Jewish (in a racist "folk" way).

Racist self-worship was the basis of NS. Such concepts rouse the rabble - which is politics for you! Makes the trains run on time. ;)

Hitler was the consummate rabble-rouser. "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit" would describe NS for the German polity. People like Huntinger are still baffled by it.

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