As a refresher, Admiral is arguing against the orthodox revisionist position as espoused for example here by Kues https://codoh.com/library/document/evid ... in-the/en/ that 1.5 million Polish Jews were sent East thru the Reinhardt camps.
I argued, almost as a revisionist would (how amusing!), that this systematized "resettlement" happened because welp Nazi documents say it did. I began by showing him Himmler's order for the Resettlement of the Jewish population of the GG
I think I dealt with one of his concerns here: viewtopic.php?p=185295#p185295. His other concern was that the order was clearly not carried out by the end of 1942, and that the timing of the order fell well after the supposed start date of Einsatz Reinhardt:Admiral E. Rastus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:15 amSure, I can find the exact text, but I already said precisely what he said and if you're having problems with the Himmler order I'm not going to play the game where you fish for info while tactically making a show of not acknowledging it. Of course, there's additional context you didn't bother to learn such as Himmler's plans, around the time of his GG order, to bring non-German Jews in the heart of Germany to work in secured factories.
You can start with the first sentence, slowly. Then you can try to figure out how GG's economy worked and what the "collection camps" were.Loog wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:30 amWhat do you make of Himmler's order from July 19, 1942?
I herewith order that the resettlement (Umseidlung) of the entire Jewish population of the Government-General be carried out and completed by December 31, 1942.
From December 31, 1942, no persons of Jewish origin may remain within the Government-General, unless they are in collection camps in Warsaw, krakow, Czestochowa, Radom, and Lublin. All other work on which Jewish labor is employed must be finished by that date, or, in the event that this is not possible, it must be transferred to one of the collection camps.
These measures are required with a view to the necessary ethnic division of races and peoples for the New Order in Europe, and also in the interests of the security and cleanliness of the German Reich and its sphere of interest. Every breach of this regulation spells a danger to quiet and order in the entire German sphere of interest, a point of application for the resistance movement and a source of moral and physical pestilence.
For all these reasons a total cleansing is necessary and therefore to be carried out. Cases in which the date set can not be observed will be reported to me in time, so that I can see to corrective action at an early date. All requests by other offices for changes or permits for exceptions to be made must be presented to me personally.
https://training.ehri-project.eu/sites/ ... n%20DE.pdf
Admiral E. Rastus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:47 pmIgnoring that his superior countermanded it in September, the order is defined by doing things, that by anyone's account were not done, by a date: December 31, 1942. Of course, the date of the order itself is problematic for those claiming that's Aktion Reinhardt.
My question to the Admiral would be, how do any of these facts preclude mass "resettlement" from ever having occurred?
By the end of 1942, German documents suggest 1.25 million Jews were transited, out of a total of ~1.5 that would be sent out in the coming months. By mid 1943, the ghettos were largely emptied, with Jewish labor moved to "collection camps" scattered throughout the GG. So Himmler's order was fulfilled, if a few months late.
Einsatz Reinhardt began several months before Himmler's order concerning the entirety of the GG yes, but such an order couldn't have possibly been made/carried out any earlier. The Reinhardt camp responsible for processing the largest portion of the Jewish population, Treblinka, was not ready yet, coming online 23 July 1942, 4 days after the Himmler order.