The flaws in denier arguments

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Turnagain
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Turnagain »

Go read MGK's book. The claim is that 2-3,000 cadavers were piled on the magic Jew barbeque. Rajchman said twigs or brush. Another said brushwood doused with gasoline. Wiernik said no fuel at all, just that "a giant torch was lit". NOBODY said anything about a reasonable amount of fuel for cremating up to 3,000 cadavers. Only you claim that trainloads of firewood were shipped into Treblinka. NOBODY said anything about firewood, woodlots or anything at all about trainloads of firewood.

You still haven't explained how the Germans managed to exhume whole bodies with a dragline. You've been shown videos of what a clamshell does and how it operates so let's hear your explanation.

Nessie wrote:
C S-C DID find disturbed ground consistent with mass graves that had been dug into to exhume the bodies.
CS-C found NO excavations consistent with the mass graves as described by the so-called eyewitnesses. She also said that she would return to Treblinka to locate the graves.

There were transports of deportees from Treblinka. You try to weasel dodge that but that's a no-go. Just bullshit you've made up about the deportees not knowing where they were. You claim that the camp inmates made no mention of showers or barracks for the deportees but you have NO reliable Jew eyewitnesses to the atrocities claimed for Treblinka. You tried to claim that Wiernik was a reliable and credible witness but that was a bust. Why should we believe your list of known liars?

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Nessie
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 2:52 pm
Go read MGK's book.
Link to and quote exactly where he debunks the forensic testing.
The claim is that 2-3,000 cadavers were piled on the magic Jew barbeque. Rajchman said twigs or brush. Another said brushwood doused with gasoline. Wiernik said no fuel at all, just that "a giant torch was lit". NOBODY said anything about a reasonable amount of fuel for cremating up to 3,000 cadavers.
Gley said hundreds of bodies and wood was used.
Only you claim that trainloads of firewood were shipped into Treblinka. NOBODY said anything about firewood, woodlots or anything at all about trainloads of firewood.
Explain logically what no witnesses mentioning wood deliveries means.
You still haven't explained how the Germans managed to exhume whole bodies with a dragline.
You are taking the witnesses literally, that whole bodies were exhumed and that it was a dragline that was used.
You've been shown videos of what a clamshell does and how it operates so let's hear your explanation.
You are assuming a clamshell was used.
Nessie wrote:
C S-C DID find disturbed ground consistent with mass graves that had been dug into to exhume the bodies.
CS-C found NO excavations consistent with the mass graves as described by the so-called eyewitnesses. She also said that she would return to Treblinka to locate the graves.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16657363

"...several larger pits were recorded in areas suggested by witnesses as the locations of mass graves and cremation sites. One is 26m long, 17m wide and at least four metres deep, with a ramp at the west end and a vertical edge to the east.Another five pits of varying sizes and also at least this deep are located nearby. Given their size and location, there is a strong case for arguing that they represent burial areas."

That is consistent with mass graves.
There were transports of deportees from Treblinka. You try to weasel dodge that but that's a no-go.
That is consistent with occasional worker selections to go to camps south and west of TII, which is different from regular mass transports east. The same happened at Sobibor and Birkenau.
Just bullshit you've made up about the deportees not knowing where they were. You claim that the camp inmates made no mention of showers or barracks for the deportees but you have NO reliable Jew eyewitnesses to the atrocities claimed for Treblinka. You tried to claim that Wiernik was a reliable and credible witness but that was a bust. Why should we believe your list of known liars?
Because they are corroborated.

Now explain your methodology and why all historians are wrong.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

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Back to taking screenshots due to disappearing posts.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
Gley said hundreds of bodies and wood was used.
Are you saying that Gley told the truth about how the magic Jew barbeque functioned? Be specific as in "yes" or "no".

Now we're back to Nessie's usual mish-mash of whines and demands. Nessie fantasizes trainloads of firewood and whines, "Prove that it didn't happen". He continues to whine about the statements made by the so-called eyewitnesses and why they can't be taken literally. He can't explain how piles of wet guts and body parts can be stacked 20-30 bodies high on the magic Jew barbeque but that's what happened...or something.
You are assuming a clamshell was used.
Are you saying that a bridle bucket was used to exhume the Jews? From, "A Year in Treblinka":
The cremation of corpses had been going on in Camp No. 2 while we had been away, but as there were so many of them, the end was not yet in sight. Two more machines for exhuming corpses were brought in, additional fire grates were constructed and the work was speeded up. The fire grates took up almost the entire yard.
Wiernik claimed that a total of three (3) excavators were used to exhume the cadavers. Another "eyewitness" said there were four (4).
That is consistent with mass graves.
That isn't even close to 10-12X25-30X50 meter graves. Neither did CS-C report any cremains buried in the rabbit holes.

Nessie goes on with his usual "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" but fails to see that trainloads of deportees being sent away from Treblinka is consistent with Jews also being sent to "the east". What is or isn't "consistent" depends entirely on Nessie's narrative.

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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:14 pm
Nessie goes on with his usual "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" but fails to see that trainloads of deportees being sent away from Treblinka is consistent with Jews also being sent to "the east". What is or isn't "consistent" depends entirely on Nessie's narrative.
Is there any point in responding to his posts. :?: Everything he says is regurgitated previous posts with no new content.
You know, I know and so does everyone else this man (or whatever) has little interest in the complexity of the War, the duplicity of Soviet and Jüdische intentions, or the quest for truth.

He is only interested in ramming down a long debunked narrative. This one is no historian.

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Turnagain
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

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Huntinger wrote:
Is there any point in responding to his posts. :?:
Not much. It's something to do, though.

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Nessie
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 11:14 pm
Nessie wrote:
Gley said hundreds of bodies and wood was used.
Are you saying that Gley told the truth about how the magic Jew barbeque functioned? Be specific as in "yes" or "no".
Yes. All of the witnesses agree, the pyres were wood under a grate with the bodies on top and once the wood had set the bodies on fire, the bodies kept burning. The only disagreement is over how much wood was used and how many bodies were on each pyre.
Now we're back to Nessie's usual mish-mash of whines and demands. Nessie fantasizes trainloads of firewood and whines, "Prove that it didn't happen".
Explain the logic in your argument that because no witness mentioned wood deliveries, there were no wood deliveries. Because that argument is a logical non sequitur, the conclusion does not follow the premise. It is not unreasonable that since no witness was specifically asked about wood deliveries and we know wood was delivered for building, that wood was also delivered for the pyres.
He continues to whine about the statements made by the so-called eyewitnesses and why they can't be taken literally. He can't explain how piles of wet guts and body parts can be stacked 20-30 bodies high on the magic Jew barbeque but that's what happened...or something.
You are assuming a clamshell was used.
Are you saying that a bridle bucket was used to exhume the Jews?
No. You can ask me as many questions as you want, the answer is we do not know the make, model and type of excavator and exactly how the bodies were exhumed.
From, "A Year in Treblinka":
The cremation of corpses had been going on in Camp No. 2 while we had been away, but as there were so many of them, the end was not yet in sight. Two more machines for exhuming corpses were brought in, additional fire grates were constructed and the work was speeded up. The fire grates took up almost the entire yard.
Wiernik claimed that a total of three (3) excavators were used to exhume the cadavers. Another "eyewitness" said there were four (4).
So what? The witnesses agree excavators were used, they disagree on how many. If a group of deniers witnessed something and then were asked many years later to recollect what they saw, they would vary in the details. The same applies to all witnesses. The witnesses from the camps are doing nothing unusual when they vary in details.
That is consistent with mass graves.
That isn't even close to 10-12X25-30X50 meter graves.
It is 4m, because that is how deep the GPR went, by 17m wide by 26m long. That is a third of the smaller estimate and half of the higher estimate. The conclusion is that, unsurprisingly, the witnesses over-estimated the size of the graves. The survey has corroborated the other evidence and proved that the Nazis were digging large pits at TII.
Neither did CS-C report any cremains buried in the rabbit holes.
You know why that is. If you don't you have never bothered to read the survey report and that makes your attempt to criticise it laughable and seriously pathetic.
Nessie goes on with his usual "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" but fails to see that trainloads of deportees being sent away from Treblinka is consistent with Jews also being sent to "the east". What is or isn't "consistent" depends entirely on Nessie's narrative.
Small irregular transports going west or south is the opposite of large regular transports going east. :lol:

Since the small irregular transports left evidence, it is physically impossible that the large regular transports could have happened without leaving any evidence. Only denier la-la land demands belief in what is not evidenced, over what is evidenced and has to dodge answering numerous questions about its methodology.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 1:50 am
Not much. It's something to do, though.
The thread is about flaws in our arguments. Seems the poster Nessie fails to see his obvious issues.
In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads:
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. ... You hypocrite!

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Turnagain
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
Yes. All of the witnesses agree, the pyres were wood under a grate with the bodies on top and once the wood had set the bodies on fire, the bodies kept burning.
LOL! Gley also said that after a while, only bodies were used as fuel to burn the bodies. Amongst other clangers he said that the rails were set on rocks and cross hatched with light rails. Life in holyhoax la-la land.
Explain the logic in your argument that because no witness mentioned wood deliveries, there were no wood deliveries.
Uh-uh. Let's see your proof that trainloads of firewood were delivered to Treblinka.
No. You can ask me as many questions as you want, the answer is we do not know the make, model and type of excavator and exactly how the bodies were exhumed.
Nessie is stumped. How were the graves dug? Musta' been some marvelous mystery machine. How were whole bodies exhumed? Nessie doesn't know. Musta' been them ever so clever but eeevul Narzis what done it.
Since the small irregular transports left evidence, it is physically impossible that the large regular transports could have happened without leaving any evidence.
Whole trainloads of deportees left Treblinka. That's just from a handful of credible eyewitnesses. How does Nessie know that more trainloads of deportees didn't leave Treblinka? He doesn't.

Nessie claims that since nobody who worked in the camp mentioned that there were shower facilities or prisoner barracks then they didn't exist. He also says that just because nobody mentioned seeing any trainloads of firewood arriving doesn't mean that didn't happen. Nessie's claims are very situational. If it agrees with his narrative then it did happen. If it doesn't agree with his narrative then it didn't happen. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.

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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:05 am
Nessie wrote:
Yes. All of the witnesses agree, the pyres were wood under a grate with the bodies on top and once the wood had set the bodies on fire, the bodies kept burning.
LOL! Gley also said that after a while, only bodies were used as fuel to burn the bodies. Amongst other clangers he said that the rails were set on rocks and cross hatched with light rails. Life in holyhoax la-la land.
Your assertion that cannot happen, does not therefore mean it cannot happen. Your argument lacks logic.
Explain the logic in your argument that because no witness mentioned wood deliveries, there were no wood deliveries.
Uh-uh. Let's see your proof that trainloads of firewood were delivered to Treblinka.
Not being able to evidence loads of wood being delivered, does not mean therefore mean no wood was delivered. Your argument lacks logic, again.
No. You can ask me as many questions as you want, the answer is we do not know the make, model and type of excavator and exactly how the bodies were exhumed.
Nessie is stumped. How were the graves dug? Musta' been some marvelous mystery machine. How were whole bodies exhumed? Nessie doesn't know. Musta' been them ever so clever but eeevul Narzis what done it.
Not knowing does not therefore mean no excavator worked at TII, your argument lacks logic. Do you see the pattern yet?
Since the small irregular transports left evidence, it is physically impossible that the large regular transports could have happened without leaving any evidence.
Whole trainloads of deportees left Treblinka. That's just from a handful of credible eyewitnesses.
You do not know that for certain and your methodology for assessing witness credibility is the childish, if you believe it, it is credible.
How does Nessie know that more trainloads of deportees didn't leave Treblinka? He doesn't.
I do, there is no evidence it happened and witnesses to say it did not happen.
Nessie claims that since nobody who worked in the camp mentioned that there were shower facilities or prisoner barracks then they didn't exist. He also says that just because nobody mentioned seeing any trainloads of firewood arriving doesn't mean that didn't happen. Nessie's claims are very situational. If it agrees with his narrative then it did happen. If it doesn't agree with his narrative then it didn't happen. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
No one worked inside the camp noticing that hundreds of thousands of prisoners were showered after they had had all of their property stolen from them, and then put back onto trains (without even clothes) to be transported elsewhere, is not credible.

No one who worked inside the camp noticing deliveries of wood or being asked about them is credible.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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