New to Holocaust revisionism

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been-there
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Re: New to Holocaust revisionism

Post by been-there »

FascistLove wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:18 pm
...Also, I said I had never read any Holocaust revisionists books, not that I haven’t read any books. Been-there created a straw man argument and personally insulted me. ...I’m out of here!
Yeah. And I responded to that admission you have never read any revisionist books.
That's what I commented on.
So... You are quite clearly a person of unfortunately low intelligence PLUS are dishonestly posing as someone interested in the revisionist arguments when you are not.

When you come back with your next sock-puppet account, just engage in dialogue honestly. And don't deceitfully pretend to be something you are not. :ugeek:
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Huntinger
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Re: New to Holocaust revisionism

Post by Huntinger »

been-there wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:38 am
When you come back with your next sock-puppet account, just engage in dialogue honestly. And don't deceitfully pretend to be something you are not. :ugeek:
I doubt if that is possible. The guru Peter Longerich seems to have fascination to entrap these clones. There is no lineage to the name so it is suspected it is altered to hide something Hasidic. Is this jude worthy of discussion? What authority does he have except his own biases.? A "man of the quarter century " to support all Hasidic Hoaxers. :?:


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Re: New to Holocaust revisionism

Post by Nessie »

FascistLove wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:18 pm
Nessie, do people who post on here pretend to be experts of the German language?

For example, been-there is trying to claim that “Judentum” only means “Judaism” when in fact it can also mean “Jews” collectively and the fact Hitler said “Judentums” (plural), he was quite clearly talking about Jews as a people, not Judaism the religion.

Also, I said I had never read any Holocaust revisionists books, not that I haven’t read any books. Been-there created a straw man argument and personally insulted me.

Those two types of dishonesty from been-there are two reasons why people don’t listen to “Holocaust revisionists” these days.

Anyway, good luck “debating” with such dishonest people, I’m out of here!
Yes, people pretend to be able to speak and read German. Plagiarism is rife. Tropes are wheeled out with monotonous regularity. Most denier arguments are logical fallacies and they think that if they can dispute some of the evidence for gassings, based mostly on the way a witnesses said something, then they can dismiss all the evidence. They then claim being asked to evidence their beliefs is a reversal of the burden of proof. Anti-Semitism and a love of conspiracy theories is the driving forces behind their agenda to promote fake history.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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been-there
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Re: PRETENDING to be new to Holocaust revisionism

Post by been-there »

FascistLove wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:18 pm
...been-there is trying to claim that “Judentum” only means “Judaism” when in fact it can also mean “Jews” collectively and the fact Hitler said “Judentums” (plural), he was quite clearly talking about Jews as a people, not Judaism the religion
As I am interested in truth and accuracy, I welcome correction.
So... This otherwise dishonest and deceiving sock-puppet has claimed that Judentum in the quoted context can mean 'Judaism' and can also mean 'Jews'.
Is that accurate?

I lived in Dortmund as a teenager and in my late-twenties I worked in a Vegetarian restaurant/pub in Augsburg. But my German was only rudimentarily conversational.

After my recent post I have had it confirmed from what I regard as a trustworthy authority that
sondern daß das Ergebnis dieses Krieges die Vernichtung des Judentums sein wird.
translates as: but that the result of this war will be the annihilation of Judaism.

According to this confirming source, if Adolf had meant 'the Jews' as a complete people he would have said: der Juden
As in: “aber dass das Ergebnis dieses Krieges die Vernichtung der Juden sein wird."

Anyone with better German than mine care to comment? ;)

Whatever. This appears to me to be semantic quibbling. Whether Adolf said and meant Judaism as a religion or 'the Jews' as a people it comes to the same thing.
The point is HOW that was intended to be achieved and HOW it WAS attempted to be achieved. Was that Judenrein Europe planned and partly-implemented policy to be achieved by removal and forced exile? Or by genocide through peculiarly ad hoc (improvised) and hopelessly impractical methods of mass-gassing?
been-there wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:32 pm
FascistLove wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:25 pm
Hitler threatened the extermination of the Jews of Europe if they caused a world war in his notorious Reichstag speech in January 1939.
Wrong. He never said he would "exterminate" them. You appear to be approaching this topic from a position of arrogant ignorance.

FascistLove wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:25 pm
Hitler mentioned this again in the 1940s and said that the war would bring about the extermination of the Jews and not the extermination of the Aryans.
...Firstly, anyone who wants to properly understand WW2 history has to acknowledge that in war the first casualty is the truth.
...The natural corollary of this acknowledgement is that anyone who genuinely wants to find the impartial truth must discern between what information relies on self-justifying propaganda and what relies on accurate, impartial relaying of historical fact.
This applies to everything concerning WW2 in general, but in particular to the occurrences now collectively referred to as 'THE Holocaust'.
...Now coming to your false understanding of Hitler's prophesies and statements concerning the fate of European Jews.
WW2 history as it is currently enforced, makes great issue of Adolf Hitler's reference to a previous 'prophecy' concerning the Jews in a widely-transmitted speech in the Reichstag on 30 January 1942.
Wir sind uns dabei im klaren darüber, daß der Krieg nur damit enden kann, daß entweder die germanische Völker ausgerottet werden, oder daß das Judentum aus Europa verschwindet. Ich habe am 3. September im Deutschen Reichstag es schon ausgesprochen -- und ich hüte mich vor voreiligen Prophezeiungen -, daß dieser Krieg nicht so ausgehen wird, wie es sich die Juden vorstellen, nämlich daß die europäisch-arischen Völker ausgerottet werden, sondern daß das Ergebnis dieses Krieges die Vernichtung des Judentums ist. Zum erstenmal werden nicht andere allein verbluten sondern zum ersten mal wird diesesmal das echt altjüdische Gesetz angewendet: „Aug' um Aug', Zahn um Zahn!"
Und je weiter sich dieser Kampf ausbreitet, um so mehr wird sich mit diesem Kampf--das mag sich das Weltjudentum gesagt sein lassen--der Antisemitismus verbreiten. Er wird eine Nahrung finden in jedem Gefangenenlager, er wird eine Nahrung finden in jeder Familie, die aufgeklärt wird, warum sie letzten Endes ihr Opfer zu bringen hat. Und es wird die Stunde kommen, da der böseste Weltfeind aller Zeiten wenigstens vielleicht auf ein Jahrtausend seine Rolle ausgespielt haben wird.
It is clear to us that the war can only end with the eradication of the Germanic peoples or the disappearance of Jewry from Europe. I had on September 3rd already announced in the German Reichstag (and I am careful not to make rash prophecies) that this this war will not develop as the Jews imagine it, namely that the European-Aryan peoples be eradicated, but that the outcome of this war will be the destruction of Judaism. For the first time others will not bleed alone, but for the first time the genuine, old Jewish law will be applied: “An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth!”
And the more this war spreads, the more anti-Semitism will spread. This may be said to world Jewry: anti-Semitism will be nourished in every prison camp, in every family which must be informed why they must sacrifice to the bitter end. And the hour will come when the most evil world enemy of all times will have played out its role for perhaps a thousand years at least.
Here is the oft repeated part of that speech in the actual German spoken:
"Ich habe am 1. September 1939 im Deutschen Reichstag es schon augesprochen (und ich hüte mich vor voreiligen Prophzeihungen) daß dieser Krieg nicht so ausgehen wird, wie es sich die Juden vorstellen, nämlich daß die europäisch-arischen Völker ausgerottet werden, sondern daß das Ergebnis dieses Krieges die Vernichtung des Judentums sein wird."
But when did "die Juden vorstellen... daß die europäisch-arischen Völker ausgerottet werden"?

Which idea exactly was Hitler referring to with: "the Jews imagine that the European-Aryan peoples will be rooted out (ausgerottet)"?

What in reality was the type of action that was actually being proposed of a people being rooted-out or eradicated (“Völker ausgerottet”) which Hitler said would be applied instead to the the ones who first proposed it?

An open and honest evaluation of the history would attempt to put this statement in its appropriate context.

Had there been a call by any Jew or Jewish collective for such an ausrottung?

This is where Kaufman's 1941 book comes in. It was an example of Jewish racist and genocidal attitudes that were seriously considered in American government and was widely publicised in media periodicals (e.g. New York Times, New York Post, Time magazine, The Canadian Jewish Chronicle, etc., etc.,).

Image

And crucially, the Jew Kaufman's proposal and appeal was not a call for mass-murder.
It was a call for the elimination by sterilisation and dispersion/exile of the German people!

Kaufman summarised Germany Must Perish! in the New York Times and New York Post advertisements as: "
A dynamic volume outlining a plan for the extinction of Germany and containing a map showing possible dissection and apportionment of its territory."
An interview with Kaufman in which he attempts to justify his plan for the elimination appears in The Canadian Jewish Chronicle in its September 26, 1941 issue, in which Kaufman stated:
"I believe, that the Jews have a mission in life. They must see to it that the nations of the world get together in one vast federation. 'Union Now' is the beginning of this. Slowly but surely the world will develop into a paradise. We will have perpetual peace. And the Jews will do the most to bring about this confederation, because they have the most to gain. But how can you get peace if Germany exists? The only way to win an eternal peace is to make the punishment of waging war more horrible than war itself. Human beings are penalised for murder, aren't they? Well, Germany starts all the wars of magnitude. Let us sterilize all Germans and wars of world domination will come to an end!"
Hitler had prophesised:
daß dieser Krieg nicht so ausgehen wird, wie es sich die Juden vorstellen, nämlich daß die europäisch-arischen Völker ausgerottet werden, sondern daß das Ergebnis dieses Krieges die Vernichtung des Judentums sein wird."
= "that this war will be not so, as the Jews imagine it, namely that the European-Aryan peoples be eradicated, but that the outcome of this war will be the destruction of Judaism."

See that? 'JUDAISM'. Not Jews. Not "the extermination of all individual Jews" as we are forcibly indoctrinated.

"...sondern daß das Ergebnis dieses Krieges die Vernichtung des Judentums sein wird."
= "...but that the outcome of this war will be the destruction of Judaism."

An honest investigator would regard as extremely relevant to a proper appraisal of Hitler's January 1942 speech the fact that there had been a call by a Jew — which had been widely publicised by Jewish owned newspapers/periodicals — calling for the elimination of Germany and Germans in March 1941. Yet this is never mentioned in current histories. Why is that?
The Hitler referral in 1942, to Jews wanting to eliminate his people is presented to us as anti-semitic paranoia. This is therefore a deceit by omission. A lie!

For me, this demonstrates the deceit of people such as Richard J. Evans in the Irving libel case (and this while under oath to be honest in a court of law).
And it also demonstrates in my opinion, the corruption of English courts at Irving's trial, that such obvious subjective and manipulative interpretation — taken out of their historical context — of speeches and statements spoken in German, were used to demolish the credibilty and livlihood of Irving, a British citizen accused of manipulative interpretation of German texts.
Oh, the Orwellian irony of it all.

.. .. .. .. .. ..

The message sent by Hitler on the anniversary of the foundation of the party:
"Botschaft zum Tage der Parteigründung 24. Februar 1942" states the following:
"nach der Beseitigung dieser Parasiten" = "the removal of these parasites"
REMOVAL! Moving. Not killing. This is exactly why any honest investigator needs to look at the vernacular version of these statements. Not rely on possibly biased translations.

This is confirmed in the transcripts of Hitler's table talks:
Wenn ich heute den juden herausnehme, dann wird unser Bürgertum unglücklich: was geschieht denn mit ihnen? Aber haben sich die Gleichen darum gekümmert, was aus den Deutschen werden würde, die auswandern mussten?... Der Jude muss aus Europa heraus. Wir kriegen sonst keine europäische Verständigung. Er hetzt am meisten überall. Letzten Endes: ich weiss nicht, ich bin kolossal human. ... Ich sage nur, er muss weg. Wenn er dabei kaputt geht, da kann ich nicht helfen. Ich sehe nur eines: die absolute Ausrottung, wenn sie nicht freiwillig gehen. Warum soll ich einen Juden mit anderen Augen ansehen als einen russischen Gefangenen? Im Gefangenenlager sterben Viele, weil wir durch die Juden in diese Lage hineingetrieben sind. Aber was kann denn ich dafür? Warum haben die Juden denn den Krieg angezettelt?'
-- Hitler table talk on 25.1.1942, recorded by H. Heim;
"If I take the Jews out today, then our bourgeoisie becomes unhappy: ‘what is happening then with them?’
But have the same people troubled themselves about what would become of the Germans who had to emigrate?
The Jew has to get out of Europe. Otherwise we get no European understanding. He incites people the most, everywhere.
...In the end: I don't know, I'm colossally humane.
...I am just saying, he has to go. If he collapses in the course of it, I can't help there. I only see one thing: absolute rooting-out, if they don't go of their own accord. Why should I look at a Jew with other eyes than at a Russian prisoner of war? Many are dying in the prison camps because we have been driven into this situation by the Jews. But what can I do about that? Why then did the Jews instigate the war?"
This makes it clear that the object is driving the Jews out of Europe.
He compares what he is doing to Jews with Germans forced to 'emigrate' (auswandern).
He said that if Jews die in the process as Russians also are dying in the camps, that is the outcome of war, NOT a deliberate policy.
He specifically states that he DOES NOT regard the Jew in a camp any differently than a Russian POW in a camp. That flatly contradicts the whole Holocaust paradigm.
"Im Gefangenenlager sterben Viele... Aber was kann denn ich dafür? Warum haben die Juden denn den Krieg angezettelt?"
"Many die in the prison camp... But what can I do about that? Why then did the Jews instigate the war?"
I.e. the deaths in camps is not something he is creating or ordering. Nor is it a policy directed against only Jews. People dying (not being 'killed') he said was a regrettable outcome of the war situation. A war he felt was forced upon him. A war he believed was instigated by certain 'international Jews'.

An open and honest enquiry would investigate why Hitler was convinced that Jews had "started" (angezettelt) the war.
An open and honest research would investigate if there is any basis in fact for such an understanding.
An open and honest history would include any reasons Hitler might have had for believing that.
An open and honest analysis would not delete any evidence that Jews had been involved in starting the war from our history.

An open and honest society would CERTAINLY not punish referring to such irrefutable evidence that Jews had been involved in starting the war, as an 'anti-semitic, Nazi hate trope'

CONCLUSION: we do not currently have an honest and open history, or society!!
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Nessie
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Re: New to Holocaust revisionism

Post by Nessie »

Did Hitler say "that this war will be not so, as the Jews imagine it, namely that the European-Aryan peoples be eradicated, but that the outcome of this war will be the destruction of Judaism." Or did he say something else, as reported by various sources such as;

https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/RESOURCE ... CJEWQN.HTM

" Adolph Hitler speaking to a crowd at the Sports Palace in Berlin, 30 January 1942.
...
And we say that the war will not end as the Jews imagine it will, namely with the uprooting of the Aryans, but the result of this war will be the complete annihilation of the Jews."

Or did he say both, speaking at different times?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: New to Holocaust revisionism

Post by Huntinger »

What Herr Hitler may have said in a public speech has nothing to do with an order, a topic secret memo to exterminate a group of people.
Image


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Re: New to Holocaust revisionism

Post by Clay »

FascistLove:
Thus, Hitler was kept informed about what was happening to the Jews in the East.
What exactly was happening to the jews in the East that Hitler was being informed about?

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Re: New to Holocaust revisionism

Post by Clay »

Clay wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:04 pm
FascistLove:
Thus, Hitler was kept informed about what was happening to the Jews in the East.
What exactly was happening to the jews in the East that Hitler was being informed about?
FascistLove, are you still doing research on the question I asked you? You're not confused about the question are you? It seemed like such a simple question that I'm surprised you ignored it. Maybe you just got busy and haven't been able to respond? In any case, I hope you can find the time to respond as I'm interested in what you may have uncovered about this subject.

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Re: New to Holocaust revisionism

Post by Huntinger »

Clay wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:14 pm
FascistLove, I hope you can find the time to respond as I'm interested in what you may have uncovered about this subject.
There is unlikely to be a response coming soon Clay; it seems that FL saw his own doppelganger in a mirror. one of many which frightened him; ghosts of the past returning to haunt. In response he has fled.
FascistLove wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:18 pm
I’m out of here!


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Re: New to Holocaust revisionism

Post by Clay »

FascistLove;
...as far as I know Holocaust revisionism is for the most part only online so some people are just denying everything and making claims without evidence
Like your unsubstantiated allegation that "Hitler was kept informed about what was happening to the jews in the East"?

I would think that this would be a golden opportunity for you to show other "revisionists" what your personal research has uncovered. But rather than doing so, you cravenly tucked tail and ran away like a scared little girl the first time you were challenged to show us what you've discovered.

Strange behavior for a "revisionist" - but not so strange for a lying coward.

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