What were the purposes of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka?

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Asher Israel
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What were the purposes of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka?

Post by Asher Israel »

Hello,

I came across this forum after researching Holocaust denial. I have read a few threads on the first page of this section of the forum and it appears that some users deny what happened at Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka death camps.

There is no evidence that the vast majority of the Jews who were sent to those camps were transited to the East which is what was said to have happened according to one important report (document) about the camps. A very small percentage of Jews who arrived at those camps were transited to other camps as slave labourers which was mentioned during the trials in the 1960s. What happened to the rest of them? The trail of what happened to them ends at the camps and it's up to any Holocaust denier, or Holocaust revisionist if that is what he prefers to be called, to prove what happened to them.

I'm genuinely interested to read the evidence which allegedly proves that the facts everyone knows about what happened during the Holocaust and especially in those death camps are not true.

I watched a video between Fritz Berg and Eric Hunt last night debating what happened at those death camps. The former, an unapologetic neo-Nazi defended the Nazis and described them as "heroes" and when he was questioned about what happened to the Jews who were sent to the death camps he either avoided the question altogether or resorted to something along the lines of "I frankly don't care what happened to them". He didn't provide any convincing arguments and relied on fallacious arguments over and over again.

You can listen to the debate yourself:



Is that seriously the best a "Holocaust revisionist" can come up with to explain what happened to hundreds of thousands of Jews? If so, which appears to be the case, then no wonder no one really buys into Holocaust revisionists' arguments.

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been-there
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Re: What were the purposes of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka?

Post by been-there »

Asher Israel wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:29 am
Hello,

I came across this forum after researching Holocaust denial. I have read a few threads on the first page of this section of the forum and it appears that some users deny what happened at Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka death camps.
You have started with a few false premises.
RODOH was created to allow open discussion and questioning of the legally protected — and therefore compulsory — ‘holocaust’ narrative. That discussion seeks and enables the analysis and discovery of what parts of the narrative are accurate, and what parts are exaggerated and/or invented (false).
Such a discussion can in no fair society be accurately called “denial”.

So, you appear to have started from a fixed false position on two aspects of such a discussion and analysis:
1.) that any argument that doesn’t accept certain ‘holocaust history’ axioms must be regarded as “denial”, and
2.) that one of those sacrosanct axioms which does not permit skeptical analysis is that Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka WERE death camps.

I recommend you temporarily relax your sense of certainty until you have familiarised yourself with revisionist arguments.

Revisionists and skeptics, as genuine seekers of historical truth, demand the right to question the compulsory, quasi-religious ‘belief’ concerning the WW2 experience of Jews, and to subject it to fair but critical analysis.
Therefore we question whether those camps were designed and used soley for exterminations. I.e. we ask ‘were they really death-camps’?

Asher Israel wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:29 am
There is no evidence that the vast majority of the Jews who were sent to those camps were transited to the East which is what was said to have happened according to one important report (document) about the camps. A very small percentage of Jews who arrived at those camps were transited to other camps as slave labourers which was mentioned during the trials in the 1960s. What happened to the rest of them? The trail of what happened to them ends at the camps and it's up to any Holocaust denier, or Holocaust revisionist if that is what he prefers to be called, to prove what happened to them.
You have reversed the burden of proof. A common mistake that defenders of ‘holocaust-as-belief-not-history’ make.
As revisionist and translator Wilf Heink pointed out, ‘the holocaust’ is not a missing persons enquiry but is a largely unevidenced mass-murder allegation.

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence.
The ‘holocaust’ narrative makes extraordinary claims.

Whereas as a holocaust skeptic I make no claims at all. None!
I merely question the accuracy of some of the claims in the ‘holocaust’ narrative.

As far as I am aware after looking into the subject in detail, as openly and as rigourously honestly as I can, the claim of there having been a mass-gassing of 3 to 4 million people in gas chambers because they were Jewish is what has not been proven yet.
Yet asking to see verifiable proof is not allowed. It is verboten.
Healthy skepticism and historical REVISION is criminalised.
Maybe you did not know that? :ugeek:

So who is really in denial here: a.) those who ask for open debate and evidence or b.) those who demand obedient acceptance of a legally-protected narrative or face prison/fines/career destruction?

I myself am not a "denier". If you think otherwise you will need to point out what exactly you assert I am ‘denying’.

I am in reality almost the exact opposite of a ‘denier’ as I seek credible evidence for the events which the ‘holocaust’ narrative claims occurred. Just as anyone interested in historical truth SHOULD.
So I don't "deny" the holocaust. I instead question the physical possibility of just some specific points of the extraordinary and legally-protected claims.

I myself have no 'claims' that I need to prove. Those claiming mass-murders in unevidenced gas chambers with burial in unevidenced mass graves, DO have. That is one of the extraordinary claims that requires the extraordinary evidence to support it. As it is a colossal mass-murder accusation, it is the accusers who need to prove guilt "beyond reasonable doubt". (The accused are innocent until proven guilty in western law. Remember? ;) )

So you appear to be another person who has the burden of proof in reverse.
And this really shouldn't need pointing out, as this is all so basic.
Asher Israel wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:29 am
I'm genuinely interested to read the evidence which allegedly proves that the facts everyone knows about what happened during the Holocaust and especially in those death camps are not true.
Great that you are interested. But you will need to be more specific. It is a big subject. I recommend you read some of the revisionist literature and if you have doubts or confusion, bring them here.

Asher Israel wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:29 am
I watched a video between Fritz Berg and Eric Hunt last night debating what happened at those death camps. The former, an unapologetic neo-Nazi defended the Nazis and described them as "heroes" and when he was questioned about what happened to the Jews who were sent to the death camps he either avoided the question altogether or resorted to something along the lines of "I frankly don't care what happened to them". He didn't provide any convincing arguments and relied on fallacious arguments over and over again.
Fritz was a regular contributor here. He was not a neo-Nazi. He was someone of German ethnicity who was understandably outraged by what he saw as the decades-long persecution, abuse, lies and protected slander of his ancestors, once he realised the amount of deceit in witness testimony.

Asher Israel wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:29 am
Is that seriously the best a "Holocaust revisionist" can come up with to explain what happened to hundreds of thousands of Jews? If so, which appears to be the case, then no wonder no one really buys into Holocaust revisionists' arguments.
This ”where did they go” argument has been done to death here. Many defenders of ‘holocaust-as-sacrosanct-belief-not-history’ create multiple sock-puppet accounts to keep bringing this red-herring argument up. Maybe you are such a person, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I myself have addressed it. If you are genuinely interested — and not one of the many dishonest defenders using aliases — try reading this:
viewtopic.php?p=114420#p114420

.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Nessie
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Re: What were the purposes of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka?

Post by Nessie »

The evidenced answer is that Belzec, Sobibor and TII were camps set up as a part of Aktion Reinhard, which ran during 1942 and 1943 and which included the mass theft of property from the Jews. From 1939, as the Nazis invaded and occupied, the Jewish population was identified, registered and the theft of their homes and businesses started. The Jews were then moved from their homes to ghettos or camps. What the Jews could take from their homes varied, some were able to take furniture and larger possessions, others were limited to a suitcase, depending on where they were being sent to.

Most of the ghettos were then closed down in 1942-3, and many of the Jews were then sent to Belzec, Sobibor and TII, which by the end of 1942 had received c1.27 million people. They were sent with only a suitcase and what they had on. At the camps, the Jews were then stripped of everything and AR records show that the suitcases, clothing including underwear and even the gold from their teeth, was then sent for sorting, primarily at Majdanek. The evidence is that this stripping was a precursor to gassings, after which the gold teeth were extracted. Denier suggestions that the camps were transit, customs or hygiene centres have not been evidenced, let alone proved.

Been-there suggests he is not a denier and that he makes no claims, but then he states, "the claim of there having been a mass-gassing of 3 to 4 million people in gas chambers because they were Jewish is what has not been proven yet". That is a claim. He goes on to say "I instead question the physical possibility of just some specific points of the extraordinary and legally-protected claims" which is a denial that there were mass gassing, burials and cremations.

Been-there then shows how closed minded he is. He goes on to correctly say "it is the accusers who need to prove guilt "beyond reasonable doubt", which also applies to his claim that mass gassing is not proven as it was not physically possible to do. He does not understand he has to evidence and prove his claims. He goes on to say "This ”where did they go” argument has been done to death here..." meaning he does not think that those who say no mass gassings have any responsibility to evidence and prove what did happen. He is not interested in a full and thorough investigation to find out what happened to the Jews in Nazi custody during WWII.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: What were the purposes of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka?

Post by Turnagain »

Bravo, b-t, well said. I came to questioning what I now call the holyhoax after a family member said that the holocaust was a hoax. I disagreed and set about to prove him wrong. The first book I happened to read was Yankel Wiernik's, "A Year in Treblinka". I wasn't far into it before I came to the conclusion that this be bullshit. Further research only confirmed my first impression. Not only was I chagrined to have to admit that I was wrong, I was pissed off that I had been taken in by the holyhoax fantasy like a country rube being taken for his pocket change by a slick carney at the county fair. I'm still pissed off about that.

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Nessie
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Re: What were the purposes of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka?

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:39 pm
Bravo, b-t, well said. I came to questioning what I now call the holyhoax after a family member said that the holocaust was a hoax. I disagreed and set about to prove him wrong. The first book I happened to read was Yankel Wiernik's, "A Year in Treblinka". I wasn't far into it before I came to the conclusion that this be bullshit.
You came to a conclusion based only on the first thing you read.
Further research only confirmed my first impression.
Confirmation bias in action.
Not only was I chagrined to have to admit that I was wrong, I was pissed off that I had been taken in by the holyhoax fantasy like a country rube being taken for his pocket change by a slick carney at the county fair. I'm still pissed off about that.
You fell for the flawed denier methodology.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: What were the purposes of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka?

Post by Turnagain »

No, you idiot, I found Wiernik's tale to be bullshit so I did further research in an attempt to find real proof of the holyhoax. I failed to find any believable accounts of the so-called holocaust but my research led me to such as Dr. Faurisson and my awakening to the hoax.

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Re: What were the purposes of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka?

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:59 pm
No, you idiot, I found Wiernik's tale to be bullshit so I did further research in an attempt to find real proof of the holyhoax. I failed to find any believable accounts of the so-called holocaust but my research led me to such as Dr. Faurisson and my awakening to the hoax.
You read a literature professor to learn about history? Would you read a history professor to learn about literature?

How about you present your historical empirical evidence from documents, photos, eyewitnesses, physical items, any empirical evidence that is contemporary to or from the camps at Belzec, Sobibor and TII to show what happened at each one.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: What were the purposes of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka?

Post by Turnagain »

Are you actually claiming that only people with history degrees are qualified to comment on the holyhoax?

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Nessie
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Re: What were the purposes of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka?

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:13 pm
Are you actually claiming that only people with history degrees are qualified to comment on the holyhoax?
Your fallacy is strawman. You will get a more reliable history of what happened by referring to sources from those who are suitably qualified in their field.

Now, get on topic and show your evidence to prove the purposes of Belzec, Sobibor and TII.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: What were the purposes of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka?

Post by Turnagain »

Nope, I'm perfectly willing to let b-t deal with Asher Israel and his wail of, "Where did they gooooo?".

You are the one who butted in on my congratulating b-t on a well said post. Now piss off.

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