Katyn

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Goody67
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Re: Katyn

Post by Goody67 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:29 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:12 am
This movie about Katyn is worthy to watch. It shows the massacre from another perspective and also shows the Soviets in their true light: this is not to demean the Russian people but the Bolsheviks who the Reich was fighting.
The Nazis were also against the Russian people.

Influenced by guidelines, General Erich Hoepner of the Panzer Group 4 stated to the troops under his command:
The war against Russia is an important chapter in the German nation's struggle for existence. It is the old battle of the Germanic against the Slavic people, of the defence of European culture against Muscovite-Asiatic inundation and of the repulse of Jewish Bolshevism. The objective of this battle must be the demolition of present-day Russia and must therefore be conducted with unprecedented severity. Every military action must be guided in planning and execution by an iron resolution to exterminate the enemy remorselessly and totally. In particular, no adherents of the contemporary Russian Bolshevik system are to be spared.
Himmler to the Eastern Front Battle Group "Nord" said:
It is a war of ideologies and struggle races. On one side stands National Socialism: ideology, founded on the values of our Germanic, Nordic blood. It is worth the world as we want to see: beautiful, orderly, fair, socially, a world that may be, still suffers some flaws, but overall a happy, beautiful world filled with culture, which is precisely Germany. On the other side stands the 180 millionth people, a mixture of races and peoples, whose names are unpronounceable, and whose physical nature is such that the only thing that they can do - is to shoot without pity or mercy. These animals, which are subjected to torture and ill-treatment of each prisoner from our side, which do not have medical care they captured our wounded, as do the decent men, you will see them for yourself. These people have joined a Jewish religion, one ideology, called Bolshevism, with the task of: having now Russian, half [located] in Asia, parts of Europe, crush Germany and the world. When you, my friends, are fighting in the East, you keep that same fight against the same subhumans, against the same inferior races that once appeared under the name of Huns, and later - 1,000 years ago during the time of King Henry and Otto I, - the name of the Hungarians, and later under the name of Tatars, and then they came again under the name of Genghis Khan and the Mongols. Today they are called Russian under the political banner of Bolshevism
Himmler said during the Posen speech:
One basic principle must be the absolute rule for the SS men: We must be honest, decent, loyal and comradely to members of our own blood and to nobody else. What happens to a Russian, to a Czech, does not interest me in the slightest. What other nations can offer in the way of good blood of our type, we will take, if necessary, by kidnapping their children and raising them here with us. Whether nations live in prosperity or starve to death interests me only so far as we need them as slaves for our culture; otherwise, it is of no interest to me. Whether 10,000 Russian females fall down from exhaustion while digging an antitank ditch interests me only insofar as the anti-tank ditch for Germany is finished.
In Das Reich, the Russians were considered to have a "beastial soul". Russians weren't even considered to be Europeans but "Asiatic". A common saying until 1942 was, "The Russian is a beast, he must croak" (Der Russe sei eine Bestie, er muesse verrecken)".

Many Germans expressed their thoughts about the Russians, one said, that the Russians were "no longer human beings, but wild hordes and beasts, who have been bred by Bolshevism during the last 20 years."

Himmler stated in a 1940 secret memorandum (which Hitler described as "very good" and agreed with all of the policies):
For the non-German population of the East there must be no higher school than the four-grade elementary school. The sole goal of this school is to be--

Simply arithmetic up to 500 at the most; writing of one's name; the doctrine that it is a divine law to obey the Germans and to be honest, industrious, and good. I don't think that reading is necessary.
The non-German people in the same memorandum were also called the "subhuman people of the East".
It will also give another perspective of the War instead of just Shoah this and Shoah that.
If you bothered to read books and watch documentaries you would know that all aspects of the Nazis, the Third Reich, WW2, the Holocaust, etc, are all covered respectively. The reason the Holocaust is studied is because it was such a big part of WW2. The Nazis were more interested in killing Jews than winning a war!
I think the world is sick to death of Jews: the world has had enough; they have played their last hand and the last card is perhaps on the table. It is now time to call Trumps.
Elaborate on this antisemitic statement.
The question that comes to mind always when thinking about Katyn is the Soviet involvement in the alleged holocaust: what other atrocities are there undiscovered? In all honesty it is now suspected the whole scenario was Soviet inspired.
You're not making any sense. It has been established for a long time that the Katyn massacre was committed by people that were mostly part of the Soviet secret police.
Deniers are a few bricks short of a load.

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Re: Katyn

Post by been-there » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:35 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:29 pm
The Nazis were more interested in killing Jews than winning a war!
Any one who believes that has no capacity to reason logically nor to comprehend WW2 history accurately.

That statement is more a sign of 'Jewish' psychology than of historical accuracy.
The need to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: Katyn

Post by Goody67 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:41 pm

been-there wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:35 pm
Any one who believes that has no capacity to reason logically nor to comprehend WW2 history accurately.

That statement is more a sign of 'Jewish' psychology than of historical accuracy.
The need to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral.
During the war, the Nazis were more focused on transporting Jews to their deaths than winning the war.

Hitler was so cocky he thought the war in Russia was going to be over in a few months, the Austrian Corporal was an idiot.
Deniers are a few bricks short of a load.

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Re: Katyn

Post by been-there » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:54 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:41 pm
Goody67 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:29 pm
The Nazis were more interested in killing Jews than winning a war!
been-there wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:35 pm
Any one who believes that has no capacity to reason logically nor to comprehend WW2 history accurately.

That statement is more a sign of 'Jewish' psychology than of historical accuracy.
The need to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral.
During the war, the Nazis were more focused on transporting Jews to their deaths than winning the war.
Ha ha! :lol:

Just repeating your obviously erroneous belief, like some sacred creed or mantra, obviously does not make it either more true or more convincing. Such behaviour is exactly that of a religious true-believer: "Jesus IS the Son of God", and "Mohammed is the last Prophet of Allah".

Your Shoah 'belief' has become your religion. And you are repeating quite obviously ridiculous ideas to justify this religious belief to yourself. Try thinking them through again.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: Katyn

Post by Goody67 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:44 pm

been-there wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:54 pm
Ha ha! :lol:

Just repeating your obviously erroneous belief, like some sacred creed or mantra, obviously does not make it either more true or more convincing. Such behaviour is exactly that of a religious true-believer: "Jesus IS the Son of God", and "Mohammed is the last Prophet of Allah".

Your Shoah 'belief' has become your religion. And you are repeating quite obviously ridiculous ideas to justify this religious belief to yourself. Try thinking them through again.
Hardly. I have simply posted quotes from the Nazis that demonstrate quite clearly that the extermination of the Jews was a main priority for the Nazis. Hitler said that the war would bring about the total annihilation of the Jews. Goebbels even publicly said what was happening to the Jews in articles.
Deniers are a few bricks short of a load.

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Re: Katyn

Post by Huntinger » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:48 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:29 pm
The Nazis were also against the Russian people.
This thread intention stated by Friedrich is:
How many more people were murdered by the Soviets and their successors because of American complicity in this monstrous hoax and crime.
Whether or not the Nazis were against the Russian people is not relevant to this thread: that little fantasy is dealt with elsewhere.
Goody67 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:29 pm
The reason the Holocaust is studied is because it was such a big part of WW2. The Nazis were more interested in killing Jews than winning a war!

Here the Katyn massacre is being discussed not the reasons why you think the alleged Shoah is studied. Your somewhat bizarre comments are off topic.
Goody67 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:29 pm
You're not making any sense. It has been established for a long time that the Katyn massacre was committed by people that were mostly part of the Soviet secret police.
Katyn was a forbidden topic in postwar Poland. Censors suppressed all references to it. Even mentioning the atrocity meant risking reprisal. Recent historical research shows that 700-900 of the victims were Polish Jews.
To hide their massive crimes the USSR claimed the Nazis had murdered the victims in 1941 and it continued to deny responsibility for the massacres until 1990. In January 1944, the Soviet Union sent another commission, the Extraordinary State Commission for ascertaining and investigating crimes perpetrated by the German-Fascist invaders to the site; the commission's name implied a predestined conclusion. This commission was headed by Nikolai Burdenko. The Burdenko Commission exhumed the bodies, rejected the 1943 German findings the Poles were shot by the Soviet army, assigned the guilt to the Nazis, and concluded all the shootings were done by German occupation forces in autumn of 1941. Despite a lack of evidence, it also blamed the Germans for shooting Russian prisoners of war they used as labor to dig the pits. While this commission was independent the falsified reports and cover-ups by the NKVD could allow for no other conclusion.

The point that is of concern is the other massive crimes and cover-ups which probably were committed by Berias Secret Police and blamed on the Germans. American complicity is also apparent: Capt Donald B. Stewart and Col. John H. Van Vliet sent secret messages to the US implicating the Soviets. Major General Clayton Lawrence Bissell, General George Marshall's assistant chief of staff for intelligence, destroyed the report. Washington kept the information secret, presumably to appease Stalin and not distract from the war against the Nazis.

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Re: Katyn

Post by Goody67 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:54 pm

Huntinger,

For nearly three decades since the official investigations took place the world has known what happened. What is your point?

You're very keen to point out the double standards of hiding information from people and yet you deny that the Nazis did this after they had murdered the Jews. Why is that?
Deniers are a few bricks short of a load.

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Re: Katyn

Post by Huntinger » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:17 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:54 pm
For nearly three decades since the official investigations took place the world has known what happened. What is your point?
The point is stated in the implied thread intention.
The Soviets killed 900 Jews at Katyn.(I am sure they are part of the holocaust list). The Germans only killed Partisans and enemy combatants in hot war, though there are records of legitimate executions for spying, sabotage etc, some of course being Jews. Of course comrade Stalin knew that many Partisans were Jewish as well, instigating them to sabotage German supply lines. If caught these were dealt with in a summary manner. No one is hiding this fact but the Einsatz group is not really being discussed here at the moment. Once again there is an attempt to derail the thread by changing from Soviet culpability to National Socialist one. Even if the Nazis did commit awful crimes, gassed jews accidentally while delousing them or whatever, or making them work for a change, it is the Soviet atrocities that are being looked at and the extent of the US cover-up. What comes to mind with the Katyn event and the US complicity is the extent to which Jews played in the evil deeds. Thoughts on this welcome.

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Re: Katyn

Post by Goody67 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:21 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:17 pm
The point is stated in the implied thread intention.
The Soviets killed 900 Jews at Katyn.(I am sure they are part of the holocaust list). The Germans only killed Partisans and enemy combatants in hot war, though there are records of legitimate executions for spying, sabotage etc, some of course being Jews. Of course comrade Stalin knew that many Partisans were Jewish as well, instigating them to sabotage German supply lines. If caught these were dealt with in a summary manner. No one is hiding this fact but the Einsatz group is not really being discussed here at the moment. Once again there is an attempt to derail the thread by changing from Soviet culpability to National Socialist one. Even if the Nazis did commit awful crimes, gassed jews accidentally while delousing them or whatever, or making them work for a change, it is the Soviet atrocities that are being looked at and the extent of the US cover-up. What comes to mind with the Katyn event and the US complicity is the extent to which Jews played in the evil deeds. Thoughts on this welcome.
You think that the Nazis only killed partisans and enemy combatants? :roll:
Deniers are a few bricks short of a load.

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Re: Katyn

Post by been-there » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:40 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:44 pm
been-there wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:54 pm
Ha ha! :lol:

Just repeating your obviously erroneous belief, like some sacred creed or mantra, obviously does not make it either more true or more convincing. Such behaviour is exactly that of a religious true-believer: "Jesus IS the Son of God", and "Mohammed is the last Prophet of Allah".

Your Shoah 'belief' has become your religion. And you are repeating quite obviously ridiculous ideas to justify this religious belief to yourself. Try thinking them through again.
Hardly. I have simply posted quotes from the Nazis that demonstrate quite clearly that the extermination of the Jews was a main priority for the Nazis. Hitler said that the war would bring about the total annihilation of the Jews. Goebbels even publicly said what was happening to the Jews in articles.
But as previously explained Hitler and Goebbels didn't write in English.
You don't know exactly what Hitler and Goebbels actually said and wrote because you are relying on translators and historians who are neither impartial nor objective. Nor do you know the complexity and totality of their viewpoints. And as already explained you are believing these biased translated, cherry-picked comments where they were talking a 'war' rhetoric and feeling a 'war' passion, but you are projecting a belief-system onto it retro-actively, while simultaneously removing it from its 'war' context.

That is NOT the way to conduct fair and accurate historical analysis. I hope you will agree.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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