The Selection Process

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Nessie
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The Selection Process

Post by Nessie »

In another thread Turnagain is trying to derail, he said

viewtopic.php?p=181581#p181581
Turnagain wrote:Yep, I must have missed the description of the selection process. By all means post a link to it.
The section process on arrival at the AR camps and A-B is very well known and I found Turnagain's claim of missing it very suspicious, so a search found selections or the selection process has been mentioned 155 times in posts he made. He has been very dishonest suggesting he missed it.

Here are some links to descriptions of that process;

https://www.holocaustmatters.org/holoca ... n-process/

Image

"The holocaust selection process refers to who was chosen for forced labour and who was sent to gas chambers upon arrival of concentration camps such as Auschwitz....Upon arrival, there would be holocaust selection, where the Nazi doctors and commandants would assess age, physicality and skills when deciding who would be forced to work and who would be killed....After the Chelmno Extermination Camp, the Nazi party built five other death camps in the attempt to complete their Final Solution to the Jewish Question. The five other camps were named as follows:
Auschwitz-Birkenau
Belzec
Majdanek
Sobibor
Treblinka
...After deportation trains arrived at an extermination centre, Nazi guards would order the prisoners out of the packed trains and into a line to undergo the selection process. During this process, men were placed separately from women and children, and an appointed officer of the Nazi party, typically an SS physician, would examine each of the deportees to determine whether they were in good physical health to be put to work – noting that they had usually passed several weeks or months by this point with very little food and had endured a packed train journey of several days without food or water."

Interviews with the Dutch survivors selected to work on arrival at Sobibor here;

https://www.sobiborinterviews.nl/en/ned ... erlevenden

"Between March and July 1943 nineteen transports left from Westerbork to Sobibor. Most of the 34,313 deportees were gassed immediately upon arrival. A few hundred prisoners were selected to work in the camp or in neighbouring camps. Nearly all of them died of starvation, exhaustion or ill treatment. Only eighteen Sobibor survivors who were originally transported from the Netherlands returned home."

A witness describes the selection he experienced on arrival at TII;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... imony.html

"They opened the freight cars - we heard the order “Get Out.” There were shouts, we began getting off, so that they did not give us an opportunity to understand where we were or what was happening – we were chased straight away to the square, and there we were ordered to hand over our money and jewellery, we were then told to remove our shoes.
“Suddenly we heard an order to line up. We lined up. We were made to stand there again - all the time, I want to stress, with blows – they arranged us in rows, in threes. One of them passed through the ranks – later I heard he was called the “Hauptmann with the glasses,” and he did wear glasses. He began asking us, one by one, what was his profession....Next to me stood a Jew who was an electrical engineer and he was also ordered to step forward. The two of us left the line – apart from us none of the transport stepped forward."

Some were selected to work as Sonderkommados in the camps. Others were selected and went to work in other camps such as Majdanek. Eric Hunt's Treblinka Archaeology Myth video recorded some of them, listed here;

viewtopic.php?p=88978#p88978
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Turnagain
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Re: The Selection Process

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie is still weasel dodging my request that he post the name of one credible Jew eyewitness to the Steam/gas/vacuum chambers, the graves and the exhumations and cremations on the magic Jew barbeque. Reams of weasel dodging, no witness. Gee, whoda' thunk it?

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Nessie
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Re: The Selection Process

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:55 pm
Nessie is still weasel dodging my request that he post the name of one credible Jew eyewitness to the Steam/gas/vacuum chambers, the graves and the exhumations and cremations on the magic Jew barbeque. Reams of weasel dodging, no witness. Gee, whoda' thunk it?
You instantly troll the thread to go off to a topic that has been discussed repeatedly. This topic is about the selections process you pretended to have "missed".

Do you now accept that you were wrong and that on arrival at the AR camps and A-b there was a selection process to identify workers, to work either in the camp as Sonderkommados or to go to another camp and work?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: The Selection Process

Post by Turnagain »

You've "discussed" nothing about any credible Jew witnesses to the events at Treblinka. You've weasel dodged repeatedly.

Your claim that only a few were "selected for work" at Treblinka and no trainloads of mixed men, women and children left T-II is bullshit. You are trying to weasel dodge that claim.

WillDak
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Re: The Selection Process

Post by WillDak »

Nessie:
Upon arrival, there would be holocaust selection, where the Nazi doctors and commandants would assess age, physicality and skills when deciding who would be forced to work and who would be killed....After the Chelmno Extermination Camp, the Nazi party built five other death camps in the attempt to complete their Final Solution to the Jewish Question. The five other camps were named as follows:
Auschwitz-Birkenau
Belzec
Majdanek
Sobibor
Treblinka
...After deportation trains arrived at an extermination centre, Nazi guards would order the prisoners out of the packed trains and into a line to undergo the selection process...
And what happended then? Well, according to Nessie, at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka II:
Hanna Hasbara's questions to Nessie:
When you say "with the utmost certainty" - is that the same level of certainty that you use to claim 33 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Belzec camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "using the scientific method" - is that the same method that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 33 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the Belzec camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "burial site" - are you including the total volume of all 33 “huge mass graves” that you claim - with the utmost certainty - have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Belzec camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "prove" - do you mean prove with the same standard of proof that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 33 extant "huge mass graves" have been proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Belzec camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

Can you, with the utmost certainty and using the scientific method prove that Belzec is not the burial site of at least 530,000 jews - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: No as it does contain at least that number of remains


When you say "with the utmost certainty" - is that the same level of certainty that you use to claim 15 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Chelmno camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "using the scientific method" - is that the same method that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 15 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the Chelmno camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "burial site" - are you including the total volume of all 15 “huge mass graves” that you claim - with the utmost certainty - have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Chelmno camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "prove" - do you mean prove with the same standard of proof that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 15 extant "huge mass graves" have been proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Chelmno camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

Can you, with the utmost certainty and using the scientific method prove that Chelmno is not the burial site of at least 252,000 jews - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: No as it does contain at least that number of remains


When you say "with the utmost certainty" - is that the same level of certainty that you use to claim 16 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Sobibor camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "using the scientific method" - is that the same method that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 16 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the Sobibor camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "burial site" - are you including the total volume of all 16 “huge mass graves” that you claim - with the utmost certainty - have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Sobibor camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes


When you say "prove" - do you mean prove with the same standard of proof that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 16 extant "huge mass graves" have been proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Sobibor camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

Can you, with the utmost certainty and using the scientific method prove that Sobibor is not the burial site of at least 201,000 jews - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: No as it does contain at least that number of remains


When you say "with the utmost certainty" - is that the same level of certainty that you use to claim 11 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "using the scientific method" - is that the same method that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 11 extant "huge mass graves" have been located / proven to exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "burial site" - are you including the total volume of all 11 “huge mass graves” that you claim - with the utmost certainty - have been located / proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

When you say "prove" - do you mean prove with the same standard of proof that you use to claim - with the utmost certainty - that 11 extant "huge mass graves" have been proven to exist - via the scientific method - within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes

Can you, with the utmost certainty and using the scientific method prove that Treblinka II is not the burial site of at least 813,000 jews - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: No as it does contain at least that number of remains

SFinesilver's questions to Nessie:
#27 - Is it known - with the utmost certainty - that; legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have actually located / proven the existence of numerous discernable / measurable extant mass graves within the boundaries of each of the Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka II camps - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Nessie's - Yes. - or - No. - answer: Yes.

#43 - The MAXIMUM number of the 33 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Belzec identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 33

#44 - The MAXIMUM number of the 33 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Belzec identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the remains of at least 19 people; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 33

#45 - The MAXIMUM number of the 15 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Chelmno identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 15

#46 - The MAXIMUM number of the 15 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Chelmno identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the remains of at least 19 people; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 15

#47 - The MAXIMUM number of the 16 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 16

#48 - The MAXIMUM number of the 16 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the remains of at least 19 people; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 16

#49 - The MAXIMUM number of the 11 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 11

#50 - The MAXIMUM number of the 11 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the remains of at least 19 people; is no less than __?__.

Nessie's single numeric answer: 11

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Nessie
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Re: The Selection Process

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:46 pm
You've "discussed" nothing about any credible Jew witnesses to the events at Treblinka. You've weasel dodged repeatedly.
Your assessment of credibility is simply if they say gassings, mass graves or pyres, they are not credible. Deal with the issues around that here

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4354
Your claim that only a few were "selected for work" at Treblinka and no trainloads of mixed men, women and children left T-II is bullshit. You are trying to weasel dodge that claim.
The known people transported from TII to work elsewhere are listed here;

https://studylib.net/doc/7233192/trebli ... ist-edited

There is a question mark over Kulawy, Seder and Schwartz, as they claim they stayed overnight for a few days at the camp and showered, but there is no where in TII for that to have happened. Malkinia transit camp is most likely where they stayed.

You have dodged that you were very dishonest about "missing" the selection process.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

WillDak
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Re: The Selection Process

Post by WillDak »

Nessie:
Your assessment of credibility is simply if they say gassings, mass graves or pyres, they are not credible.
Your assessment of credibility is on the line here as well Nessie:
Nessie:

As a cop I know the usual mistakes witnesses make, due to the various frailties of memory.

The witnesses at the camps all stated that the bodies were exhumed, cremated and reburied.

I have always said there is proof of mass graves.

I do have proof mass graves were dug at TII.

The contents of the pits are still at the camps.

CS-C, Kola and Haimi have said they have found graves containing remains.

All of those studies found large areas of cremated remains buried in the ground.

The archaeological work done has been scrutinised, cited and accepted by other archaeologists.

I have criminal investigatory, legal and court experience.

I produce forensic, archaeological evidence.

I have accepted the burden of proof.

WillDak
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Re: The Selection Process

Post by WillDak »

Nessie:
Eric Hunt's Treblinka Archaeology Myth video recorded some of them...
https://archive.org/details/TheTreblinkaArchaeologyHoax

I'm sure Eric is very happy that you endorsed his movie Nessie.

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Huntinger
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Re: The Selection Process

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:50 pm
The section process on arrival at the AR camps and A-B is very well known
The point about extermination camps, is that they exterminate people, all of them. No one was selected to leave at say the execution centre Czerwony bor. The exception to the exterminations are the recruitment of sonderkommando to assist the smooth running of the executions. Wiki says about Treblinka :

'A small number of Jewish men who were not killed immediately upon arrival became members of its Sonderkommando'

The same is said about Sobibor:

'The vast majority of prisoners were gassed within a few hours of their arrival. Those not gassed immediately were forced to assist in the operation of the camp'

This is the common consensus it would appear and flies in the fact of the Dutch survivors. Sobibor interviews state:

'Most of the 34,313 deportees were gassed immediately upon arrival. A few hundred prisoners were selected to work in the camp or in neighbouring camps.'

It is this last statement that I believe the poster Nessie is referring to. However, some of these survivors did not just work at a nearby camp but did the grand tour of Poland working at up to 16 konzentrationslager.

Lets look at the story of Judith Eliazar and Bertha Ensel:
  1. Westerbork transit
  2. Sobibor..74 "selected" for work
  3. Majdanek 109 km away
  4. Trawniki
  5. Milejow
  6. Lublin
  7. Auschwitz (walked there)
  8. Bergen Belsen
  9. Buchenwald
  10. Lippstadt
  11. Salzwedel
Any work selections would not be done in an extermination facility but in the transit lagers, which Sobibor was.

The selections at Birkenau are quite different:
According to ramp Kapo Pierre Berg the arrivals are separated by sex, medical experts sort those who can work and those who are sick or elderly. The workers go to the right through the square arch and into quarantine, while the less able are invalided in the hospital section. Does this comply with the written handbook (orders)..lets check.
The Konzentrationslager hand book states the following:
SUPREME.; HEADQUARTER ALLIED EXPEDITIONARY FORCE.,
EVALUATION AND DISSEMINATION SECTION G-2 (Counter Intelligence Sub-Division)

•Grading.OF Prisoners
• According to the document Of September 1940, inmates were specially graded for commitment to different types of camps.

'Stufe la (Grade 1a)-- For all aged persons and those of limited work ability, but who can still be employed in vegetable gardening.

Exceptions to Stufe la are those aged and unfit inmates who require medical, supervision and who, therefore, remain in the
sections provided at the respective camps.

What the Kapo Pierre Berg described at the ramps is compliance with the handbook regulations.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
Amt IV

WillDak
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Re: The Selection Process

Post by WillDak »

Nessie:
Some were selected to work as Sonderkommados in the camps. Others were selected and went to work in other camps such as Majdanek.
Nessie admits that Majdanek was not a death camp here:
Nessie:

Hunt is right to say that Majdanek is corrupted by propaganda and misleading information.... So Majdanek was not a death camp...

viewtopic.php?p=54382#p54382

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