The flaws in denier arguments

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Nessie
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:13 pm
Nessie wrote:
Logic tells us that if it happened, then it is possible.
Logic tells us if it was impossible then it DIDN'T happen no matter how many so-called witnesses said that it did. Thousands testified to seeing Satan dancing around bonfires with witches. Until the invention of the microscope, disease was caused by bad vapors and earthquakes happened when the gods were angry. Sell such idiocy down the road, Nessie. People who claimed to have seen the magic Jew barbeque in action are either lying or hallucinating. It didn't happen any more than the little boy rode his tricycle to the moon.
What the witnesses are claiming happened is not impossible. It is possible to gas people in chambers built from concrete, bricks, tiles, wood, pipes, valves, hermetic seals and an engine. It is possible to dig big pits. It is possible to cremate on pyres on grates. It does not matter that you cannot figure out to your satisfaction how it was done. This is not about you and what you think.

You cherry-pick some of what some of the witnesses say to invent an impossible narrative, by taking the obvious hyperbole, exaggerations and mistakes as literal. You ignore witnesses who say simply that an excavator was used to dig a pit, or that a few hundred bodies were cremated, not thousands, at a time. You ignore them because they do not say what you want to hear.

The situation gets even worse for you, when it is pointed out that it is you who claims the boy cycled to the moon. Your physically impossible claim of a massive conspiracy which included the Nazis managing to transport and accommodate millions without leaving any evidence, is a claim that lives along with flat earthers in its impossibility.
EVERY examination of the camps have found cremated remains, bits of bone that have been burnt and ash at the camps.

And:
Chelmno, Belzec and Sobibor, which were not covered over, have been subject to extensive surveys using boreholes and surface scrapes which have proved large areas of buried remains.
Show your samples and the results of laboratory testing of those samples. You can't and neither can your charlatans. Finito. End of story.
You want sample and lab testing because it gives you an excuse to ignore the findings of multiple, qualified archaeologists, who all agree that the camps sites contain large areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains and they have all published their results for other academics to assess. The examinations were open to the public, indeed the site at Sobibor had large groups visiting during the work there. The media were given access and allowed to follow what was happening.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4334

Lab testing was done at Sobibor and it confirmed the remains as human, which is as much as testing can do. Testing can identify individuals or the cause of death. All l;ab testing does is confirm what other evidence has already proved, the presence of cremated remains.

You live in a denier la-la land, where you have been easily fooled into believing a hoax.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Turnagain
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

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No, your magic Jew barbeque is an impossibility. Just like exhuming whole bodies with a dragline is an impossibility. Just like your marvelous mystery machine is a fantasy and the hermetically sealed gas chamber is an impossibility. Sell it down the street, Nessie, your "what ifs", "coulda woulda" and bizarre fantasies are nothing but horse frocky. Your unproven claims about human cremains, too.

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Nessie
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:04 am
No, your magic Jew barbeque is an impossibility. Just like exhuming whole bodies with a dragline is an impossibility. Just like your marvelous mystery machine is a fantasy and the hermetically sealed gas chamber is an impossibility. Sell it down the street, Nessie, your "what ifs", "coulda woulda" and bizarre fantasies are nothing but horse frocky. Your unproven claims about human cremains, too.
You have no evidence to prove your claims. Your opinion as to what is possible or not, is irrelevant since your methodology for assessing evidence is so badly flawed.

All archaeologists accept that the evidence found at the camps is sufficient to prove large areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains. Your opinion is unimportant.

It is bizarre that you refuse to believe what is possible to do and then demand belief in what is impossible to do. No wonder you run, crying like a child, from your lack of evidence to prove the AR camps were transit camps and there were regular mass transports east to camps and ghettos to accommodate those people.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:04 am
No, your magic Jew barbeque is an impossibility. Just like exhuming whole bodies with a dragline is an impossibility. Just like your marvelous mystery machine is a fantasy and the hermetically sealed gas chamber is an impossibility. Sell it down the street, Nessie, your "what ifs", "coulda woulda" and bizarre fantasies are nothing but horse frocky. Your unproven claims about human cremains, too.
Your opponent said:
Lab testing was done at Sobibor and it confirmed the remains as human, which is as much as testing can do.
Which part of not understanding that Granny Goldstein cremains were thrown at these sites since the last 40 years. The crime site is hardly pristine.
All archaeologists accept that the evidence found at the camps is sufficient to prove large areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains. Your opinion is unimportant.
The only archaeologists are juden...not independent. This one is grasping at chicken bones.
your lack of evidence to prove the AR camps were transit camps and there were regular mass transports east to camps and ghettos to accommodate those people.
The 461 judenlagers in Latvia were filled with people not ghosts. Oh not everyone moved by train. dudh

𝕸𝖊𝖎𝖓𝖊 𝕰𝖍𝖗𝖊 𝖍𝖊𝖎ß𝖙 𝕿𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊
Amt VI..Ausland-SD

Turnagain
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Turnagain »

Almost missed this. Nessie wrote:
Lab testing was done at Sobibor and it confirmed the remains as human...
What lab testing? As far as I know, Haimi sent only one sample of "reddish earth" to be tested for human cremains. It must have tested negative since Haimi said no more about it and if it had tested positive he would have been shouting it from the rooftops. So, whose sample was lab tested, by whom and where are the results? A pdf version will do quite nicely.

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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
You have no evidence to prove your claims.
Huntinger did the deep dive into the amount of energy required to cremate a human cadaver and the amount of energy available from a burning body once the water has been evaporated. The process is endothermic since it requires more joules of energy to evaporate the water and ignite the corpse than is available from the cadaver itself. You seem to be incapable of comprehending that simple fact. You can't stack cadavers 20-30 bodies high (or more) on a grate, set them on fire with some minor kindling and expect them to cremate themselves as your witnesses claim. Your claim that trainloads of firewood were sent to Treblinka is just your fantasy.

Rant about what "archaeologists" believe to your heart's content. If what they claim is true then they should have no problem showing their laboratory proofs of their claims. Only charlatans would rely on what they claim to have seen. Neither do the claims about "disturbed ground" amount to proof of the mass graves. Ground can be "disturbed" with the application of a garden rake. Let's see some GPR scans.

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Nessie
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 8:34 am
Almost missed this. Nessie wrote:
Lab testing was done at Sobibor and it confirmed the remains as human...
What lab testing? As far as I know, Haimi sent only one sample of "reddish earth" to be tested for human cremains. It must have tested negative since Haimi said no more about it and if it had tested positive he would have been shouting it from the rooftops. So, whose sample was lab tested, by whom and where are the results? A pdf version will do quite nicely.
You are trolling. The earlier lab testing that Mattogno reported was discussed here;

viewtopic.php?p=179984#p179984

and more recently here;

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4354&p=186652&hili ... no#p186652

Just to rub your face in it, here are the results, as quoted by Mattogno again;

https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=19

"Over the whole area of the camp human bones can be found here and there.The purpose of the camp can also be deduced conclusively from oth-er results of the investigations. An opinion prepared by the institute of forensic medicine at the Jagellonian University states that the bones sent there for analysis were human bones. An opinion of the institute of forensic medicine at Cracow indicates that the sand re-moved from the diggings is mixed with bone ashes and fat."

One of the flaws in your arguments is cherry-picking, whereby you conveniently forget evidence that does not suit your narrative and you fool yourself by claiming certain evidence does not exist, when it clearly does.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 9:08 am
Nessie wrote:
You have no evidence to prove your claims.
Huntinger did the deep dive into the amount of energy required to cremate a human cadaver and the amount of energy available from a burning body once the water has been evaporated. The process is endothermic since it requires more joules of energy to evaporate the water and ignite the corpse than is available from the cadaver itself. You seem to be incapable of comprehending that simple fact. You can't stack cadavers 20-30 bodies high (or more) on a grate, set them on fire with some minor kindling and expect them to cremate themselves as your witnesses claim. Your claim that trainloads of firewood were sent to Treblinka is just your fantasy.
As appeals to authority goes, Huntinger is the worst. Just because you deniers do not think it could work, based on your amateur estimations and no experimentation, does not therefore mean no one could ever get a pyre as described to burn.
Rant about what "archaeologists" believe to your heart's content. If what they claim is true then they should have no problem showing their laboratory proofs of their claims. Only charlatans would rely on what they claim to have seen.
You have already shown that when lab tests come back with a result you do not like, you then dismiss that result :lol:
Neither do the claims about "disturbed ground" amount to proof of the mass graves. Ground can be "disturbed" with the application of a garden rake. Let's see some GPR scans.
Here, as you already know about;

https://etheses.bham.ac.uk/id/eprint/35 ... s12PhD.pdf

Go to page 462, section 1.3 Geophysical Survey and then read. We have discussed C S-C results on numerous occasions, stop fooling yourself that we have not been over this. Page 465 shows the area that could be scanned, between the memorials (the memorial for the pyre is the rectangle in the middle) and the trees. Page 470 onwards details all of the finds. You should know by now that I have kept easy access to the evidence you constantly forget about, so I can call you out when you forget and rub your face in it :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3808&p=151220#p151220
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
You are trolling. The earlier lab testing that Mattogno reported was discussed here;
Mattogno quoted the report from the "Central Commission for the Investigation of German Crimes in Poland". He then debunked it. You are either trolling or being exceptionally stupid. One is as likely as the other.
As appeals to authority goes, Huntinger is the worst. Just because you deniers do not think it could work, based on your amateur estimations and no experimentation, does not therefore mean no one could ever get a pyre as described to burn.
Cremation is an endothermic process. You can't cremate 2-3,000 cadavers with twigs, brushwood or camp detritus. Your claim that it "coulda" happened is pure, unadulterated bullshit.

CS-C did NOT find any mass graves. She said that she would return to Treblinka at a later date and find their location. That didn't happen. No graves, no exhumations with a dragline and your magic Jew barbeque is a complete bust. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.

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Nessie
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Re: The flaws in denier arguments

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:04 pm
Nessie wrote:
You are trolling. The earlier lab testing that Mattogno reported was discussed here;
Mattogno quoted the report from the "Central Commission for the Investigation of German Crimes in Poland". He then debunked it. You are either trolling or being exceptionally stupid. One is as likely as the other.
Show me where he debunked it. Directly link and quote and explain how Mattogno has been able to prove the forensic reports are wrong and the remains are not human.
As appeals to authority goes, Huntinger is the worst. Just because you deniers do not think it could work, based on your amateur estimations and no experimentation, does not therefore mean no one could ever get a pyre as described to burn.
Cremation is an endothermic process. You can't cremate 2-3,000 cadavers with twigs, brushwood or camp detritus. Your claim that it "coulda" happened is pure, unadulterated bullshit.
What you have done is take the highest number of bodies and the least amount of wood described by the witnesses and taken those witnesses literally. You ignore the witnesses like Gley who described hundreds of bodies being cremated at a time on a pyre using wood and Stangl who just describes that bodies were cremated on a grill made of rails.

You need to prove that under no circumstance will bodies burn onto of a pyre using wood and a grill. Since it is the same principle as a BBQ or fire pit with a grill, I do not believe your claim.
CS-C did NOT find any mass graves. She said that she would return to Treblinka at a later date and find their location. That didn't happen. No graves, no exhumations with a dragline and your magic Jew barbeque is a complete bust. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
C S-C DID find disturbed ground consistent with mass graves that had been dug into to exhume the bodies.

Yet again, you dodge the physical impossibility of your claim of regular mass transports back out of the camp and subsequent accommodation of c840,000 people without leaving any evidence. Your claim is physically impossible. You fail to understand the huge difference between how a witness describes something and something that is actually physically impossible. Intelligent people understand the difference.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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