1st Auschwitz Trial: What was the Auschwitz death toll?

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theblackrabbitofinlé
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1st Auschwitz Trial: What was the Auschwitz death toll?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:08 pm

Image

David Irving has yet again wheeled out the 1948 German newsreel on the December 1947 Krakow-Auschwitz trial, which the lapsed Holocaust denier believes is some sort of proof that the Soviet approved Polish judges judged that just (or as many as) "300,000" were killed at Auschwitz pars pro toto.

1999: http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/con ... u1948.html
2000: http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/transcripts/day02 he introduced this as "evidence" at his trial!
2013: http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/index.html

The newsreel:



Michael Mills told Irving this was rubbish in 1999, and Faurisson said it was wrong as early as 1995.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Letters/History/Mills060899.html
http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/appfaur1.html

Even the two sentence picture caption Irving has just posted on his website is riddled with factual errors:
Rudolf Höss, closest to camera, was hanged by the Poles. "Nearly 300,000 people of various nations died" in Auschwitz 1941-1945, so his Polish judges found in 1948.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/index.html
Defenders of the £aith must be overjoyed that Irving is preparing to jump-ship and confirmed the Hoax, the whole Hoax, and nothing but the Hoax in his forthcoming Himmler book.
http://www.forum.codoh.info/viewtopic.p ... 141#p56961

The 300,000 almost certainly refers to registered inmates only, and excludes unregistered victims. A figure of 300,000 registered inmates, along with a suspected "4,000,000 people mainly Jews" featured in the trial indictment of Rudolf Hoess. His trial, of course, took place in Warsaw seven months earlier than the Krakow-Auschwitz trial in question.

Image

Whether the "300,000" were also mentioned in Hoess' judgement, I don't know.

Image

The source for above two images, also mentions the Krakow-Auschwitz trial, but not a word of the death toll(s):

Image
LAW REPORTS OF TRIALS OF WAR CRIMINALS Selected and prepared by THE UNITED NATIONS WAR CRIMES C0MMISSION VOLUME VII
LONDON PUBLISHED FOR THE UNITED NATIONS WAR CRIMES COMMISSION BY HIS MAJESTY'S STATIONERY OFFICE 1948
http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/ ... _Vol-7.pdf
http://ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/hoess.htm


So ...

What does Holocaust historiography have to save about the Auschwitz death toll ascertained by the Krakow-Auschwitz trial?

The trial isn't even mentioned in Piper's Auschwitz: How Many Perished, not even under his subsection "Figures Determined by Investigating and Prosecuting Agencies and Tribunals"! But hopefully the usual suspects on rodoh, those more familiar with hoaxography, will be able to provide us with what facts Western historians have told us about the Auschwitz death toll determined at this particular trial.



Image

The only mention I can find of anyone referring to the death tolls considered at that trial, was the "Good Man of Auschwitz", former Birkenau doctor Hans Wilhelm Muench. He had been one of the defendants at the Krakow-Auschwitz trial, but was strangely acquitted.

Even stranger, is that just 5 months his acquittal (late Dec 1947), Muench was testifying (11 May 1948) as a "defence" witness at the I G Farben trial in Nuremberg, where he sang like a canary about the homicidal gas chambers, and gassing of the Jews.
http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/fb11d0446a1 ... c0fb19.jpg
DR. HELLMUTH DIX (counsel for defendant Schneider): I have one question. The prosecution stated that four and one half millions were gassed. Is that figure not too high, as far as your information goes?

A. (HANS MUENCH) In the Auschwitz trial in Krakow, three and one-half million were determined as definitely certain. But it was said in that connection it wasn't proven whether perhaps it wasn't more than that.


Image
Nuremberg Military Tribunal: Trial 6: The I. G. Farben Case
The Green Series, Volume VIII, page 321


No need to further wear 'n' tear your keyboard by posting the off-topic, common knowledge fact that Hoess reduced his previous estimates at his trial:
Mr. Willow (or Mr. Berg) may want to explain why the Poles allowed Höss to throw in their face an Auschwitz death toll figure of little more than a million and call the much higher figure they maintained "figments of the imagination" that "lack any foundation", if they were inclined to make those they interrogated tell them what they wanted to hear.

- Roberto Muehlenkamp
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... ncing.html
:mrgreen:
Image
http://archive.jta.org/article/1947/03/ ... t-oswiecim
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsellor, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: 1st Auschwitz Trial: What was the Auschwitz death toll?

Post by Roberto » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:43 pm

theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:
So ...

What does Holocaust historiography have to save about the Auschwitz death toll ascertained by the Krakow-Auschwitz trial?
That it was too high, rabbit. And as you're quoting me, I wasn't referring to the Krakow court's judgment in what I wrote here:
Apart from the fact that he didn't manage to demonstrate that any witness to homicidal gassings lied (except maybe for exaggeration-prone Gerstein, whose testimony, as I pointed out, is only used by historians insofar as corroborated by more objective witnesses like Pfannenstiel and Schluch), Polish criminal justice authorities cannot have been that prone to influencing depositions by witnesses and suspects if one looks at, for instance, the highly inconvenient information provided to them by Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Höss, who had the cheek to tell them that the 4 million estimate of people killed at Auschwitz-Birkenau (endorsed by Poland until the fall of the Iron Curtain) was way above the mark. The statments of Höss in the document The Final Solution of the Jewish Question in Auschwitz read as follows in Constantine FitzGibbon's translation (Commandant of Auschwitz, pp. 193-194, emphasis added):

I myself never knew the total number and I have nothing to help me make an estimate of it.
I can only remember the figure involved in the larger actions, which were repeated to me by Eichmann or his deputies.
From Upper Silesia and Polish territory under German rule … 250,000
Germany and Theresienstadt … 100,000
Holland … 95,000
Belgium … 20,000
France … 110,000
Greece … 65,000
Hungary … 400,000
Slovakia … 90,000
I can no longer remember the figures for the smaller actions, but they were insignificant in comparison with the numbers given above.
I regard a total of two and a half millions as far too high. Even Auschwitz had limits to its destructive possibilities.
Figures given by former prisoners are figments of the imagination and lack any foundation.


Mr. Willow (or Mr. Berg) may want to explain why the Poles allowed Höss to throw in their face an Auschwitz death toll figure of little more than a million and call the much higher figure they maintained "figments of the imagination" that "lack any foundation", if they were inclined to make those they interrogated tell them what they wanted to hear.
The point I made was not that the Poles accepted Höss' statement and figures as accurate, but that their having allowed Höss to make such statement and provide such figures in pretrial interrogations and record them in an attachment to his memoirs, which they kept and later made available to the public, belies the notion that the Poles exercised any undue influence on Höss during his captivity and pretrial interrogations.
theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:The trial isn't even mentioned in Piper's Auschwitz: How Many Perished, not even under his subsection "Figures Determined by Investigating and Prosecuting Agencies and Tribunals"!
Oh, how frightfully shocking! To the rabbit, that is.
theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:But hopefully the usual suspects on rodoh, those more familiar with hoaxography, will be able to provide us with what facts Western historians have told us about the Auschwitz death toll determined at this particular trial.
Most western historians, insofar as they took the Krakow court's findings of fact into consideration, obviously didn't consider them accurate. Van Pelt wrote the following in his report (emphases added):
Apart from the engineering approach to the question how many people had died in Auschwitz a second method emerged to establish the number of victims. It was based on an analysis of the number of deportations to the camp. As early as 1946, Nachman Blumental, using this method, came to an informed guess that the number of victims ought to have been somewhere between 1.3 and 1.5 million.81 In the early 1950s, Gerald Reitlinger also tried to make a rough guess of the number of victims on the basis of the number of deportees.
As to the total number of Jews brought to the selection place at Auschwitz, it is possible to estimate fairly closely for the Western and Central European countries and the Balkans but not for Poland. There is no real guide to the percentage gassed. It was low before August,1942,and generally low again after August,1944, but in the meantime gassings might vary between fifty and nearly a hundred per cent. The following list makes allowances for a number of French and Greek transports sent to Majdanek and 34,000 Dutch Jews who went to Sobibor:
Belgium 22,600
Croatia 4,500
France 57,000
Greater Reich [....direct transports only ]* 25,000
Greater Reich [ via Theresienstadt] 32,000

Greece 50,000
Holland 62,000
Hungary (wartime frontiers) 380,000
Italy 5,000
Luxembourg 2,000
Norway 700
Poland and Baltic States* 180,000
Slovakia (1939 borders) 20,000

840,800
(*uncertain)
Of this total,550,000 to 600,000 may have been gassed on arrival and to this must be added the unknown portion of the 300,000 or more, missing from the camp, who were selected.82
It is important to note that Reitlinger systematically chose, if confronted with different estimates about the number of victims, the lowest one. The first reason was that exaggeration would serve those who wished to deny the Holocaust.83 The second one must be located in his unusually cheerful disposition vis-a-vis the whole story, which was rooted in his very bleak assessment of human nature: as he wrote the book, he always reminded himself that it could have been worse--a sentiment few have shared.84
Finally there were different assessment made by witnesses. The most important of these was, without doubt, Commandant Rudolf Höss. During his initial interrogations, Höss seems to have confirmed an initial assessment done by his interrogators that three million people had been killed in Auschwitz.85 In Nuremberg, he gave different numbers at different occasions. During his interrogations he gave detailed list of numbers for each nationality that came to over 1.1 million deportees.86 In his affidavit, however, he stated that "at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated [in Auschwitz ] by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease, making a total dead of about 3,000,000."87 He confirmed this number in a conversation with the prison psychologist Dr. Gilbert. "He readily conformed that approximately 2 1/2 million Jews has been exterminated under his direction."88 In a short memorandum which he wrote for Gilbert later in April Höss returned to the lower number. He now stated that the number of 2.5 million referred to the technical potential. "[T]o the best of my knowledge, this number appears to me much too high. If I calculate the total of the mass operations which I still remember, and still make allowance for a certain percentage of error, I arrive, in my calculation, at a total of 1.5 million at the most for the period from the beginning of 1941 to the end of 1944."89 Finally, in Poland, Höss re-affirmed that the number of victims had been most likely less than 1.2 million persons, commenting that "I regard the number of 2.5 million as far too high. Even Auschwitz had limits to its destructive capabilities."90
Thus, by the beginning of the 1950s, there were basically three estimates of the number of victims, each based on different sources: a high one of 4 million based on the assumed capacity of the crematoria, a low one of around 1 million based on the number of transports and Höss's final assessment given to Dr. Gilbert in Nuremberg and Dr. Jan Sehn in Cracow, and a middle one of around 2.5 million, based on Eichmann's number as related by Höss, and as initially substantiated by Höss in his Nuremberg affidavit.
Until the early 1980s no original scholarship was undertaken to come to a resolution of the unacceptably great range between the lowest and highest estimate. The Cold War was largely to blame: the figure of 4 million had been established by the Soviets, and the figure of 1 million had been first proposed in the West. As relations between the East and West deteriorated, with the largest part of Germany becoming part of NATO and with that country refusing to recognize the legitimacy of the post-war Polish annexation of the former German territories of East Prussia, Pomerania, and Silesia, the issue of the number of victims became an object of politics. The communist rulers of Poland were unwilling to give an inch on their claims against Germany as long as the Bonn government did not recognize the territorial integrity of the People's Republic of Poland, and therefore they continued to maintain, as a matter of policy, that 4 million people had been killed in Auschwitz. In the West, most historians of the Holocaust who, given the political climate, were unable to do original research in the matter tended to accept, with reservations, the middle figure of 2.5 million. Initially only Raul Hilberg, who did important statistical analysis into the number of victims of the Holocaust, supported the lower figure of 1 million. He reasoned--with justification--that given the total number of victims of the Holocaust (5.1 million in his conservative estimate), and given more or less reliable assessments about the number of Jews who died of general privation in the ghettos, who were executed in open-air shootings, and who died in other extermination and concentration camps, the total number of Auschwitz victims could not have been more than 1 million.91
Now, let's assume that historians had predominantly accepted as accurate the Krakow Court's findings of fact on the death toll of AB.

What would this mean?

It would mean that a mistaken notion in the historical record was duly revised as soon as someone undertook a detailed study of the Auschwitz-Birkenau death toll on the basis of deportation data.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Much ado about nothing, rabbit. As usual.
Last edited by Roberto on Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Denial of generally known historical facts should not be punishable. For those who maintain, for instance, that Germany did not take part in World War I or that Adenauer fought at Issus in 333, their own stupidity is punishment enough. The same should apply to the denial of the horrors and crimes of the recent German past.
~ A German jurist by the name of Baumann in the German juridical magazine NJW, quoted in: Bailer-Galanda/Benz/Neugebauer (ed.), Die Auschwitzleugner, Berlin 1996, page 261 (my translation).

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Re: 1st Auschwitz Trial: What was the Auschwitz death toll?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:47 am

Roberto wrote:Much ado about nothing, rabbit. As usual.
So, essentially, you can't name a single Holocaust historian who mentioned the Auschwitz death tolls arrived at by the Krakow-Auschwitz trial.

Fair enough, neither can I.

But perhaps in future, when making your poetically worded pontifications about Hoess throwing figures in Polish faces, you should also mention Blumenthal's appearance at his trial, where he announced a far lower figure for Jewish deaths at Auschwitz than the "about 4,000,000 people mainly Jews" stated in Hoess' trial indictment.

It's kinda relevant. And you wouldn't want to be accused of lying by omission, would you.
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsellor, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: 1st Auschwitz Trial: What was the Auschwitz death toll?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:52 am

greendoormat wrote:Hello Black Rabbit,

Although I may not be an "usual suspect" and I do not have access to the necessary primary source at the moment, from secondary sources published by the Museum that I own I have gleaned that the findings of the NTN are as follows:
-300,000 registered dead as a conservative estimate;
-2,500,000 unregistered dead as an indisputable minimum--but taking into account witnesses and the Soviet forensic report, 3 to 4 millions overall is equally likely.

A caveat would be that I have another German-language book published by the Auschwitz Museum in which it says without further detail that the Supreme National Tribunal established, the book claims between quotation marks, "at Auschwitz about 4 million persons lost their lives". The context of that quote raises questions about its credibility, so I would defer to my earlier breakdown.

Hope this helps.

Edit: I'm sorry, I was misled by the thread title and thought you asked for the 1st Auschwitz trial, which is to say that of Höss. I don't know the death toll established at the Krakow trial, and it might be precisely that quoted in the German-language book. I'll get back to you on a later date about it.
Hello to you too greendoormat.

That does help. And makes sense. Thanks.

Maybe if you've got a moment, and the inclination, you could please provide me with a citation for the Auschwitz Museum source you mentioned.
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsellor, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: 1st Auschwitz Trial: What was the Auschwitz death toll?

Post by Roberto » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:06 pm

theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:
Roberto wrote:Much ado about nothing, rabbit. As usual.
So, essentially, you can't name a single Holocaust historian who mentioned the Auschwitz death tolls arrived at by the Krakow-Auschwitz trial.
Not that I know.

And so?
theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:But perhaps in future, when making your poetically worded pontifications about Hoess throwing figures in Polish faces, you should also mention Blumenthal's appearance at his trial, where he announced a far lower figure for Jewish deaths at Auschwitz than the "about 4,000,000 people mainly Jews" stated in Hoess' trial indictment.
And the relevance of that (namely to the point that the Poles didn't influence Höss's statements during his pretrial interrogations) would be what exactly?

Also considering that Höss mentioned such figures before to psychiatrist Gilbert at Nuremberg, IIRC.

Anyway, it's good to see the figures Höss gave to the Poles (and his pooh-poohing of higher figures the Poles would probably have liked him to confirm) stick in the rabbit's throat.
theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:It's kinda relevant.
Don't see how, but maybe the rabbit can explain.
theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:And you wouldn't want to be accused of lying by omission, would you.
I'm actually not concerned at all with the rabbit's imbecilic accusations (including but not limited to the laughable "lying by omission" crap that is one of the rabbit's staples).

But I would appreciate it if the rabbit grew anything resembling balls and put his name behind such accusations.

The rabbit being just another cowardly "Revisionist" windbag, that's not likely to happen, however.
Denial of generally known historical facts should not be punishable. For those who maintain, for instance, that Germany did not take part in World War I or that Adenauer fought at Issus in 333, their own stupidity is punishment enough. The same should apply to the denial of the horrors and crimes of the recent German past.
~ A German jurist by the name of Baumann in the German juridical magazine NJW, quoted in: Bailer-Galanda/Benz/Neugebauer (ed.), Die Auschwitzleugner, Berlin 1996, page 261 (my translation).

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Re: 1st Auschwitz Trial: What was the Auschwitz death toll?

Post by Roberto » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:34 pm

k0nsl wrote:Funny how you always wish to privy into other peoples true identities, Roberto.
Only if such people indulge in personal attacks and/or other obnoxious behavior, actually. As cowardly k0nsl (nice alliteration) well knows.
Denial of generally known historical facts should not be punishable. For those who maintain, for instance, that Germany did not take part in World War I or that Adenauer fought at Issus in 333, their own stupidity is punishment enough. The same should apply to the denial of the horrors and crimes of the recent German past.
~ A German jurist by the name of Baumann in the German juridical magazine NJW, quoted in: Bailer-Galanda/Benz/Neugebauer (ed.), Die Auschwitzleugner, Berlin 1996, page 261 (my translation).

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Re: 1st Auschwitz Trial: What was the Auschwitz death toll?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:38 pm

Roberto wrote:Also considering that Höss mentioned such figures before to psychiatrist Gilbert at Nuremberg, IIRC.
Ah, the 'Gilbert Confession', which first appeared in 1961!

Former U.S. Army psychologist (not a psychiatrist) Gustav Gilbert (Jewish), who babysat the Nazi big guns tried at IMT Nuremberg in 1945/6, testified at the Eichmann trial on 29 May 1961 (session 66). He submitted to the Jerusalem court room (more precisely the Beit-Ha'am theatre house) what he claimed was a confession written by Hoess.

In 1947 Gilbert published the Nuremberg Diary, in which he makes no mention whatsoever of Hoess handing him a handwritten and signed confession in which he'd estimated the number of gassed at Auschwitz at 1,500,000. Instead Gilbert claimed Hoess had told him on April 9, 1945, that he'd gassed 2,500,000 Jews. In fact Gilbert mentions several times in the book, that Hoess maintained that he'd gassed 2,500,000 Jews. Example 2 Example 3

Hoess' "Gilbert Confession" (established 1961)
"The freight trains with the Jews destined for extermination moved along a special railroad installation which had been laid down especially for this purpose right up to the extermination installations. Notification of these trains was given in advance by Obersturmbannfuehrer Eichmann of the RSHA, and they were allocated consecutive numbers, together with letters of the alphabet, in order to prevent a mix-up with transports of other prisoners. Each cable relating to these transports bore the reference: `In accordance with the specified directives, and are to be subjected to special treatment.' These trains consisted of closed freight cars and contained, on the average, about 2,000 persons.
When the trains arrived at the aforementioned ramp, the accompanying railway personnel and the accompanying guard - members of the Security or Order Police - had to leave the area. Only the transport commander who had delivered it remained until it had been completely handed over, and the numbers checked, to the duty officer of the camp. After the trains were off-loaded and the numbers determined (lists by names were not drawn up), all the people had to file past two SS duty doctors, and in the course of this, those who were fit for work were separated from those who were unfit.

On the average about twenty-five per cent were found to be fit for work. These were marched off immediately into the camp, in order to change their clothes and be received there. All the luggage remained on the ramp and, after those unfit for work had also been sent off, it was brought to the store of personal effects, to be sorted out. Those unfit for work were classified according to sex - men, women and children - and marched off to the nearest available extermination installation. Those unable to walk and women with small children were transported there on trucks.

When they arrived, all of them had to strip naked in rooms which gave the impression of being delousing installations. The permanent labour unit of prisoners who worked in these installations - and who were also housed there and did not come into contact with other inmates of the camp - helped with the undressing and coaxed the hesitant to hurry up, so that the others would not have to wait so long.

They were also told to take note where they put away their clothes, so that they would be able to find them again immediately after taking their bath. All this was done on purpose, in order to dispel any fears which might arise. After they had taken off their clothes, they were taken into a nearby room - the gas chamber itself. It had been prepared to look like a washroom - that is to say showers and pipes were installed throughout, water drainage channels, etc. The moment the entire transport had entered the chamber, the door was closed, and simultaneously the gas was forced in from above through a special aperture. It was Zyklon `B' gas, cyanide acid in the form of crystals, which vaporized immediately, that is to say, it took effect immediately upon coming into contact with oxygen.

The people were dazed already on taking their first breath, and the process of killing took from thirteen to fifteen minutes, depending upon the weather conditions and the number of people locked up within. Thereafter, nothing moved any more. Thirty minutes after the gas had been released and had entered the chambers, they would be opened, and the transfer of the bodies to the crematoria would commence. Throughout all these years, I never came across a single case of a person coming out of the gas chambers while still alive. While the bodies were being taken out, the women's hair was still cut, and gold teeth and rings removed by prisoner dentists who were employed in this unit.

"In Birkenau there were five installations - two large crematoria, each of which had a capacity for receiving 2,000 persons in the course of 24 hours. That is to say, it was possible in one gas chamber to put to death up to 2,500 persons; in five double ovens heated with coke it was possible to burn at the most 2,000 bodies within 24 hours; two smaller installations could eliminate about 1,500 people, with four bigger double ovens to each of them. Furthermore, there was also one open-air installation - that is, an old farmhouse was sealed and turned into a gas chamber, which could also contain 1,500 persons at one and the same time. The incineration was carried out there in an open pit on wood, and this was practically limitless.

In my estimation, it was possible to burn there, in 24 hours, up to 8,000 persons in this way. Hence it was possible to exterminate and eliminate up to 10,000 people within 24 hours in the installations described above. As far as I am aware, this number was attained only once in 1944, when delays occurred in the arrival of trains, and consequently five transports arrived together on one day. The ashes of the burnt bodies were ground into dust, which was poured into the Vistula in remote places and swept away with the current.

"On the basis of the figure of 2.5 million, which is the number of people who - according to Eichmann - were brought to Auschwitz for extermination, it may be said that, on the average, two transports arrived daily, with a combined total of 4,000 persons, of whom twenty- five per cent were fit for work, the balance of 3,000 were to be exterminated. The intervals in the various operations can be computed together at nine months. Thus there remain 27 months, with 90,000 people each month - a total of 2,430,000 people. This is a calculation of the technical potential. I have to keep to the figure mentioned by Eichmann, for he was the only SS officer who was allowed to keep records concerning these liquidation operations, according to the orders of the Reichsfuehrer-SS.

All other units which took part in any way had to destroy all records immediately. Eichmann mentioned this number in my presence when he was called upon, in April 1945, to present a report to the Reichsfuehrer-SS. I had no records whatsoever. But, to the best of my knowledge, this number appears to me much too high. If I calculate the total of the mass operations which I still remember, and still make allowance for a certain percentage of error, I arrive, in my calculation, at a total of 1.5 million at the most, for the period from the beginning of 1941 to the end of 1944. But these are my computations which I cannot verify.

Nuremberg, 24 April 1946 (Signed) Rudolf Hoess

(At the bottom of the document): Hungary - 400,000; Slovakia - 90,000; Greece - 65,000; Holland - 90,000; France - 110,000; Belgium - 20,000; the region of the Generalgouvernement and Upper Silesia - 250,000; Germany and Terezin - 100,000. Total - 1,125,000."

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eic ... 55-03.html
The figures Hoess supposedly wrote on his 'Gilbert confession', are almost exactly the same figures which Hoess would later write in "his memoirs"
Hoess' Gilbert Confession

Hungary - 400,000
Slovakia - 90,000
Greece - 65,000
Holland - 90,000
France - 110,000
Belgium - 20,000
the region of the Generalgouvernement and Upper Silesia - 250,000
Germany and Terezin - 100,000

Total - 1,125,000
Hoess' memoirs

Hungary - 400,000
Slovakia - 90,000
Greece - 65,000
Holland - 95,000
France - 110,000
Belgium - 20,000
From Upper Silesia and Polish territory under German rule 250,000
Germany and Theresienstadt - 100,000

Total - 1,130,000
I don't have access to the Hoess trial transcript (nor could I read it if I did), but there's fair reason to suspect these figures were first aired publicly by Hoess at his trial:
Hungary 45,000
Greece 65,000
Holland 95,000
France 110,000
Belgium 20,000

JTA March 28, 1947, "Hoess Confirms Jewish Historian’s Testimony That 1,500,000 Jews Murdered at Oswiecim"
http://archive.jta.org/article/1947/03/ ... t-oswiecim
Roberto wrote:
theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:It's kinda relevant.
Don't see how, but maybe the rabbit can explain.
That Hoess only reduced his estimate after a Jew had appeared at his trial and announced a maximum of 1.5m died at Auschwitz. A trial where Hoess was accused of murdered 4,000,000 mainly Jews at Auschwitz.

No, that's complete irrelevant! :roll:
Roberto wrote:
theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:And you wouldn't want to be accused of lying by omission, would you.
I'm actually not concerned at all with the rabbit's imbecilic accusations (including but not limited to the laughable "lying by omission" crap that is one of the rabbit's staples).
I've already provided one example of your lying by omission on this thread. Feel free to post an example where I've "lied by omission."
Roberto wrote:But I would appreciate it if the rabbit grew anything resembling balls and put his name behind such accusations.

The rabbit being just another cowardly "Revisionist" windbag, that's not likely to happen, however.
Like your mate "Sergy Romanov"?

I'm not famous Bobby, you wouldn't recognise my name.
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsellor, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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theblackrabbitofinlé
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Re: 1st Auschwitz Trial: What was the Auschwitz death toll?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:31 pm

We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsellor, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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theblackrabbitofinlé
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Re: 1st Auschwitz Trial: What was the Auschwitz death toll?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:38 pm

We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsellor, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

rollo the ganger
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Re: 1st Auschwitz Trial: What was the Auschwitz death toll?

Post by rollo the ganger » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:14 am

A rather empty gesture on the part of the Poles. The Polish people were one of the most "anti-semitic" people in Europe before, during and after the war. More so than any German. At least that is the conclusion one would come to if they read some of the contemporary literature on the topic. Recall the Kielce Pogrom in 1946. I seriously doubt that was "Nazi inspired".

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